BNC Text F7W

[Clitheroe magistrates' court: trials]. Sample containing about 7082 words speech recorded in public context

1 recordings

  1. Tape 078901 recorded on unknown date. LocationLancashire: Clitheroe ( magistrates court ) Activity: trials evidence given in court

Undivided text

(F7WPSUNK) [1] Morning.
(F7WPSUNK) [2] Morning.
(F7WPSUNK) [3] Morning Sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [4] There are some licensing applications George.
(F7WPSUNK) [5] Is there?
(F7WPSUNK) [6] Application er ... question number fifty three please your honour please.
[7] Send that to all at the Crosskeys ... at, the Chester your worships.
[8] So that at all?
(F7WPSUNK) [9] I am.
(F7WPSUNK) [10] Licensee of the Crosskeys at the Chester.
(F7WPSUNK) [11] That's right, yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [12] And you're making applications for an occasional license ... for Saturday the twenty ninth of October ... to run the bar at Nell Gwyn ... village hall ... on behalf of the ... the village hall committee is that right?
(F7WPSUNK) [13] No, that's the way it is, yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [14] The hours you're asking for is seven thirty pm to eleven forty five pm?
(F7WPSUNK) [15] That's right.
(F7WPSUNK) [16] I think you did send this is ... intending it to be a postal application ... Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [17] I did, yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [18] But er, your worships [...] to do it by your colleagues until today ... because er ... Mr ... indicate on the ... application form ... that er ... he will not be ... in fact, operating the bar himself but it would be somebody else.
[19] In fact they, your colleagues wanted more information about
(F7WPSUNK) [20] Yeah that's a
(F7WPSUNK) [21] Who will be operating bar Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [22] Well ... I'm I'm on er Mr Martin .
[23] Actually I did ... operations between the village hall and the Crosskeys and Mr Martin is on the ... pub for the last sixteen years you see.
(F7WPSUNK) [24] Well that concerns this this gentleman to extend the licensing.
(F7WPSUNK) [25] Oh yes sir, definitely.
[26] I'll I'll be going to the village hall ... but I me I have to [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [27] The Crosskeys that's why I put Martin , perhaps I've put the wrong thing on you see.
[28] I'll be in charge of the bar actually.
(F7WPSUNK) [29] So physically you will be exercising something degree of supervision in the [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [30] Oh that, yes!
(F7WPSUNK) [31] Will you be there when it's time to close Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [32] I will, yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [33] You see there ... [...] in particular to young people.
[34] You are aware of that?
(F7WPSUNK) [35] Oh yes, that, that's why [...] !
(F7WPSUNK) [36] Then this application be granted.
(F7WPSUNK) [37] Right, thank you very much.
(F7WPSUNK) [38] Thank you.
(F7WPSUNK) [39] Er
(F7WPSUNK) [40] Thank you, thank you very much.
(F7WPSUNK) [41] Application number fifty four your worships, the ... a temporary authority in respect of Quick Save Supermarket.
(F7WPSUNK) [42] [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [43] Jacqueline is the applicant your worship. ...
[44] Are you representing [...] ?
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [45] Right.
[46] Could you take the oath please?
[47] Hold the bible up in your right hand and read the words from that card.
(F7WPSUNK) [48] I swear by almighty God that the evidence I shall give is ... shall be truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
(F7WPSUNK) [49] Okay.
[50] Now [...] full name and address could you?
(F7WPSUNK) [51] Jacqueline ,.
(F7WPSUNK) [52] And er, what is your date of birth?
(F7WPSUNK) [53] Thirteenth of the twelfth, sixty four.
(F7WPSUNK) [cough]
(F7WPSUNK) [54] And you're making application for temporary authority to ... operate the licensed [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [cough]
(F7WPSUNK) [55] premises ... known as Quick Save Supermarket
(F7WPSUNK) [56] That's right.
(F7WPSUNK) [57] at er Station Road, Wetherall is that right?
(F7WPSUNK) [58] That's right, yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [59] Is the outgoing licensee present?
(F7WPSUNK) [60] Pardon?
(F7WPSUNK) [61] Is the outgoing licensee present?
(F7WPSUNK) [62] No.
(F7WPSUNK) [63] Why?
(F7WPSUNK) [64] Don't know.
[65] Not had a
(F7WPSUNK) [66] You don't know?
[67] Well, somebody's handed these documents in, have these come with you today?
(F7WPSUNK) [68] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [69] The present license holder is Susan .
(F7WPSUNK) [70] That's right.
(F7WPSUNK) [71] Right.
[72] Sir, there is a letter simply saying er ... she consents to the ... er, application, but there's no indication to why she's not here.
[73] Is that lady now at that Qui ... Quick Save?
