BNC Text F7E

[Teachers' conference: discussing maths lessons]. Sample containing about 4268 words speech recorded in educational context

5 speakers recorded by respondent number C23

PS1LS Ag3 m (Alan, age 40+, teacher) unspecified
PS1LT Ag3 f (Cath, age 40+, teacher) unspecified
PS1LU Ag3 f (Judith, age 40+, teacher) unspecified
PS1LV Ag2 m (Ian, age 30+, teacher) unspecified
F7EPS000 X u (No name, age unknown) unspecified

1 recordings

  1. Tape 077902 recorded on 1992-09-03. LocationNorthumberland: North Shields ( Ralph Gardner high school ) Activity: discussing maths lessons agenda for maths corriculum

Undivided text

Alan (PS1LS) [1] You could assess them on on ... on that, and just say right I I think you're a ... and A or a B ... on this particular booklet.
Cath (PS1LT) [2] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [3] Because I've done it, with you.
[4] I mean, that's no reason, but we shouldn't be sort of saying, well look let's not, lets all not do this booklet now
Cath (PS1LT) [5] Mm.
Alan (PS1LS) [6] and I think it's something that we ourselves ... should look at.
Cath (PS1LT) [7] Yeah, I I just wondered because there are some of them that don't have any relevance to national curriculum and I want to
Alan (PS1LS) [8] Why?
Cath (PS1LT) [9] I just thought maybe, you know, sort of miss them out ... do level one.
Judith (PS1LU) [10] Do another type?
Cath (PS1LT) [11] Do level one and level two, the ones that you you have to do ... and if there's any time left at the end of the year do the ones that ... that you missed out.
Judith (PS1LU) [12] That are left , aha.
Alan (PS1LS) [13] Yeah!
Cath (PS1LT) [14] You know that
Judith (PS1LU) [15] Ah
Cath (PS1LT) [16] you know are, are non-essential.
Alan (PS1LS) [17] I'm sure that, would the would they be flexible and and and look at, I mean certain things ... you know ... rhombus and parallelogram.
Judith (PS1LU) [18] Yeah.
Alan (PS1LS) [19] Do you really feel
Cath (PS1LT) [20] It's just that
Alan (PS1LS) [21] that that's ... terribly
Cath (PS1LT) [22] Yeah.
Alan (PS1LS) [23] important?
Cath (PS1LT) [24] And it,the there are some of the extension [...] ... that are much more appropriate.
Alan (PS1LS) [25] Yes, we don't, yes
Cath (PS1LT) [26] And some of the children never ever get to the extension booklets!
Judith (PS1LU) [27] Have you ... do you think it ... it might be better for some of the brighter ones to stretch them, to go through the whole ... lot ... do you know what I mean?
[28] Instead of just doing all of one A ... you know how yo , how you follow the the ... the map?
Alan (PS1LS) [29] Yeah.
Judith (PS1LU) [30] To do, go through and do the extensions at the same time, follow the topic straight
Alan (PS1LS) [31] Mhm.
Judith (PS1LU) [32] through.
Cath (PS1LT) [33] It would be
Judith (PS1LU) [34] Do you think they would
Alan (PS1LS) [35] Sometimes it is, yes.
Cath (PS1LT) [36] It would be ... it would be better for them than doing all the extensions together ... cos doing all the extension booklets
Judith (PS1LU) [37] I know.
Cath (PS1LT) [38] together is really hard!
Judith (PS1LU) [39] I don't think it it is
Alan (PS1LS) [40] It's hard.
Judith (PS1LU) [41] and it's erm ... I don't
Cath (PS1LT) [42] Mhm.
Judith (PS1LU) [43] think it's very meaningful to them.
Cath (PS1LT) [44] Yeah.
[45] What I've, what I've tended to do is to do two B and two E
Alan (PS1LS) [46] Together?
Cath (PS1LT) [47] together.
Judith (PS1LU) [48] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [49] That mi , that might be more
Judith (PS1LU) [50] Aha.
Alan (PS1LS) [51] sensible.
Judith (PS1LU) [52] Well I haven't, you see but I I've thought about it and thought
Cath (PS1LT) [53] Yeah
Judith (PS1LU) [54] it would be a good
Cath (PS1LT) [55] I've done
Judith (PS1LU) [56] idea.
Cath (PS1LT) [57] I've done that, cos what I've said to them is well it's, it's too much for you to do all the extensions together.
Judith (PS1LU) [58] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [59] Mhm.
Judith (PS1LU) [60] Mhm.
Cath (PS1LT) [61] If you do two B and two E, and two E and three A.
Judith (PS1LU) [62] Mm.
Alan (PS1LS) [63] Mhm.
Cath (PS1LT) [64] And mix them.
Alan (PS1LS) [65] Yes, so you, you would you would look
Cath (PS1LT) [66] Cos three A's easy isn't it?
Alan (PS1LS) [67] Ooh , ooh yes!
