| DCJPS000 | X | u | (No name, age unknown) unspecified |
| DCJPS001 | X | u | (No name, age unknown) unspecified |
| DCJPSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| DCJPSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| (DCJPS000) |
[1] Right erm ... yeah ... look at the congress. [2] Just wanna wrap this up now ... erm by bringing in the erm example of Greece. [3] Er the er er ... Greek revolt. [4] Erm ... just to recap on that slightly. [5] It started round about eighteen twenty one although actually there there'd been erm er simmering discontent in the ... amongst the ... Christians in the Balkan area for some time. [6] We we needn't worry too much that thought but erm the Greek revolt itself in eighteen twenty to one to round about eighteen twenty five ... had gone on without any European intervention. [7] To some extent ... this was due to the influence of the er of of [...] . [8] Erm ... who was able to hold er the Russians back from intervening on the grounds that it would be er seen as intervention in a er in in in a revolt. [9] Erm ... the revolt is of course essentially a nationalist revolt. [10] I suppose there are liberal overtones in it but it's essentially a nationalist revolt. [11] After eighteen twenty five of course erm the death of Alexandria especially of Nicholas ... Russia is more inclined to intervene especially as the Greek rebels are being defeated because of the mention the intervention of ... of erm Turkey's ally erm er Egypt ... Egypt [...] a a a a problem for the Turkish empire [...] . [12] The ruler of Egypt Mohammed Ali intervened in the revolt on behalf of Turkey with the promise of ... territory in the area. [13] Erm ... and the revolt begins to er er er crumble. [14] Erm ... so Russia decides to intervene and at this point ... erm ... [...] is especially concern of Britain. [15] And the upshot is that in eighteen twenty six ... Britain suggests in essence holding a congress to discuss the er er Greek revolt. [16] Erm Britain and France are very concerned about the prospect of Russian intervention. [17] ... Erm ... And in essence a kind of congress is held at St Petersburg. [18] It's not trotted out in the old history books as one of the conferences, or one of the congresses rather. [19] In fact it's, it's more often referred to correctly as a conference. [20] Erm it consisted of the ambassadors of the great, of the, of of the great powers erm er meeting together ... at St Petersburg. [21] Erm ... it's ... there's a certain irony about all this. [22] ... As we know erm Canning had ... to a great extent welcomed the end of the congress system. [23] His famous comment about things are back to as they should be ... every nation for herself and god for us all. [24] Erm ... but in twenty six he in a sense does a U turn. [25] And he's concerned to get great power co-operation ... to solve the Greek er er problem. [26] The other irony is of course that up until at the previous congresses like Verona erm ... [...] Britain hadn't attended. [27] At this one Austria doesn't attend. [28] And same, well and and Prussia as well for that matter but they're not so, so important. [29] At this conference the great powers involved are Britain, Russia and France. [30] ... Of course the other irony as well is that the powers that meet at the conference at St Petersburg ... er the powers decide they will intervene in Greece. [31] And they're intervening of course here on the side of a revolt which is ... going against the grain of erm of ... certainly for Russia of course of er of of the attitudes of the eighteen erm ... er eighteen teens early eighteen twenties. [32] ... The idea was basically to produce some kind of semi-independent Greece. [33] Er ... of course as we know or we might, some of us might know from er Brit. [34] his. [35] that erm from British History that erm in eighteen er ... erm the Turks refused to co-operate in this. [36] And erm in when was it eighteen twenty seven at the Battle of Navareno the British navy sunk the Turkish fleet. [37] Erm thus to a great extent erm ending the erm er ... the prospects of Turkish success. |
| (DCJPS001) |
[38] What what was that battle again? |
| (DCJPS000) |