(F7WPSUNK) [74] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [75] She's at work for the company too?
(F7WPSUNK) [76] Well
(F7WPSUNK) [77] What's your normal [...] there?
(F7WPSUNK) [78] Supervisor.
(F7WPSUNK) [79] In this depot in Wetherall
(F7WPSUNK) [80] That's right.
(F7WPSUNK) [81] Are you there permanently?
[82] All
(F7WPSUNK) [83] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [84] day every day?
(F7WPSUNK) [85] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [86] The premises [...] ?
(F7WPSUNK) [87] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [88] What er, experience have you got in er ... the sale of intoxicating liquors ... Miss ?
(F7WPSUNK) [89] Well I worked ... for the past two year really
(F7WPSUNK) [90] Where, at the [...] ?
(F7WPSUNK) [91] I used to work in Oldham and then then I come over here.
(F7WPSUNK) [92] [whispering] [...] [] .
(F7WPSUNK) [93] So how long have you been at these particular premises?
(F7WPSUNK) [94] Er ... about a month ago.
(F7WPSUNK) [95] Mr ... Mr .
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [whispering] [...] []
(F7WPSUNK) [cough]
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [96] Well no she says, she said er ... she said [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [cough]
(F7WPSUNK) [97] it is [...] responsibility [...] .
[98] Cos she's just given up her ... her er any ... er, [...] ... possibly?
[99] ... [...] ... And er ... Miss do you intend to apply for the transfer of this license?
(F7WPSUNK) [100] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [101] Has an application been submitted ... for that purpose?
(F7WPSUNK) [102] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [103] To the, which transfer [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [104] Oh!
[105] ... Er to er
(F7WPSUNK) [106] I'm not so sure this applicant knows very much about what's going on here anyway your worship!
[107] Do you see what I mean, see most of this has been done for the convenience of the Quick Save Supermarkets ... on that er, I should say.
(F7WPSUNK) [108] Mm.
(F7WPSUNK) [109] Well, practical purposes at this stage sir she maintains insufficient [...] ... I've no doubt the licensee will want to know a lot more about ... the situation, it's very apparent [...] ... it's not long ago that they last ta transferred ... to their present holding.
(F7WPSUNK) [110] You are aware Miss that any persons working in that ... department have got to be of age?
(F7WPSUNK) [111] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [112] Can you undertake that that will apply?
(F7WPSUNK) [113] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [114] And you aware of the restrictions on drink for young people?
(F7WPSUNK) [115] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [116] And the sort of concern about that?
(F7WPSUNK) [117] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [118] And we're going [cough] to grant this protection order which is temporary permission to keep the premises open ... and I must tell you that there will be a lot more investigation before the order is granted [...] ... that the transfer is specialist.
[119] And we're ordering that the other person, if possible, attends at that [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [cough]
(F7WPSUNK) [120] If she's not in the district then it'll be difficult.
[121] And if it is possible, if she is in the district we order that she attends the transfer sessions ... the outgoing licensee.
(F7WPSUNK) [122] Fifty eight.
(F7WPSUNK) [123] Have you got the license er ... Miss ?
(F7WPSUNK) [124] No it's ... [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [125] Well, but it will not be effective until er, you have produced that license to this court.
[126] Erm, I assume it ... that this er, if the licensee has left those premises ... wi ... she's physically left has she there?
(F7WPSUNK) [127] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [128] Er, when did she go?
(F7WPSUNK) [129] About a month ago now ... [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [130] She left the company then did
(F7WPSUNK) [131] Mm.
(F7WPSUNK) [132] she?
[133] I see, well I would of expected those premises not to be selling intoxicating liquor sir, they've obviously not had a license for a month!
[134] That will also be er ... considered by the licensing committee at the next hearing!
[135] ... You must produce that license otherwise it's not effective er, Miss !
[136] ... See, as licensee you have responsibilities!
[137] It's all very well the company telling you as employee what to do ... it's yo , you're the one who's going to be in difficulties if you don't comply with the licensing laws!
(F7WPSUNK) [138] Your whole application's not been very satisfactory Miss !
[139] ... And the fact that the license is not in ... puts you in in in difficulty!
[140] We are aware now that you're operating without a license and it's up to you to get that license here as quickly as possible!
(F7WPSUNK) [141] Right ... [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [142] Okay.
(F7WPSUNK) [143] [...] ... To do with application as number forty four your worships, please.
[144] It's in respect of erm ... temporary authority ... for the [...] your worship.
(F7WPSUNK) [145] Your worship please ... I'd like to make to application on behalf of Mr ... for a protection order in respect of Vigitalle Er, Mr ... Mr , Mr .
(F7WPSUNK) [146] Your full name is James ?