[68] You would look at one A and one B
Judith (PS1LU) [69] Well that's it, they find that
Alan (PS1LS) [70] probably together
Judith (PS1LU) [71] a doddle don't they?
Alan (PS1LS) [72] would you?
Judith (PS1LU) [73] After doing er
Alan (PS1LS) [74] Oh!
Judith (PS1LU) [75] Sorry? [...]
Alan (PS1LS) [76] One A and one B so so yo yo or or would you have all of yours completing one A before they started on one B?
Judith (PS1LU) [77] Well ... have you got
Alan (PS1LS) [78] Or do you
Judith (PS1LU) [79] that map?
[80] Is it in there ... or not, the map?
Cath (PS1LT) [81] Yeah it's in it's in that ... the that.
Alan (PS1LS) [82] [...] one.
Judith (PS1LU) [83] You know, the map that we've got all [...] or not?
Cath (PS1LT) [84] There.
Alan (PS1LS) [85] You mean with all the
Judith (PS1LU) [86] Aye, it's not in there is it?
Cath (PS1LT) [87] Aye, the one that, the one that we printed out.
Judith (PS1LU) [88] Is it?
[89] Yeah, that's it!
[90] No, that's er
Ian (PS1LV) [91] It doesn't give all them [...]
Alan (PS1LS) [92] No, it doesn't.
[93] Er
Judith (PS1LU) [94] Mm.
Alan (PS1LS) [95] I don't know where the map came from originally
Judith (PS1LU) [96] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [97] but it wasn't in this book.
Judith (PS1LU) [98] Well the , I me , it does follow across doesn't it?
Alan (PS1LS) [99] Yes.
Judith (PS1LU) [100] From one A ... one B
Cath (PS1LT) [101] That's two A, two B
Alan (PS1LS) [102] That's it.
Cath (PS1LT) [103] and two E, so that
Judith (PS1LU) [104] That's right , yeah
Cath (PS1LT) [105] that shows that one.
Judith (PS1LU) [106] Mhm.
Ian (PS1LV) [107] Yes, you see ... the ... the they're suggesting that when you've done area one ... that you might like to
Judith (PS1LU) [108] Aha.
Ian (PS1LV) [109] go on to multiplicational area.
Cath (PS1LT) [110] Aha.
Ian (PS1LV) [111] And that, if you've done ... erm ... bum bum bum ... digging into history ... that you could do coordinates and coordinate patterns.
Judith (PS1LU) [112] Mhm.
Cath (PS1LT) [113] Well it's, it's not so much a suggestion it's more that you can't do multiplicational area until
Ian (PS1LV) [114] Oh yes!
Cath (PS1LT) [115] you've done area one
Judith (PS1LU) [116] Aha.
Cath (PS1LT) [117] isn't it?
Ian (PS1LV) [118] Yes.
Judith (PS1LU) [119] Yeah.
Ian (PS1LV) [120] But I think the link-up is suggesting that
Judith (PS1LU) [121] Mm.
Ian (PS1LV) [122] you could
Cath (PS1LT) [123] Yeah.
Ian (PS1LV) [124] just ... follow on there.
Judith (PS1LU) [125] Mhm.
Ian (PS1LV) [...]
Judith (PS1LU) [126] So really the they're working on the whole scheme then ... er
Cath (PS1LT) [127] Well
Judith (PS1LU) [128] from one to four aren't they?
[129] Some
Cath (PS1LT) [130] A
Judith (PS1LU) [131] of them, do you think it'll
(F7EPS000) [132] I I tend
Judith (PS1LU) [133] create problems
(F7EPS000) [134] I tend to sa sa to say right ... you know, one A and one B ... are all out together.
Judith (PS1LU) [135] Oh yes, that
Alan (PS1LS) [136] but
Judith (PS1LU) [137] that's ... but once they start
Alan (PS1LS) [138] well I didn't used to, I used to have one A at the beginning ... but of course, it was impractical because the ... there weren't enough booklets to go round.
Cath (PS1LT) [139] Well ... I mean a ... all the reasonable kids ... don't do ... all
Alan (PS1LS) [140] No.
Cath (PS1LT) [141] the numbers one, two, three, four, five anyway.
[142] So
Alan (PS1LS) [143] No
Cath (PS1LT) [144] that's
Alan (PS1LS) [145] but you still have to take care in case somebody says well I've just done fractions two, and you say but ... you haven't done fractions
Cath (PS1LT) [146] Yeah!
Alan (PS1LS) [147] one!
Cath (PS1LT) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [148] [laughing] You know [] !
Cath (PS1LT) [149] Aha.
Judith (PS1LU) [150] Mhm.
Cath (PS1LT) [151] Yeah, but I mean the bright ones do the ... the bypass sheet ... they have the fractions one, and they
Judith (PS1LU) [152] The fractions and the
Cath (PS1LT) [153] don't do that either!
Judith (PS1LU) [154] Yeah.