[39] Navareno. [40] Navar Avokea or Navareno Bay erm ... it's more, I think it's more technically known as Avokea ... See if they've got a reference to the [...] . [41] Oops. [42] ... Oh no it is Nav I'm I'm sorry. [43] I'm confused aren't I? [44] It is Navareno. [45] ... Yeah erm ... again you needn't worry too much about the er erm about the ... ramifications of this [...] Kenning died in twenty seven and Britain to some extent disentangled herself from the Greek revolt but the upshot was that in eighteen thirty Greece became an independent state. [46] Her independence guaranteed by Britain, Russia ... and France. [47] ... Okay erm ... I suppose we ought to mention in this context as well er Belgium. [48] ... I'll probably refer to it again later on [...] . [49] Er in Belgium of course in eighteen thirty erm a nationalist revolt broke out ... in response really to the French revolution of that year. [50] Which we'll be looking at briefly in a sec. [51] Erm ... this was a direct challenge to the Vienna settlement of course. [52] As we know at the Vienna settlement, Belgium was put under er er er er essentially under Dutch rule. [53] ... Erm Britain and France were prepared to defend Belgian independence. [54] The other powers were er at odds with Britain and France ... ie Austria, Russia ... Prussia. [55] So again we see a split ... in the er in in in amongst the great powers. [56] What? |
| Unknown speaker (DCJPSUNK) |
[57] I just [...] |
| (DCJPS000) |
[58] It's Britain and France were prepared to support Belgian independence. [59] Erm Russia, Prussia ... Austria not. [60] And we are seeing in eighteen thirty ... a significant gap between on the one hand erm ... the western powers and on the other hand the east european or the central and eastern european powers. [61] ... In eighteen thirty of course, the east european powers were unable erm er to intervene. [62] Er Russia had erm a revolt in Poland to face. [63] Austria faced disturbances in Italy. [64] ... Prussia of course couldn't really act by herself. [65] But we are seeing a widening gap. [66] ... And indeed erm in the eighteen thirties we see the formation in the west of the so called quadruple alliance not to be confused with the great quadruple alliance of eighteen er thirteen. [67] The quadruple alliance consisted of Britain, France, Spain and Portugal which had by now got ... sort of liberal constitutional governments. |
| Unknown speaker (DCJPSUNK) | [...] |
| (DCJPS000) |
[68] Well it's erm it's erm ... it's about, I think it's about eighteen thirty three thirty four. [69] Doesn't really matter. [70] It's the earliest, er early eighteen thirties. [71] And on the other hand, Austria, Russia and er Prussia ... [...] it's Munchengratz isn't it. [72] [...] forgetting me er me Munchen ... Yep. [73] ... In fact they may even have a date for you here. [74] Yeah eighteen thirty three Munchengratz. [75] ... It's an agreement ... to defend each other against the threat of revolution. [76] ... Yep. [77] Erm ... So we are seeing by er the early eighteen thirties something of a formalized split between the er ... er the powers of er ... the quadruple and then the er quintsimple erm er alliance. [78] I'm referring obviously to the quadruple alliance of eighteen er er fifteen. [79] ... Okay perhaps we can er er wrap a few things up on the erm on the er Vienna er settlement and the congress system itself. |
| Unknown speaker (DCJPSUNK) |
[80] What actually happened in Belgium? |
| (DCJPS000) |
[81] Belgium became independent. [82] Sorry yeah. [83] Belgium became independent. [84] Erm it's ind , it's independence was recognized fully by all the major European powers by eighteen thirty nine. [85] ... It was regarded as erm it was one of Palmerston's, one of Palmerston's great triumphs wasn't it? [86] ... Isn't it the case that Palmerston when he was on his death bed had the clause to the Belgian treaty read to him to cheer him up. [87] ... Okay erm ... let's perhaps make a few comments then about the Vienna settlement ... itself. [88] ... The old er the old kind of chestnut question ... is was it a success or a failure? [89] I I I'd say with the, with the revamped exam you're not likely, you're not likely to get a question like that. [90] Was Vienna successful? [91] But you're gonna get a much wider question if it comes up on this and erm perhaps in incorporating the congress system but let's approach it from that, that perspective anyway. [92] ... I think the best way of looking at this ... is to kind of take an open-ended version of what the Vienna settlement is all about. [93] Er not just the treaty ... in eighteen fifteen but the whole congress system erm ... after eighteen fifteen onwards and into the eighteen twenties and such like. [94] ... Erm ... I suppose the er ... the classic interpretation of the er the Vienna settlements is that erm ... in ... in the nineteenth century was that it was a failure and there was a, there was a kind of er consensus ... beginning quite early actually. [95] There's a kind of consensus view that in the language of ten sixty six and