(F7WPSUNK) [147] Yes sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [148] And you have resided for the last six months at the and at er ... ?
(F7WPSUNK) [149] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [150] And are you this morning applying for a protection in respect of the [...] Vigitalle
(F7WPSUNK) [151] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [152] Er, would you, would you ... tell the, your worships what experience you've had in the licensed trade.
(F7WPSUNK) [153] Er, yes sir my current position ... er, at the moment I'm at the licensed house trainee manager for ... Boddingtons Brewery and I've held that position for ... five and half years.
[154] Er ... previously I've had, held ... the license of Three Fishes at Lyddon ... er, for three years ... er, previous to that I held the license of the Mason's Arms, with [...] ... for three years previous to that ... and before I've been connected with the ... catering and licensed trade ... from be fifteen.
(F7WPSUNK) [155] And you're there for quali qualified rather than just the licensed trade would that be [...] ?
(F7WPSUNK) [156] I hope so, yes sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [157] And are you applying to, but,ar are you proposing to apply ... for the permanent transfer of this license?
(F7WPSUNK) [158] Yes sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [159] Thank you.
[160] Er, Mrs please.
[161] Mrs , your full is Margaret ?
(F7WPSUNK) [162] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [163] And are you the current licensee?
(F7WPSUNK) [164] I am, yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [165] And do you support the consentants application this morning?
(F7WPSUNK) [166] I do, yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [167] That is the application your worship.
(F7WPSUNK) [168] Thank you.
(F7WPSUNK) [169] A protection order be granted?
(F7WPSUNK) [170] Your worship please.
(F7WPSUNK) [171] Right ... [...] . ...
[172] Er, application [whispering] [...] [] .
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [173] Yes, [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [cough]
(F7WPSUNK) [174] [whispering] [...] [] ?
(F7WPSUNK) [175] Yes.
[176] But
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [177] But er
(F7WPSUGP) [178] [whispering] [...] [] .
(F7WPSUNK) [179] Excuse the long [...] .
(F7WPSUGP) [whispering] [...] []
(F7WPSUNK) [180] Page fifty seven please your worship, Robert James , he is in the cells your worship sorry!
[181] So it will take a moment for him to be bought up.
[182] There are apparently further charges to be put to him your worship ... the charge of theft ... and we charge him with handling stolen property.
[183] He's only charged with one offence of criminal deception at the moment.
(F7WPSUNK) [184] Right. ... [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [185] Fifty five sir, fifty six.
(F7WPSUNK) [186] Are you Robert James ?
(F7WPSUNK) [187] Yes sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [188] And what is your home address Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [189] .
(F7WPSUNK) [190] Is your date of birth the fourth of September nineteen fifty four?
(F7WPSUNK) [191] That's correct.
(F7WPSUNK) [192] Are represented by a solicitor today?
(F7WPSUNK) [193] Should be.
(F7WPSUNK) [194] Was it Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [195] I have given the ... you have all the documents in front of you.
(F7WPSUNK) [196] Well ... I think Mr got represented on a previous occasion that's why I'm asking you that!
(F7WPSUNK) [197] Well I don't know sir.
[198] My solicitor's in Birmingham! [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [199] My, my records [...] sir that Mr was the duty solicitor on that day.
(F7WPSUNK) [200] Oh!
[201] ... I think he's represented you on more than one occasion [...] .
[202] But don't he know that his solicitor's gotta be here for the [...] today?
(F7WPSUNK) [203] I haven't a clue what's happening!
[204] ... I didn't know, I mean I could of spoken to [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [205] Well you're the defendant, one would of thought yo yo yo know what'll happen to you!
(F7WPSUNK) [206] I haven't [...] .
[207] As, as far as I know I have a committal today.
(F7WPSUNK) [208] That's right.
[209] But I would of thought that your solicitor was ... to be here ... to represent you.
(F7WPSUNK) [210] As far as I'm aware my solicitor ... has been in contact with Burnley prosecution to have the case ... transferred to Birmingham Crown Court.
(F7WPSUNK) [211] Well ... he has been a bit
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [212] [...] if you tried there.
[213] Did you recognise ... the chap?
(F7WPSUNK) [214] I'm afraid sir, I have ... no knowledge, I haven't certainly myself spoken to anybody ... with regard to that, I would of thought the normal procedure would be for him to be committed ... to Preston Crown Court and for the Crown Courts thereafter ... to sort out the final venue.
[215] I certainly have no knowledge of ... of any contact ... with regard to the ultimate venue and nothing has been marked on my file.
(F7WPSUNK) [216] Your worships, legal aid was granted er ... on the thirteenth of September to affirm [...] ... of burglary.
(F7WPSUNK) [217] Well obviously they're not here your worship.