Alan (PS1LS) [155] Yeah.
Ian (PS1LV) [156] Yeah and if you block it all ... you're gonna get some kids who will never ... go beyond number.
Alan (PS1LS) [157] Yes, the ma , the ma
Ian (PS1LV) [158] They won't experience
Alan (PS1LS) [159] They might
Ian (PS1LV) [...]
Alan (PS1LS) [160] and they
Judith (PS1LU) [161] No.
Alan (PS1LS) [162] might concentrate
Ian (PS1LV) [...]
Judith (PS1LU) [163] No, I me yes, no, it's not practical to do the whole lot but to erm
Cath (PS1LT) [164] But, well certainly lo one and two you could couldn't
Judith (PS1LU) [165] Mhm.
Cath (PS1LT) [166] you?
Judith (PS1LU) [167] Mhm.
[168] See, you just use your own judgements, some
Cath (PS1LT) [169] Yeah.
Judith (PS1LU) [170] some kids, you know
Alan (PS1LS) [171] I mean I do I don't think that as a department
Judith (PS1LU) [172] Depends on the ability of the child.
Alan (PS1LS) [173] we should start saying this is what we all do.
Judith (PS1LU) [174] Yeah.
Alan (PS1LS) [175] We we do
Cath (PS1LT) [176] Mhm.
[177] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [178] what we feel ... we want them to do and
Judith (PS1LU) [179] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [180] what see it seems ... [...]
Judith (PS1LU) [181] I think it, this is whole scheme is just a case experimenting and trying things ... with different work
Alan (PS1LS) [182] By the time we ge
Judith (PS1LU) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [183] By the time we get it right
Judith (PS1LU) [184] [laughing] Yes, after about ten years [] !
Alan (PS1LS) [185] the scheme will be redundant or we'll have retired at
Judith (PS1LU) [186] [laughing] That's right [] !
Alan (PS1LS) [187] you know, but er ... that's what it's all about.
Judith (PS1LU) [188] Yes, you'll go
Alan (PS1LS) [...]
Judith (PS1LU) [189] and somebody'll come in a say, oh I don't like this [laughing] and get rid of it [] !
Alan (PS1LS) [190] Yes, when I retire somebody'll say well we're gonna do, smile now!
Judith (PS1LU) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [laugh]
Ian (PS1LV) [191] So you're not bothered if at the end of ... the two years they haven't ... even
Cath (PS1LT) [192] Reached level four
Ian (PS1LV) [193] the best kids haven't reached level four?
[194] Because
Alan (PS1LS) [195] I would
Ian (PS1LV) [196] have ... working three lessons a week ... some of mine are scarce, sort of struggle to onto four.
Cath (PS1LT) [197] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [198] I'm not saying that I wouldn't say
Cath (PS1LT) [199] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [200] I'm not bothered but I would be happier if ... they will ... very familiar with the work that they have done
Ian (PS1LV) [201] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [202] rather than
Ian (PS1LV) [203] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [204] race through
Judith (PS1LU) [205] But you might find that it's
Alan (PS1LS) [206] the booklet.
Judith (PS1LU) [207] it's ... easier because you missed some booklets out, [...] .
Cath (PS1LT) [208] Yeah.
Alan (PS1LS) [209] You wi they will have had support ... and yo you might say we're gonna miss ... little things out that ... we've already covered on or are not relevant anyway ... erm ... I think we've just gotta wa , just got to see how it works ... and
Ian (PS1LV) [210] A are we going to decide ... what we think can be missed out?
Alan (PS1LS) [211] No, I think, I think
Ian (PS1LV) [212] No, [...] , yeah.
Alan (PS1LS) [213] I think you yourself can decide what you want to miss out.
Judith (PS1LU) [214] From what you've taught in that third lesson
Ian (PS1LV) [215] Alright.
Judith (PS1LU) [216] really isn't it, a lot of it?
Alan (PS1LS) [217] So,we we're looking there at a a a reasonable amount of ... sort of ... extra work but I I think we will find a benefit ... [cough] from doing that.
Cath (PS1LT) [218] Mm.
Judith (PS1LU) [219] I say, we might
Alan (PS1LS) [220] Part
Judith (PS1LU) [221] if we sort through all the work sheets we've got we might find ... you know
Cath (PS1LT) [222] So
Alan (PS1LS) [223] Yes.
Cath (PS1LT) [224] some
Judith (PS1LU) [225] quite a few
Cath (PS1LT) [226] Are we going to try and get some work sheets?
Alan (PS1LS) [227] I think one of our first
Cath (PS1LT) [228] that we can ... we can
Alan (PS1LS) [229] jobs
Cath (PS1LT) [230] all use.
Ian (PS1LV) [231] Yeah.
Alan (PS1LS) [232] Mm.
Cath (PS1LT) [233] Are we also going to try and match those up with the attainment targets, so that we can say they've completed ... a work sheet successfully?