all that the Vienna settlement was a bad thing. [96] Erm and I say this view is, is in some respects being er erm er expressed relatively early on. [97] Erm and you even get it associated with leading rulers or states er statesmen of the day. [98] For instance erm ... somebody like Napoleon the Third. [99] He emerged as president of France as Prince Louis Napoleon in eighteen forty eight and he er he erm achieves power by coup d'etat and becomes ... emperor in eighteen fifty two. [100] Napoleon the Third is someone who's er who sees it as one of his objectives to undo the Vienna settlement. [101] ... Erm and you've got other leading figures of the day. [102] ... Count Cavor prime minister of Piedmont in eighteen er fifty. [103] Erm and someone who's described as perhaps one of the architects of Italian unity. [104] He becomes the prime minister of ... of a relatively united Italy erm in eighteen er eighteen sixty. [105] Cavor is someone who's er |
| Unknown speaker (DCJPSUNK) | [...] |
| (DCJPS000) |
[106] Right. [107] ... Cavor is someone who's hostile ... er to the Vienna settlement. [108] Let alone of course large numbers of liberal stroke nationalist erm revolutionaries within Europe in the eighteen er twenties, thirties and forties. [109] The various national secret societies and various nationalist movements like er Young Italy and ... there's even one called Young Europe which is kind of a pretty, pretty much catch-all one. [110] But the various nationalist societies or the revolutionary ... purpose. [111] They're all hostile to the Vienna settlement. [112] And that perhaps er having mentioned the nationalist erm societies this perhaps gives us a clue to it. [113] The the view was taken ... that the Vienna settlement was hostile to liberalism and nationalism. [114] ... That was the view taken that the Vienna settlement was hostile to liberalism. [115] It was hostile to nationalism. [116] ... And therefore it was wrong ... because the argument goes that liberalism and nationalism are the great triumphant er ideologies of the nineteenth century and the Vienna settlement's not only wrong, but it was historically erm in a sense doomed because it was trying to oppose the growing erm unstoppable er ideologies of er erm of er of Europe. [117] ... By the way erm it's always rather amusing when you see in the old history books the er the idea that erm ... that, to give an example, somebody like Metternich. [118] You get the old idea that Metternich ignored liberalism and nationalism. [119] Erm ... that's a very, a very misleading way of putting it. [120] Metternich in many ways thought of little else except liberalism and nationalism. [121] The Vienna settlement didn't ignore liberalism and nationalism. [122] It tried its best to clobber it. [123] It tried its best to actually er suppress it. [124] ... And don't forget ... erm perhaps we ought to say a word on the er on the conservative's side here. [125] Erm don't forget it's people like Metternich and indeed Castlereagh and the other erm er figures at the Vienna settlement. [126] They were looking back in eighteen fifteen ... at twenty odd years of war and revolution. [127] And if that was ... you know you could, I supp , you could argue that the French revolution had been built on notions of liberalism and it had encouraged nationalism in Europe. [128] And therefore you could associate liberalism and nationalism with war, terror erm ... and perhaps therefore it wasn't all that desirable. [129] ... Obviously as well in Metternich's er er, in Metternich's case ... nationalism would be the end of the Austrian empire. [130] Because the Austrian empire, the Habsburg empire was a conglomeration of large numbers of different nationalities. [131] ... Nationalism affected other great powers as well. [132] Erm Russia ... Russia in eighteen fifteen grabbed Poland. [133] Prussia had, still had chunks of Polish territory ... little bits of it. [134] ... Prussia of course more especially ... more especially Prussia feared a united Germany. [135] If you brought, if you got a united Germany then Prussia would simply be a small part of that united Germany. [136] So it's important to note that nationalism ... the prospect of nationalism ... was seen as undesirable by the er ... major European powers. [137] It didn't ... nationalism had no erm wouldn't affect France as such. [138] ... Didn't affect Britain. [139] Well it affected Ireland. [140] There was always the problem of Ireland. [141] I think it's a bit wrong perhaps to say it didn't affect Britain. [142] Perhaps it didn't affect Britain at this time. [143] But as we know from British history