(F7WPSUNK) [218] Well all I can suggest is the case is ... adjourned for the week we'll just have to arrange a solicitor to be here.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [219] I wish for the committal to go along please sir?
[220] I've been stuck up in this place
(F7WPSUNK) [221] In that case [...] of the day sir because the statements have to read out in full.
[222] He doesn't want to be represented is that what you're saying?
(F7WPSUNK) [223] What I'm saying sir is to save the inconvenience to the court ... is that if I could have my committal ... cos I don't wanna be stuck up in this part of the country!
[224] ... I have a Crown Court appearance in Birmingham ... and as far as I'm aware my solicitors ... have been in contact with the prosecution in this part of the country to explain the procedure ... and as far as I'm aware ... the committal this morning was to be committed to Birmingham Crown Court with other offenses.
(F7WPSUNK) [225] Well you've heard the senior prosecutor say that she knows nothing, she
(F7WPSUNK) [226] Well I don't, I wouldn't have said
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [227] I don't know sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [228] Oh!
(F7WPSUNK) [229] I mean, that case then can I take my ... my committal to Preston Crown Court, and when I go to Birmingham
(F7WPSUNK) [230] If you're committed to trial in this court you will be committed to Preston.
(F7WPSUNK) [231] Well I'll take it
(F7WPSUNK) [232] If
(F7WPSUNK) [233] now then sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [234] if it is to be arranged ... and that you're dealt with at another court ... Crown Court will have to arrange that.
(F7WPSUNK) [235] Well in that case sir can you ... get the committee then please?
[236] As of now.
(F7WPSUNK) [237] As I say sir we put this matter down till later in the day, the defendant wi will not appear to be represented therefore the committal will have to be ... dealt with by re reading out all the statements.
[238] It can't be done ... simply [...] !
(F7WPSUNK) [239] Then we'll probably put this case back till later in the day.
(F7WPSUNK) [240] Do you see that Mr ?
[241] Because you're not represented
(F7WPSUNK) [242] Well I don't know what the situation is!
(F7WPSUNK) [243] Well I'm te , that's what I'm trying to tell you!
(F7WPSUNK) [244] You'll have to [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [245] But because you're not represented the statements will have to be read out!
[246] Which will er ... take quite some time and er will
(F7WPSUNK) [...] [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [247] and certainly will if you're reading to the court which was something you were concerned about.
(F7WPSUNK) [248] I'm not [...] ... [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [249] [...] I don't know whether you can help that man with that.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [250] Because Mr has represented him, Mr said before that he he thought it was as duty solicitor ... that he, he has represented him at some stage as duty solicitor ... but, he is represented under legal aid though this defendant ... by a firm of solicitors in Birmingham ... and he's anxious to be committed for trial ... today.
[251] If he was represented we could do it er, on the section six two.
[252] Otherwise
(F7WPSUNK) [253] Are there any solicitors present today?
(F7WPSUNK) [254] Not at present, but he doesn't know [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [255] Oh I see.
(F7WPSUNK) [256] He's given certain information to the court which ... isn't correct anyway!
(F7WPSUNK) [257] Have a word with him.
(F7WPSUNK) [258] It might help everybody concerned if you could have a word with [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [259] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [260] We'll have a word with [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [261] Could you deal with cases fifty five and fifty six your worship?
[262] Shaun David , Mr represents him.
(F7WPSUNK) [263] Are you Shaun David ?
(F7WPSUNK) [264] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [265] What's your date of birth Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [266] Twenty fourth of the seventh sixty seven.
(F7WPSUNK) [267] What is your address ... Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [268] .
(F7WPSUNK) [269] Well you're charged with two offenses, the first of which is that at Clitheroe ... on the twenty sixth of August nineteen eighty eight without lawful excuse ... you damaged two stained glass windows ... a picture frame glass and twelve [...] glasses of varying descriptions ... belonging to Whitbread Breweries ... intending to damage that property and the being reckless as to whether that property would be damaged ... contrary to section one of the criminal damage act in nineteen seventy one.
[270] I understand this value, value has been mentioned on a previous occasion, I think three hundred and ninety five pounds?
(F7WPSUNK) [271] Yes it is.
(F7WPSUNK) [272] Yeah.
[273] ... To that charge Shaun David do you plead guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [274] Worships if I may interrupt the the this erm dispute about the ... damage ... which was ... allegedly caused ... I have mentioned it to Miss this morning and she has ... undertaken to make further enquiries.
[275] Erm ... briefly, the situation is that it's alleged that he broke two stained glass door panels ... and Mr denies that he broke ... the second of the two, the one at the front door he says was broken ... at some time earlier ... on the evening on which he was involved.