Judith (PS1LU) [234] Mhm.
Ian (PS1LV) [235] Yes.
Cath (PS1LT) [236] We can give them something.
Judith (PS1LU) [237] Yes , we'll put that on ... mhm.
Cath (PS1LT) [238] Put it on their record?
Alan (PS1LS) [239] Yes.
Cath (PS1LT) [240] And we could, if we've gotta collect evidence we could use those work sheets as evidence.
Judith (PS1LU) [241] Mhm.
Ian (PS1LV) [242] And we've also got
Judith (PS1LU) [243] Mhm.
Ian (PS1LV) [244] yes,we we've got to look at this ... in in in ... in the assessment er ... procedures as well but we've go we've got to try and link this up with er the ... the the computer work that we're doing ... erm ... we we've got I I I think really we we should have ... possibly a reasonably hefty session one evening next week to say right, how are we going to put this into practice?
[245] Let's, you know ... I mean Judith's saying, well I've got some good work sheets on this, I mean we can all say that ... if we ... all know where the work sheets are
Cath (PS1LT) [246] Mhm ... I think hoiked most of mine [...] !
Ian (PS1LV) [247] No but
Cath (PS1LT) [248] [laugh] I think I've cleared
Alan (PS1LS) [249] Mine are pretty dog-eared
Cath (PS1LT) [250] Well yes, yes I've think I've had
Judith (PS1LU) [251] Oh I've got loads!
Cath (PS1LT) [252] I had a damn good clear out I think most of mine have gone.
Judith (PS1LU) [253] Hundreds!
Cath (PS1LT) [254] I might have a copy of some.
Ian (PS1LV) [255] Well it seems pretty pointless, me sort of saying oh here, you know, they're never gonna get the hang of negative numbers and Judith saying, oh I've got an excellent work sheet, and you think well, you know
Cath (PS1LT) [256] Mm.
Ian (PS1LV) [257] if I'd known about that that would of great!
Cath (PS1LT) [258] Mm.
Ian (PS1LV) [259] I think if we all know what's available it would, it would be a lot easier than, than just operating as as ... you know, five separate units.
Judith (PS1LU) [260] Oh yes, I think so ... for that, and, so then we've gotta bank our work sheets
Cath (PS1LT) [261] Mhm.
Judith (PS1LU) [262] what we keep in the ... then, just all to use.
Ian (PS1LV) [263] I mean it's not gonna be, it's not gonna be easy but ... if we start developing it erm ... there's no reason
Judith (PS1LU) [264] Mhm.
Ian (PS1LV) [265] why ... you know, it shouldn't work reasonably well.
Judith (PS1LU) [266] Go and get my [...] down and get a bit more room. [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [267] Right, well we've only got erm ... not much more than ten minutes left ... erm, I'm ri ... I'm ... well we've got to be ... we've got to be early for lunch so ... you'll need to go
Cath (PS1LT) [268] It's only across there!
[269] Take us ten minutes
Alan (PS1LS) [270] you'll need to go
Cath (PS1LT) [271] to walk there.
Alan (PS1LS) [272] and shower and such like.
Cath (PS1LT) [laugh]
Judith (PS1LU) [273] [laughing] And change [] !
Alan (PS1LS) [274] Well you can stay here till twenty five past if you want ... that's up to you!
Cath (PS1LT) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [275] Erm ... am I right in thinking
Alan (PS1LS) [276] that this after , that this afternoon ... your
Cath (PS1LT) [277] I'm, I'm technology for the rest of the
Alan (PS1LS) [278] right.
Cath (PS1LT) [279] for the two days [...]
Alan (PS1LS) [280] And I'm somewhere else.
Judith (PS1LU) [281] It's just us two ... we're gonna do
Alan (PS1LS) [282] and you're
Judith (PS1LU) [283] our assessment [...]
Alan (PS1LS) [284] you're looking at ... graduated assessment?
Judith (PS1LU) [285] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [286] Okay.
[287] You won't be around ... for ... the other sessions
Cath (PS1LT) [288] No ... that's me finished.
Alan (PS1LS) [289] aye, is
Cath (PS1LT) [290] and I'm not [...]
Alan (PS1LS) [291] how many sessions are there this after ,da do we have a session together this afternoon or not?
Ian (PS1LV) [292] Yes.
Judith (PS1LU) [293] Yeah.
Ian (PS1LV) [294] Well yo you're ... not ... just ... just the three of us.
Alan (PS1LS) [295] Is there only one session this afternoon?
Judith (PS1LU) [296] Mhm.
Ian (PS1LV) [297] Two ... there's the one with ... Judith and I ... and then ... you join us ... for the last session.
Alan (PS1LS) [298] Right ... that's fine then!
[299] So we'll sta ... er you do erm ... graduated assessment this afternoon, then we'll start looking at ... erm, our assessment procedures ... we , you know ... S M P national curriculum ... and I mean, if you're not around ... you know ... well [...]