one of the understated reasons why erm there was a lot of hostility to home rule for Ireland in Britain was because of the fear of the creation of a hostile state [...] er erm off, off Britain's shore. [144] ... Erm ... so that's one aspect of Vienna. [145] It was seen as being opposed to liberalism, as opposed to nationalism and perhaps there were, there were er, there were, there were good reasons er for that. [146] ... By the way erm are we relatively clear what's meant by liberalism and nationalism within this context? [147] ... Should I perhaps digress and say a little word erm er about this? [148] Perhaps I will. [149] ... It's perhaps of some interest to us that erm these to great -isms, liberalism and nationalism ... I think we can see them as products of the French revolution. [150] Or indeed products of perhaps ... enlightened attitudes, certainly with the case of liberalism. [151] ... In a sense, if we think of the context of say the late ... eighteenth early nineteenth century ... perhaps more, perhaps more specifically we think of the er, of the er ... erm early nineteenth century. [152] Liberalism and nationalism are seen as two sides of the same coin. [153] They were seen as inextricably bound up. [154] Erm all liberals were nationalists. [155] And to er, I suppose by and large, vice versa as well. [156] ... Erm as I've said the er the the two er known as the two -isms. [157] The two ideologies are by and large products of the revolution or in the case of liberalism perhaps of the ... of enlightened attitudes. [158] By liberalism ... liberalism meant a number of things. [159] It meant primarily constitutional government. [160] ... It meant primarily constitutional government. [161] Written constitutional government. |
| Unknown speaker (DCJPSUNK) | [...] |
| (DCJPS000) |
[162] Liberalism. |
| Unknown speaker (DCJPSUNK) |
[163] Oh. |
| (DCJPS000) |
[164] It meant by and large constitut , it meant, it meant primarily rather constitutional government. [165] Liberals would look to for instance the con the United States' Constitution. [166] They would look to the er er to the constitution of of of France in say seventeen ninety one or the more radicals amongst them would look erm ... the more er the more radical liberal if that's not er, if that's not a, not a contradiction in terms, don't think it is. [167] They would look to the constitution of eighteen, of seventeen ninety three. [168] Others, other in nineteenth century Europe looked to the constitutions granted in eighteen twelve for instance in Spain and in Naples. [169] These aren't er er er ... they tend to be a bit ignored in history, these. [170] But they're of interest. [171] In eighteen, in in late eighteen twelve ... erm with the prospect perhaps of Napoleonic rule in difficulties ... you see in some of Napoleon's, some of the client states of ... Napoleonic Europe ... Spain, Naples ... you see constitutions being granted ... which are are pretty democratic actually. [172] And th the they're looked to by er European liberals as ... as model constitutions. [173] ... When you get a revolt in Spain ... in the eighteen twenties. [174] ... What is the revolt in favour of? [175] The revolt is in favour of the constitution of eighteen twelve. [176] ... So they believe in constitutional governments. [177] Erm now obviously ... in the context of constitutional governments ... it's not, one can imagine having a constitutional form of government without, without a parliamentary system but erm it's perhaps a bit of a stretch of the imagination. [178] But they mean by, erm constitutional government they also er er liberals also believed in the notion of parliamentary government. [179] ... It's very much connected to ... late enlightenment notions that the only valid government would be representative government. [180] ... Other forms of government are in a sense illegitimate. [181] Absolute rule. [182] Monarchical rule. [183] Well not necessarily, I mean, unless the monarch was was was er, was part of the constitutional set up. [184] But representative government was the only really legitimate form of government. [185] Of course, there was debate amongst liberals on how much representation there would be. [186] ... Or to put it, erm erm ... erm more simplistically ... how, how many people would have the vote. [187] ... Erm we see this within the context of the reform movement in Britain ... after eighteen fifteen. [188] Where you've got reformers ranging from those who want the household suffrage er household suffrage. [189] A vote to all householders. [190] Across to those who wanted erm erm a universal male suffrage. [191] Erm