[276] Unfortunately Miss hasn't been able to conclude her enquiries ... er, to ... apportion the damage ... and to take instructions as to the ... the residue of what I've just said.
[277] It is suggested er, by both myself and er ... my colleague that the matter should be adjourned for one week.
(F7WPSUNK) [278] Well it, it was adjourned last week for him to ... with instructions your worship.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [279] Yes we we've adjourned this case for one week ... other enquiries can be made.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [280] So he doesn't have to, on conditional bail today?
(F7WPSUNK) [281] Well bail will be extended for one week.
(F7WPSUNK) [282] Well you know what that means Mr , you were told ... this last week you will be [...] to surrender yourself to bail ... next Tuesday at er [...] .
[283] Hopefully the matter will proceed next week.
[284] Can we go your worships?
(F7WPSUNK) [285] Yes, you can leave the court.
(F7WPSUNK) [286] Case number one your worships please ... Peter John . ...
[287] Are you Peter John ?
(F7WPSUNK) [288] That's right.
(F7WPSUNK) [289] What's your date of birth?
(F7WPSUNK) [290] Nineteen of the first sixty three.
(F7WPSUNK) [291] What's your home address Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [292] .
(F7WPSUNK) [293] You are charged with an offence which is contrary to section six of the road traffic act in nineteen seventy two ... in [...] Wallby on the ninth of September ... drove a motor vehicle ... on ... the A six seven one ... Wallby by pass ... having consumed alcohol ... in such a quantity that the proportion of it, in your breath exceeded the prescribed limit.
[294] Do you understand?
[295] Do you plead guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [296] Guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [297] Have you got your driving license with you Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [298] I haven't got it actually, no.
(F7WPSUNK) [299] Why?
(F7WPSUNK) [300] Because, well I told the police at the time ... that er ... I've misplaced it ... and er ... my [...] is.
(F7WPSUNK) [301] What are you doing about getting er, a replacement?
(F7WPSUNK) [302] Well I haven't done anything at the moment because I di ... I didn't think it was worth it actually.
(F7WPSUNK) [303] Well, it says on the bottom of the, your copy of the charge sheet, production of driving license ... you must produce it, failure to produce it will mean that it is automatically suspended ... and it also means you've committed yet another offence ... by not having ... a driving licence here to produce Mr !
(F7WPSUNK) [304] Well I wa ... I wasn't sure ... whether to, whether it would go through in time for the case ... and that's why I haven't
(F7WPSUNK) [305] What's stopping you?
(F7WPSUNK) [306] send off for it.
[307] I wasn't sure what the situation was [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [308] Unless ... the prosecutor is in the fortunate position of having ... a computer printout of your driving ... er le , holding your licence record ... the case won't be able to proceed today anyway.
(F7WPSUNK) [309] And your worship, regrettably there is no printout of the driving licence.
(F7WPSUNK) [310] Well the case can't go ahead today without ... your driving licence.
(F7WPSUNK) [311] Sorry?
(F7WPSUNK) [312] The case cannot go ahead without your driving licence.
(F7WPSUNK) [313] How many weeks do you want to [...] ?
(F7WPSUNK) [314] Your worship, I would anticipate that it normally takes at least three weeks for a printout ... for the computer to be able to
(F7WPSUNK) [315] And this case is adjourned for three weeks in order that a computer printout will ... can be obtained.
(F7WPSUNK) [316] Does that mean I don't have to apply for another licence?
(F7WPSUNK) [317] No, but er ee i , I suggest you don't apply for the licence now.
[318] No, you've left it too late!
[319] ... But er ... I would urge you to try to find your driving licence ... because
(F7WPSUNK) [320] No, I I I don't think I'll be able to because [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [321] Right, well ... you know you're going to be disqualified eventually for this offence if you're convicted.
(F7WPSUNK) [322] Yes.
[323] What, the offence ... the ... drink driving offence?
(F7WPSUNK) [324] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [325] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [326] Do you understand?
(F7WPSUNK) [327] I realise that.
(F7WPSUNK) [328] You've pleaded guilty to the charge anyhow, it's a fair cop!
[329] ... The point is that when you are disqualified you're ... not just disqualified from driving you are disqualified from holding or obtaining any driving licence.
[330] So if you've got one at home ... you're committing an offence ... by being in possession of it.
[331] Do you understand?
[332] ... Do you understand that?
(F7WPSUNK) [333] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [334] Right.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [335] Do I
(F7WPSUNK) [336] No ... when you're disqualified.
[337] But don't apply for a driving licence in the meantime.
(F7WPSUNK) [338] Yeah okay alright.
(F7WPSUNK) [339] But er ... you'll be in a far ... safer position ... if you actually produce your licence on the twenty fifth of October.
(F7WPSUNK) [340] Right.