Cath (PS1LT) [300] I can't do the presentation.
Alan (PS1LS) [301] you know [...]
Cath (PS1LT) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [302] Aye.
Judith (PS1LU) [303] What presentation?
Cath (PS1LT) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [304] Aye.
Ian (PS1LV) [305] Don't know about a presentation.
Judith (PS1LU) [306] Yeah, I don't anything about a presentation.
Alan (PS1LS) [307] Mhm, well you will when you're sitting in front of the staff tomorrow so don't
Cath (PS1LT) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [308] So erm ... you know,wha what else do we feel ... I mean,tha that's ... that will take up this afternoon,wha what else do we feel is ... you know ... vitally ... er, important
Judith (PS1LU) [309] Ooh, how about a jacuzzi?
Alan (PS1LS) [310] so I should remember remember that there's a, you know it
Judith (PS1LU) [311] Having a jacuzzi!
Alan (PS1LS) [312] I do ju [laughing] hey [] !
Ian (PS1LV) [313] There you are.
Judith (PS1LU) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [314] That's Judith ... er er speaking jacuzzi first!
Judith (PS1LU) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [laugh]
Judith (PS1LU) [315] Wasn't me!
Alan (PS1LS) [316] The head, the head ... has said he wants er ... a duplicate copy of this!
Ian (PS1LV) [317] Has he?
Alan (PS1LS) [laugh]
Judith (PS1LU) [318] [laugh] ... He he's slipped
Alan (PS1LS) [319] Right.
Judith (PS1LU) [320] me a few quid to give him and what have you!
Alan (PS1LS) [321] Right Judith the ja jacuzzi for Judith, right.
Judith (PS1LU) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [322] Erm ... well in actual fact er ... S M
Ian (PS1LV) [...]
Alan (PS1LS) [323] you know, S M P er erm ... national curriculum is is ... gonna take us ... an [...]
Cath (PS1LT) [324] Forever!
Judith (PS1LU) [325] Mm.
Alan (PS1LS) [326] so
Cath (PS1LT) [327] Well look, if if ... you're wanting the next thing to do, I mean you've done that for seventh year
Alan (PS1LS) [328] Aha ... yes.
Cath (PS1LT) [329] Is it not worth sitting and thinking what you're gonna do with the eighth year?
Alan (PS1LS) [330] Some of the things for eighth year, oh yes!
Ian (PS1LV) [331] Yes, [...]
Alan (PS1LS) [332] Yes.
[333] But I do I think ... that would be very useful ... but we've got to make sure that we get this assessment ... started, so, if we don't get round to eighth year ... then that's tough!
Cath (PS1LT) [334] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [335] We've got seventh year, sorted ... erm ... I think we've gotta look at the assessment.
[336] Now,we while you're here ... you know wha ... just to sort of ten minutes ... erm ... I mean Ian's produced these ... sheets
Cath (PS1LT) [337] Yep.
Alan (PS1LS) [338] which we can photocopy
Judith (PS1LU) [339] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [340] now now basically what we're thinking is ... that ... no, we're not thinking, we haven't really got round to that!
[341] But I I would feel that that
Cath (PS1LT) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [342] you know we we must be talking about July ... when we sh when we present, when we produce ... erm ... one of these pieces of paper.
Judith (PS1LU) [343] For the present year seven?
[344] And eight
Alan (PS1LS) [345] Yeah.
Judith (PS1LU) [346] or just
Alan (PS1LS) [347] Yeah
Judith (PS1LU) [348] seven?
Alan (PS1LS) [349] Seven and eight.
Cath (PS1LT) [350] Sorry , one of these pieces of paper?
Judith (PS1LU) [351] Well one of these records.
Alan (PS1LS) [352] National curriculum records.
Cath (PS1LT) [353] Oh right!
Alan (PS1LS) [354] Now, I don't know whether ... what other people would, would say about doing it the way we're suggesting ... like ... somebody has completed ... levels ... one A, one B, and two A, therefore they've got this and perhaps
Cath (PS1LT) [355] Mm.
Alan (PS1LS) [356] a few odds and ends added to it?
Cath (PS1LT) [357] You're wanting to produce a certificate for the kids is that what you're talking about?
Alan (PS1LS) [358] Well, not a certificate, just a record
Judith (PS1LU) [359] No just our records!
Alan (PS1LS) [360] just the national curriculum
Ian (PS1LV) [361] Just a record!
Judith (PS1LU) [362] They're records!
Alan (PS1LS) [363] record sheet!
Judith (PS1LU) [364] Who, haven't got it [...] .
Ian (PS1LV) [365] You not seen them?
Cath (PS1LT) [366] No.
Alan (PS1LS) [367] Ah!
Judith (PS1LU) [368] [laughing] Oh [] !
Alan (PS1LS) [369] Look at this, straight in the briefcase
Cath (PS1LT) [370] Oh!
Alan (PS1LS) [371] and it's there!
[372] ... No it's not!