one man one vote. [192] ... Erm European liberalism ... is based upon, is based upon context as well of secularism. [193] Or to perhaps er put it more ... [...] to put it, to make it more erm obvious ... anti-clericalism. [194] ... This didn't necessarily mean hostility to religion as such. [195] But the notion of secularism, the notion of anti-clericalism meant that within the liberal states erm the er ... er there would be a separation of church and state. [196] Erm the church would have no ... role within the state as being say in a erm erm ... in other words there would be erm ... the catholic church in in erm ... in say er a state like France ... er should not be the established church. [197] There would be a separation of church and state. [198] And by and large the activities of church and state would be separatist. [199] The church would play no role in the affairs of state. [200] ... Erm ... Other notions erm of liberalism of course again which are perhaps pretty obvious ... freedom of speech ... and implied in that freedom of religion, freedom of expression, that kind of thing. [201] ... But in essence they're the main er er the main ... aspects of er of of er what was meant by liberalism in the er in in er the nineteenth century. [202] Erm ... it perhaps doesn't strike us as being very revolutionary but of course it depends from the context that you're in erm to perhaps some of the absolute rulers of er ... of er [...] perhaps, this was revolutionary. [203] Erm ... What about nationalism? [204] ... Nationalism ... we perhaps some of the er er some of the erm concepts of nationalism appearing even before the French revolution. [205] You begin to see er in erm in parts of Europe in the er later eighteenth century a growing emphasis upon er er upon language, literature of of certain areas. [206] I'm thinking of Italy here primarily. [207] Erm ... as it develops under the impact of the French revolution and Napoleonic rule and then later ... what nationalism came to be seen as ... it's the basically the idea that erm ... that people of a common ... culture ... history ... and language ... should occupy ... perhaps that's the wrong word. [208] Er should er ... should have a separate state. [209] Should not be ruled by a foreign power. [210] So a people with a common culture, history, language ... should live in a separately defined state. [211] ... And certainly should not live under the rule of a foreign er power. [212] ... And our classic examples of course there ... erm of of of this situation in in post eighteen fifteen Europe are Germany, Italy ... Poland ... . [213] Now I've ... I've suggested ... that ... erm in the early nineteenth century, liberalism and nationalism are very much bound up. [214] Er all, all nationalists in a sense are liberals, or liberals are nationalists. [215] One aspect of this of course, one reason er er behind this is is the French revolution. [216] Let's not forget that erm under Napoleonic rule you do see the creation of a so-called king of Italy. [217] It's northern Italy. [218] Erm Napoleon happens to be it's king and and it is very much a client of France. [219] We see the creation of of ... of the confederation of the Rhine. [220] A a kind of erm united Germany. [221] Erm ... within, in these states as well you,th the the nationalism of them, although it's in the French ... direction. [222] It's associated as well with the ideology of Napoleonic France. [223] Erm ... which does imply an attack on the old feudal regimes er er er previously existing. [224] Erm ... so after eighteen fifteen there is this ... link between liberalism and nationalism. [225] ... I don't wanna go much er er further ahead on this for the moment. [226] We do tend to see ... liberalism and nationalism parting company. [227] ... Especially after eighteen forty eight. [228] ... And as ag I will, I'll be returning to this obviously in consideration of Italy and Germany, but it is perhaps worth making this point now. [229] You do see liberalism and nationalism parting company. [230] Erm and you do get this growing awareness that not all of that ... while all liberals might be nationalists. [231] All right thinking liberals in Europe from Gladstone in England ... you know. [232] All right thinking liberals support nationalist aspirations. [233] Gladstone a great advocate of Italian unity for instance. [234] Gladstone an advocate of er of of Balkan nationalism. [235] He wanted Turkey out of the Balkan er er out of south eastern Europe. [236] So all good European liberals are nationalists. [237] It starts to become apparent, very very clear ... that not all nationalists