[341] Can I go sir?
(F7WPSUNK) [342] Yes, you can leave the court room.
(F7WPSUNK) [343] Er, so yours is better Mrs .
(F7WPSUNK) [344] Er number twenty one sir, the January [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [345] Sorry ... twenty one?
(F7WPSUNK) [346] Yes sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [347] [...] your worships, John Graham please, twenty one.
(F7WPSUNK) [348] Now, are you John Graham ?
(F7WPSUNK) [349] John Geoffrey .
(F7WPSUNK) [350] John?
(F7WPSUNK) [351] Geoffrey .
(F7WPSUNK) [352] Thank you.
[353] ... With a G?
(F7WPSUNK) [354] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [355] What's your date of birth Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [356] Twenty ninth of the eleventh sixty nine.
(F7WPSUNK) [357] What's your home address?
(F7WPSUNK) [358] You're stood up for a number of offenses, the first of which ... is that on the twenty first of June nineteen eighty eight ... you, on the public road way in Accrington Road Worley ... used the mechanics of the [...] vehicle when there was an excise licence in force, it's an offence of the vehicles excise act in nineteen seventy one.
[359] Do you understand?
(F7WPSUNK) [360] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [361] Do you plead guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [362] Guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [363] Also that you ... be the driver of the motor car having been required to produce your driving licence for examination to the police officer, failed to do so.
[364] To that, do you plead guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [365] Guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [366] Also that you used the vehicle without insurance being in force in respect of third party risks ... a contravention of section a hundred and forty three of the road traffic act ... to that are you guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [367] Not guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [368] Also, that on the twenty first of June you've used the motor vehicle ... at Worley on Accrington Road when there was no test certificate in force.
[369] Are you guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [370] Not guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [371] Also, that you failed to produce an insurance certificate on being required to do so.
[372] Are you guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [373] Guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [374] And, finally that you failed to produce a test certificate.
[375] Are you guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [376] Guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [377] Has he produced these documents to you Miss ?
(F7WPSUNK) [378] No sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [379] Have you got the insurance with you?
(F7WPSUNK) [380] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [381] The test certificate with you?
(F7WPSUNK) [382] Everything my solicitor [...] was outside.
(F7WPSUNK) [383] What?
(F7WPSUNK) [384] I give them to that solicitor that, I were talking to.
(F7WPSUNK) [385] Which duty solicitor?
(F7WPSUNK) [386] His duty solicitor's
(F7WPSUNK) [387] Oh!
(F7WPSUNK) [388] Mr .
(F7WPSUNK) [389] [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [390] [...] ... [...] likely to receive custodial sentences.
[391] [...] ... in this instance. ...
[392] I can't see any harm ... [...] .
[393] Would you like me to show the the prosecuting solicitor?
(F7WPSUNK) [394] Well perhaps it'll save time.
(F7WPSUNK) [395] [whispering] [...] [] .
[396] Mm?
[397] ... Knowing business effects it.
(F7WPSUNK) [398] No ... take them off.
(F7WPSUNK) [399] Yes, may please your worships I am satisfied that those documents ... to cover the ... defendant for the date in question ... and will therefore offer no evidence ... in relation to the [...] protest to these premises ... but to dismiss them.
(F7WPSUNK) [400] Could I ask sir
(F7WPSUNK) [401] Yes, stand up Mr [...] we listening to those three charges ... and maybe you'll [...] no test certificate in those two ... [...] .
[402] Er
(F7WPSUNK) [403] Now unless there's a prosecution we have the facts for the other offenses I understand.
(F7WPSUNK) [404] Yeah so please your worships it was the twenty first of June in the morning when the police officer was on duty ... on the Aces ... [...] Accrington at Worley ... he had occasion to stop the vehicle which was being driven by Mr ... and he noticed that the excise licence which was being displayed had in fact, expired at the end of March.
[405] Mr was unable to produce his documents in relation to the vehicle which he indicated was his own and he was therefore given an H R T one to produce those documents ... but you will appreciate from the matters that he's pleaded ... pleaded guilty to this morning ... he in fact, failed to produce ... his insurance ... driving licence ... and test certificate within the required period.
[406] Your worships, those are the brief facts, I would ask you consider back duty of eight pounds thirty three pence ... at being called a month of ... May.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [407] I think you'll find [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [408] He says [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [409] I would like them both to go back from the month of June.
(F7WPSUNK) [410] I know.
(F7WPSUNK) [411] I'd also ask you to consider costs of ten pounds.
(F7WPSUNK) [412] [whispering] [...] [] .
(F7WPSUNK) [413] He could have the li ... you can have your licence back [...] offenses to endorse it with.