Judith (PS1LU) [laugh]
Alan (PS1LS) [373] Oh I've got my national curriculum in here as well!
[374] Erm
Cath (PS1LT) [375] Did you hear, that was Alan just [laughing] making it []
Alan (PS1LS) [376] I wondered where that had gone! [laugh]
Ian (PS1LV) [377] Hadn't I lost it, no?
Alan (PS1LS) [378] No, I did definitely bring it.
Cath (PS1LT) [379] Well look ... why don't you just ... sketch it out on there so I know the sort of thing that yo ... oh, you've got one have you?
Ian (PS1LV) [380] Ian's got me one!
Cath (PS1LT) [381] Hey, Ian I'm glad somebody's organised! [laugh]
Judith (PS1LU) [382] Oh!
Ian (PS1LV) [383] Do you want the old one or the new one?
Alan (PS1LS) [384] The newer one.
Ian (PS1LV) [385] Right.
Cath (PS1LT) [386] Right ... yeah, I knew
Ian (PS1LV) [387] This is it.
Cath (PS1LT) [388] that you'd done that because I started it as well on the computer
Ian (PS1LV) [389] Right ... well I've done it ... all the way through.
Cath (PS1LT) [390] Right fine.
Ian (PS1LV) [391] Right up there to the yellow books.
Alan (PS1LS) [392] Right.
Cath (PS1LT) [393] So what are you wanting from me?
Alan (PS1LS) [394] Right, so wha what we're looking at ... is ... you know ... we we would have ... that
Cath (PS1LT) [395] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [396] now, you're gonna get anybody with that, but let's suppose that you did have somebody that was really ... there ... we ... want that blacked out really
Cath (PS1LT) [397] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [398] and we would need to have national curriculum, name, date ... and so on which
Cath (PS1LT) [399] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [400] I mean, just a few odds and ends that you could do from your ... nice
Cath (PS1LT) [401] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [402] printing on the computer
Cath (PS1LT) [403] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [404] now, what we would say like, if somebody has erm ... you know, by the end of year seven ... done that
Cath (PS1LT) [405] Yeah.
Alan (PS1LS) [406] right, this would be the national curriculum record so we'd have something, but I don't know that it's wise ... to
Ian (PS1LV) [407] No.
Alan (PS1LS) [408] to really have that in to say look you know, to make it that obvious.
Ian (PS1LV) [409] Well I mean that wasn't in for that reason.
Alan (PS1LS) [410] No.
Ian (PS1LV) [411] It's not
Alan (PS1LS) [412] Oh yeah!
Ian (PS1LV) [413] I wasn't thinking ahead to a final document.
Alan (PS1LS) [414] S so we would look at that ... and you would need as well to be looking at
Cath (PS1LT) [415] Blacking in ... what, levels one
Alan (PS1LS) [416] li
Cath (PS1LT) [417] and two
Alan (PS1LS) [418] little bits
Cath (PS1LT) [419] and anything else that ... we
Alan (PS1LS) [420] and anything else
Cath (PS1LT) [421] we're saying that
Alan (PS1LS) [422] there
Cath (PS1LT) [423] we're going to cover
Alan (PS1LS) [424] Aha.
Cath (PS1LT) [425] on there.
Alan (PS1LS) [426] But ... I mean when you think how long it was taking us ... taking a blank one of, and I know the
Cath (PS1LT) [427] One of them.
Alan (PS1LS) [428] attainment targets have changed, but a blank one of those, and colouring the damn, ooh sorry Pete!
[429] The er, things in erm ... you know, I mean, that was horrendous!
Judith (PS1LU) [430] Why?
Cath (PS1LT) [431] Well it was me that did that
Ian (PS1LV) [...]
Cath (PS1LT) [432] in the first place
Alan (PS1LS) [433] Yes.
Cath (PS1LT) [434] for the other one so I know! [laugh]
Ian (PS1LV) [435] It has to be remembered as well that this is my interpretation of the blurb that S M P have sent out.
Alan (PS1LS) [436] We're happy with your
Ian (PS1LV) [437] Because
Alan (PS1LS) [438] interpretation.
Ian (PS1LV) [439] I mean ... the first time at a lower level ... something appeared, I shaded half a square
Cath (PS1LT) [440] That's what I
Alan (PS1LS) [441] Yeah!
Cath (PS1LT) [442] did!
Ian (PS1LV) [443] and next time it appeared
Cath (PS1LT) [444] Yeah.
Ian (PS1LV) [445] I shaded the full square
Cath (PS1LT) [446] Yeah.
Ian (PS1LV) [447] in, now whether that's right or not I don't
Cath (PS1LT) [448] That's
Ian (PS1LV) [449] know.
Cath (PS1LT) [450] that's what I did, and I I thought the same thing.
[451] Really, what we needed to do was to read through make sure that it was covered adequately ... but on the other hand, if they've come across something ... twice ... and ... not if i , if it was in brackets I didn't count it, did you do
Ian (PS1LV) [452] Mm.