are good liberals. [238] In fact far from it. [239] ... Erm if the choice is between ... securing er your er ... securing your own state. [240] Securing the nationalist goal and ignoring the liberal goal, many nationalists will go for the nationalist goal. [241] If the price of bringing about your united state ... is the dumping of liberals, then so be it. [242] In that sense nationalism of course er ... it perhaps becomes a more ... dynamic and problematic ideology in nineteenth century Europe. [243] ... So I I've digressed er from er considering what erm erm er what this has got to do with the er erm ... congress of Vienna but I think it's er hopefully er er a worthwhile erm er digression. [244] Erm ... let me turn er briefly to the ... those who have something good to say about the Vienna settlement. [245] ... It's had it's supporters er one is always reminded that one of it's key supporters, the former American er er secretary of state and and at the moment, globe-trotting world expert er ... Henry Kissinger. [246] Kissinger erm who began life as a er er as professor of history. [247] His first major work was a defence of the Vienna settlement. [248] ... Erm and it it it, it has been defended on a number of grounds. [249] ... It's been argued by it's supporters ... that it ushered in an era of peace. [250] ... Erm ... At it's most extreme interpretation ... there's an argument that erm, that the Vienna settlement was a factor ... in maintaining peace in Europe between eighteen fifteen and nineteen fourteen. [251] Because it's extreme supporters suggest that that it wasn't until nineteen fourteen that a war broke out involving all the great European powers. [252] ... Erm one would argue that's er that's er, that's an extreme erm er ... view. [253] ... Erm there are wars in Europe after eighteen fifteen. [254] And some people might argue the Vienna settlement was a factor in bringing about some of these wars. [255] So it's again, unfortunately it's ... it comes down [...] in one of these erm pays your money takes your choice erm er arguments. [256] But it is worth making the point that for instance if we take a look after eighteen fifteen of, at the wars. [257] There's war between Russia and Turkey in er eighteen er thirty ... when Russia militarily intervenes in the Turkish revolt. [258] ... Of course there's the war [...] war between Russia and Turkey as well in the in in in the eighteen seventies. [259] ... But for the moment I'm ... just looking perhaps nearer to the Vienna settlement itself. [260] ... Erm ... there's war between er ... you get the Crimean war ... between Russia on the one hand and Great Britain and France on the other. [261] And ... it's always worth remembering about the Crimean erm episode that Austria ... in essence intervenes on the side ... er er intervenes not so much on the side of Britain and France but against Russia. [262] Austria played a decisive though non-military role ... in er in in the Vienna, in in, in the er in the Crimean war. [263] ... Erm and then we have the so- called nationalist er wars. [264] For instance eighteen sixty four [...] between Denmark ... and Prussia and Austria. [265] Technically Prussia and Austria here representing the German confederation. [266] It's a war concerning the vexed and famous Schleswig-Holstein dispute of course which I'm sure we're all familiar with. [267] ... The erm ... eighteen sixty six ... war between Prussia and Austria. [268] ... These are, this is the war which essentially brings about German er unity under Prussian erm erm control. [269] Prussia is the victor of course of this war. |
| Unknown speaker (DCJPSUNK) |
[270] [...] shock win for Prussia. |
| (DCJPS000) |
[271] Shock win for Prussia! [272] What a kind of er foo ... sport's page headline isn't it, yeah? [273] [laugh] . If what you're suggesting is there was an expectation that Prussia might not win the war. [274] Yeah. [275] And given the fact don't forget, it's always worth remembering this and I've I've made, I'll be making the point later on. [276] Most of the German states supported Prussia in the Austrian Prussian war. [277] Including the [...] states. [278] ... Supported Austria sorry. [279] Supported Austria. [280] Not supported Prussia. [281] I think [...] . [282] ... Now of course there are the wars for Italian erm er unification. [283] Eighteen fifty nine. [284] A war between Au ... between Austria on the one hand and France and technically Piedmont on the other. [285] Although the Piedmontese army didn't arrive until the battles were over [laugh] . [286] There was war between on the one hand Austria and the other hand France ... and Piedmont. [287] ... Erm and then of course in a sense almost ... bringing these things together ... the, the major and perhaps most influential of these er wars. [288] The war between France ... what is normally referred to as the Franco-Prussian war. [289] I suppose to be technical it ought to be the er it ought to be referred to as the Franco- German war. [290] It ought to be a war between France and a united Germany. [291] But as it is, it is primarily Prussia that's er ... involved. [292] The war between France and Prussia. [293] Eighteen seventy to seventy one. [294] ... The argument is, is that okay these are, that certainly erm we see a number of wars in er nineteenth century Europe. [295] But the argument is ... well they're not very big wars are they? [296] They're they're short ... er wars. [297] They range I mean er the the er ... the ... er Prussian ... Austro-Prussian war of eighteen sixty six is ... is referred to as what the six weeks war and and erm the five, five weeks of that or or or whatever ... were were involved in peace negotiations. [298] The war itself was just three days. [299] Erm there was only one battle in it you know but ... That erm that the war between France and erm and and and Austria was fought in June erm ... essentially in June of er of eighteen er fifty nine. [300] They are short wars, the argument is. [301] The same with the Dan Danish Austro. [302] Danish war ... the wars in Denmark and Austria and Prussia ... one might imagine a rather short- lived er ... war. |
| Unknown speaker (DCJPSUNK) |
[303] How long did it take [...] ? |
| (DCJPS000) |
[304] Well ... not very long. [305] I suppose it's erm in in that sense ... erm ... er I I I I can see what you're, this, I don't think that's a factor in in in the, in the erm ... in in the fact that these wars are short. [306] I think these wars are short ... because they're fought for limited objectives. [307] They don't tend to escalate. [308] Because the, because only one or two of the powers are involved in them. [309] Or three perhaps in in in ... in the Crimea. [310] ... Erm ... Nevertheless, to some extent the wars reflect the breakdown of the Vienna settlement. [311] So it's a kind of a strange argument to suggest on the one hand the Vienna settlement ... was a factor in in preventing wars between all the great [...] , er major war [...] involving all the great powers. [312] Erm ... when at the same time the Vienna settlement appears to be crumbling like after er erm after eighteen thirty or something. [313] ... Of course erm ... it's perhaps, perhaps it's looking slightly to the er historical future it ... it's er ... it it was bad news in one sense because erm there came to be a view taken in Europe that wars between the great powers would be short, sharp wars. [314] And hence the feeling in nineteen fourteen when the first world war broke out that it would er ... all be over by Christmas. [315] Because it, cos people were you know erm as is often said generally of of a ... of a general staffs of armies. [316] They're always fighting the previous war. [317] There was this view that the first world war would be rather like a re-run of some of these wars at the end ... of the nineteenth century. [318] Erm which ... didn't turn out to be the case. [319] Erm ... so I would say, I'll just wrap this up erm on on erm on on on this point the er by making ... by introducing the fact that some, some historians have argued ... that ... these wars were short. [320] Okay they had limited objectives. [321] They were correcting the Vienna settlement. [322] That's in a way how you can perhaps square the circle. [323] You can argue these wars were corrective. [324] ... Erm ... And the other factor that that's introduced as well is that ... the powers got into the habit of meeting in congresses. [325] And you do see erm in the nineteenth century ... erm the powers still meeting together. [326] For instance at the end of the Crimean war in eighteen fifty six ... the peace treaty that's er er that's held is actually a congress. [327] All the powers attended ... the eighteen fifty six treaty of Paris. [328] It's not just a ... a peace treaty signed by ... it's not just, er it's not just a direct signing of a peace treaty between say France ... Britain, Russia. [329] It turns into a congress. [330] ... The congress of Berlin eighteen seventy eight. [331] When it appears that there might be a major outbreak in erm in in in in south eastern Europe. [332] The powers do perhaps get into the habit of erm of erm ... of meeting together. [333] Okay anyway, we'll er ... leave it at that then for the moment. |