(F7WPSUNK) [414] Yeah ... and er ... [whispering] [...] [] .
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [415] You're able to help him anyway. [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [416] Yes, [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [417] I wonder if I may
(F7WPSUNK) [418] Can I just say before we start but ... er ... why that he doesn't [...] call ... June ... and his licence for seven months.
(F7WPSUNK) [419] Sir, I apologise, I was ... going by this figure made by which indicated ... that it expired on the thirty first of March, I think and in fact, that is a ... an error on the officer's part ... it would appear ... from ... the licensing authorities ... in fact, it expired at the end of May.
(F7WPSUNK) [420] Yeah.
[421] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [422] [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [423] Your worships er, these offenses arrived out of er ... what was, initially a road ... traffic accident which occurred on the twenty first of June ... er, when ... er, Mr 's vehicle came into collision with ... er, a vehicle that was ... erm ... stationary in the centre of the road waiting to turn right.
[424] No ... er allegations of erm ... concerning the ... correct, his driving ... er, are made by the pro prosecution ... er ... as a result of the incident but ... er, as a result of the ... officer's enquiries ... er, it came to light that Mr ... was ... er, in breach of some of the ... er, other regulations regarding road uses and ... so the summonses which are to deal with this morning have er ... have been issued against him.
[425] Erm, and you will ... be aware that ... at two of ... er, three of the er ... summonses that are now left here to de deal with, that's three of the four ... er, do in fact, relate to clearly produce the documents.
[426] Er, failure to produce his driving licence ... failure to produce ... a ... test certificate for the vehicle and failure to produce his insurance documents ... and what Mr says ... in respect of er, those three offenses is that ... er, the officer, he accepts, did tell him that he was obliged to produce the documents to a police station ... but he says that ... he was suffering some shock as a result of the road accident ... and er ... he didn't appreciate what the officer was saying to him at the time ... and, never having had to produce his documents at the police station before ... er, he had never ... er no , known that that was a procedure that had to be followed ... and in the circumstances ... he didn't pay any attention to the print on the H R T ... er, one form that was issued to him and he ... didn't produce the documents.
[427] It was completely ignorance on his part ... in that respect.
[428] Er your worships, the one remaining summonses, the one relating to the fact that his vehicle ... er, wasn't taxed at the time of the accident ... and, I think er ... he he will be aware his tax ... er, did run out at the end of May ... and this accident happened on the twenty first of June.
[429] I've asked him about that and what he said is that ... er, he was saving up and he was going tax the vehicle as soon he ... was able to do so ... but he didn't have the funds and ... er, to do so at, at that time.
[430] Erm ... he is obviously aware that er ... by not having the vehicle taxed ... it's going to cost him considerably more than if he had er ... taxed the vehicle at the right, correct and proper time.
[431] Your worships, Mr works for Wallbank aerials in Worley ... and he works for them as an engineer ... his vehicle was ... erm ... something that he did use for work, but unfortunately as a result of the accident his has been written off and he hasn't yet been able to ... er, replace it and so he's having to be erm ... er, chauffeured by ... the company to do his er ... his work.
[432] Erm ... he ... was using at that time an R registered Ford Escort ... er, which was er, only insured third party, fire and theft.
[433] He receives for his employment a take home pay of ... seventy three pounds per week, he lives with his parents ... and pays a board of twenty pounds per week ... he's fortunate in that his employer takes him to work in the mornings but he has to catch the bus home in the evening ... and ... at lunchtime on Saturdays which costs him seven pounds forty.
[434] He hasn't any other commitments and he would ask ... that ... erm ... he be allowed to pay the fine at the rate of twenty pounds per week.
[435] Your worships, those are the circumstances I would ask you to bear in mind that ... this man ... a ha , has four summonses against him purely as a result of ... really ignorance as far as purchasing documents is concerned ... they were in order ... and ... erm ... he would of produced them had he ... realised what the officer was saying to him and ... er, that he would of ... realised had he not been suffering the shock, but he was actually sufferance ... suffering at the er ... at the time of the accident.
[436] I don't think [...] your worships.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [437] Well Mr ... er ... pleading guilty to these offenses ... and we've listened to what ... the solicitor has said on your behalf ... the main offence ... of having no excise licence you'll be fined seventy five pounds ... and be willing to pay eighty pounds thirty three back duty ... and ten pounds costs ... and for the offenses of failing to produce you'll be fined ten pounds for each of those three offenses. ...
[438] We will order the fines and costs to be paid at a rate of twenty pounds a week.
(F7WPSUNK) [439] So ... I make that a hundred and thirteen ... a hundred and twenty three pounds, and the costs are ... thirty three pence?
(F7WPSUNK) [440] Erm ... a hundred twenty six ... thirty three.