Cath (PS1LT) [453] that as well?
[454] If it was just in brackets then I ignored it
Ian (PS1LV) [455] Yeah.
Cath (PS1LT) [456] it had to appear twice properly
Ian (PS1LV) [457] Aha.
Cath (PS1LT) [458] before I coloured it in.
Alan (PS1LS) [459] Yes, I mean the other thing is if we are absolutely honest, which we shouldn't be with a microphone in front of us but, if we're absolutely honest, you know ... this, this is a bit of work that we're trying to make simple
Cath (PS1LT) [460] Aha.
Alan (PS1LS) [461] when is anybody going to come ... and make use of that?
Cath (PS1LT) [462] The o the only thing is ... that when the kids do the sats
Alan (PS1LS) [463] Yes.
Cath (PS1LT) [464] Right?
Judith (PS1LU) [465] Aha.
Cath (PS1LT) [466] And they are given a level from the sats ... how are you going to record that on there?
Judith (PS1LU) [467] Mm.
Cath (PS1LT) [468] And how are you going to record ... ar are you still ... you see, you can't use colours, if you're gonna do it that
Alan (PS1LS) [469] So
Cath (PS1LT) [470] way
Alan (PS1LS) [471] this would just be dated ... and then ... er, by year nine ... they would have ... er, a nineteen ninety three one, a nineteen ninety four one, and nineteen ninety five one.
Cath (PS1LT) [472] Right, so you need a year as well?
Judith (PS1LU) [473] You're going a
Cath (PS1LT) [474] Really that you need a space for dates.
Judith (PS1LU) [475] Are you going to explain to me this afternoon how this works are you?
Cath (PS1LT) [476] Well if they've finished one A, you photocopy that.
Ian (PS1LV) [477] If they've finished level one A.
Cath (PS1LT) [478] You give them one of them.
Ian (PS1LV) [479] You photocopy that with their name on.
Judith (PS1LU) [480] Oh!
[481] Oh, well that's good!
Ian (PS1LV) [482] If they've finished one
Cath (PS1LT) [483] Yeah?
Ian (PS1LV) [484] B, you photocopy that and put their name on.
Alan (PS1LS) [485] But we're not, but we're not going to da , we're going to do it one by one ... next July you will say where is a kid?
[486] Right
Cath (PS1LT) [487] And then you just say I've got five
Ian (PS1LV) [488] there'll be three A
Cath (PS1LT) [489] who have finished one A
Ian (PS1LV) [490] get a three A sheet out [...] their name on.
Alan (PS1LS) [491] then you get a three A sheet
Judith (PS1LU) [492] So you won't need all the others?
Ian (PS1LV) [493] No, no.
Cath (PS1LT) [494] The on , the only, the only
Judith (PS1LU) [495] Oh right!
Cath (PS1LT) [496] that you still ... either gonna have to fill in anything else that you've covered with them
Alan (PS1LS) [497] Aha.
Ian (PS1LV) [498] And attainment
Cath (PS1LT) [499] separately
Ian (PS1LV) [500] target one.
Alan (PS1LS) [501] That's the [...] one.
Cath (PS1LT) [502] Attainment target one.
Alan (PS1LS) [503] But, even then I was thinking that we might, in actual fact, start looking at attainment target one and certainly fill in, you know
Cath (PS1LT) [504] Mm.
Alan (PS1LS) [505] the first, I mean ... there's
Ian (PS1LV) [506] Mm.
Alan (PS1LS) [507] no way that we could
Cath (PS1LT) [508] Level one I think are we, are we ignoring
Alan (PS1LS) [509] level one and level two
Cath (PS1LT) [510] what, I, are we ignoring the stuff that comes primary school then?
Judith (PS1LU) [511] Well, it'll be interesting to have them, but I mean
Alan (PS1LS) [512] It'll be interesting to have it, but I mean we
Judith (PS1LU) [513] you can't sort of
Alan (PS1LS) [514] we've got to asses kids on that.
Judith (PS1LU) [515] assume that they're at that level when they come to us and ... follow on from there.
Cath (PS1LT) [516] See I sometimes wonder whether it's not worth giving them some kind of er ... a proper test.
Ian (PS1LV) [517] National curriculum test.
Cath (PS1LT) [518] When they come in
Judith (PS1LU) [519] The beginning.
Ian (PS1LV) [520] Mhm.
Judith (PS1LU) [521] Mm.
Cath (PS1LT) [522] and saying ... right well ... you're at level
Alan (PS1LS) [523] Well that, that was another thing that we did debate
Cath (PS1LT) [524] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [525] should we in actual fact ... produce
Cath (PS1LT) [526] Give them give them time to settle in.
Judith (PS1LU) [527] Well we we should, well yes because I suppose eventually we could have them fo , we've got one now haven't we, for the end of year eight?
Alan (PS1LS) [528] Aha ... but if you
Judith (PS1LU) [529] Well we can it off the end of year seven and ... one for the begi , for next year so they
Alan (PS1LS) [530] Well no if ... if we wanted to we, we could produce erm a level three test.
Cath (PS1LT) [531] I mean when they when they do the sats
Judith (PS1LU) [532] What i , what's what is it we've got now?
[533] Three, four
Cath (PS1LT) [534] when the
Judith (PS1LU) [535] and five?
Cath (PS1LT) [536] when they, when the a the, when they do the sats ... then we'll, we'll have something that we can trust, won't we?
[537] When they have
Alan (PS1LS) [538] Well, mm mm!
Cath (PS1LT) [539] public sats.
Alan (PS1LS) [540] Mm.
[541] But it, if if we wanted to to change what we've done already ... we we could at a certain stage have a level three, I mean I've ... I've ordered ... these books, you know mathematics level by level
Cath (PS1LT) [542] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [543] so we've got what we've already got and we could produce ... i it it just worries me because we're going, we're going back to eleven plus days you know!
Judith (PS1LU) [544] Mhm, I know
Alan (PS1LS) [545] And saying a lev , you know
Cath (PS1LT) [546] Well they are anyway cos they've been doing the test at eleven!
Judith (PS1LU) [547] Ya, well that's what it is isn't it?
[548] In
Alan (PS1LS) [549] But
Judith (PS1LU) [550] different levels
Alan (PS1LS) [551] we we could have a level three test ... that they could try.
Judith (PS1LU) [552] Mhm.
Alan (PS1LS) [553] And then we could say, well yes this confirms what, what we've ... what we've said here [...] .
Judith (PS1LU) [554] Well how do they get the levels in the junior school?
[555] How did Mrs do it?
Ian (PS1LV) [556] Erm
Alan (PS1LS) [557] Ooh, tick sheet isn't it?
Ian (PS1LV) [558] Sorry?
Alan (PS1LS) [559] It's a tick sheet isn't it?
Ian (PS1LV) [560] It's a [...] , mhm.
[561] Yeah ... but some of them have had sats obviously ... the ones lower down.
[562] But I mean, they
Judith (PS1LU) [563] But, but then
Ian (PS1LV) [564] they're insisting on kids, they're they give them a problem which is a typical level ... four or five or six or whatever, and because they get that one ... problem right they say that that kid ... is a level six
Judith (PS1LU) [565] Oh!
Ian (PS1LV) [566] You know,ju just
Alan (PS1LS) [567] So I mean tha that's
Ian (PS1LV) [568] looking at one
Judith (PS1LU) [569] Aha.
Ian (PS1LV) [570] single aspect for [...] you know
Cath (PS1LT) [571] But, but the other thing about giving them a standardised test at the re , when when they first arrived with us, is when you get the parent who comes and says well ... how they were level five in the primary school and you've only given them level four?
[572] You can say, well I'm sorry but on our ... tests
Judith (PS1LU) [573] Mhm.
Cath (PS1LT) [574] when they arrive in school in September ... they were level ... two ... and they've now moved up to level three.
Alan (PS1LS) [575] That, of course is that, that of course is the the problem of national curriculum ... it's your interpretation of of the national curriculum ... and there is ... I mean, if Judith says a child is level three, I would accept that ... but if somebody from Spring Garden said this child is level five, I'm certainly not going to accept that without [laughing] evidence that I have [] !
Cath (PS1LT) [576] Yeah, but what I'm saying is that , yeah, but what I'm saying is when the parent comes to you and says ... well the primary school said they were ... you can say well ... well yes but by ... by our standards and our assessment when they arrived here
Alan (PS1LS) [577] The the problem is that that
Cath (PS1LT) [578] they were that , and they and this is pre the progress that they've made
Judith (PS1LU) [579] The thing you are saying about
Alan (PS1LS) [580] The parents are going to naturally assume that you're a ... if you're at level five ... at one stage
Judith (PS1LU) [581] the ones you buy in a shop I've heard of six
Alan (PS1LS) [582] that you would either remain at level five, or go up to level six
Judith (PS1LU) [583] six is the [...] .
Alan (PS1LS) [584] which is not gonna be the case when they transfer from school.
Cath (PS1LT) [585] So you can [...] six.
[586] I know, I know!
Judith (PS1LU) [587] At regular intervals, [...] , but when you get to higher [...]
Cath (PS1LT) [588] But at least it would give us some [...] because you could say well yes, there has been progress, erm ... primary school might have said
Judith (PS1LU) [589] you only have one ... level five ... for all [...]
Cath (PS1LT) [...]
Judith (PS1LU) [590] and like, [...] did was three.
Alan (PS1LS) [591] Mhm.
Ian (PS1LV) [592] I would think so.
Judith (PS1LU) [593] And if they, that's what you say that they're doing
Alan (PS1LS) [594] Well more or less.
Cath (PS1LT) [595] They di di yo