[441] Sorry, you're right!
(F7WPSUNK) [442] One, two, three [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [443] [...] [...] ... a
(F7WPSUNK) [444] sa
(F7WPSUNK) [445] hundred and eight
(F7WPSUNK) [446] One two, three three three sir.
[447] So do, you understand that er ... Mr ?
(F7WPSUNK) [448] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [449] You pay out twenty pounds a week the officer of the court is agreed and the address will be given to you by the court usher before you leave ... it is your responsibility to make sure that money is paid each and every week, the first payment is due by next Tuesday.
(F7WPSUNK) [450] Erm ... I'm off sick at the moment ... from work so
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [451] so ... I won't be able to pay the first payment cos, you know ... ain't got no money.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [452] Don't you get any ... sick payment or
(F7WPSUNK) [453] Well erm, I've just come up [...] ... and ... and the accident so ... I'm only entitled to money for the first four days.
(F7WPSUNK) [454] I see.
[455] And when you are likely to be earning again?
(F7WPSUNK) [456] Erm ... perhaps anywhere next week.
(F7WPSUNK) [457] Well I do think give fourteen days for the first payment sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [458] Yes.
[459] You have you fourteen days the first payment ... will be twenty pounds a week thereafter.
(F7WPSUNK) [460] So by ... a fortnight today ... there's gotta be a payment in?
(F7WPSUNK) [461] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [462] [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [463] Alright.
[464] May we go sir?
(F7WPSUNK) [465] Yes, you can leave the court now.
(F7WPSUNK) [466] Thank you.
(F7WPSUNK) [467] Back to case thirty one.
(F7WPSUNK) [468] Miss apparently you represent Mr ... er well I ... I notice from the documents with the er ... summons it was adjourned ... because erm ... their solicitor wrote to say that he will be claiming not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [469] Oh yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [470] Is that the case?
(F7WPSUNK) [471] Yeah, your worships I understand that the ... the prosecution are ... are making application [...] ... I don't that you should go on with this.
(F7WPSUNK) [472] So is it [...] ?
[473] If if it's not going to trial
(F7WPSUNK) [474] When they were
(F7WPSUNK) [475] we'll do it now we'll take it now.
(F7WPSUNK) [476] I wonder if I can insist, it isn't a matter where ... and they have spoken to me about this ... particular case ... and
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [477] Go to forty five your worship.
[478] Sorry, I forgot the
(F7WPSUNK) [479] The view of the prosecution that this is matter ... could be dealt with ... quite satisfactorily by the way of [...] in the court ... were minded to do that, if the court would accept that course of action.
[480] I understand that Mr would be ... willing to be bound over.
(F7WPSUNK) [481] Does that compare with that [...] ?
(F7WPSUNK) [482] Well obviously Miss the magistrates will need to be satisfied there are grounds ... why they should bind him over ... they will also need to be satisfied that there is a fear for the future ... otherwise they will not bind him over.
(F7WPSUNK) [483] I appreciate that sir, but you may feel at the end of the day that you need to hear ... conducts from the case and if he is still present obviously ... whatever the court wishes to do.
(F7WPSUNK) [484] I see, well in that case then I will leave it alone, I'll deal with this a little bit later on, obviously ... it could take
(F7WPSUNK) [485] As you want.
(F7WPSUNK) [486] possibly [...] .
[487] Who else is present Mrs ?
(F7WPSUNK) [488] Er ... number forty one sir, [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [489] Do deal with that your worships ... please?
(F7WPSUNK) [490] Forty one [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [491] Are you Sylvia ?
(F7WPSUNK) [492] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [493] What is your date of birth please?
(F7WPSUNK) [494] Ha?
(F7WPSUNK) [495] What is your date of birth please?
(F7WPSUNK) [496] Er [...] twenty ninth.
(F7WPSUNK) [497] And
(F7WPSUNK) [498] [...] ... Do you plead guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [499] Yeah, er guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [500] Right.
(F7WPSUNK) [501] And you're also summoned that on that same occasion you ... not having given your name and address to any person requiring it at the time, you failed to report the accident at a police station, or to a constable as soon as reasonably practicable and in any case within twenty four hours of it happening ... again, that's an offence under section twenty five of the road traffic act ... to that effect do you plead guilty or not guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [502] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [503] You're pleading guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [504] Yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [505] And finally, that at Worley on the twenty fifth of July nineteen eighty eighty, you being the driver of a motor car ... you failed to afford precedence to a foot passenger on the carriageway within the limits of uncontrolled zebra crossing on King Street ... that's an offence under the pedestrian crossing regulations ... and the road traffic regulation act of ninety eighty four ... to that ... do you plead guilty or not
(F7WPSUNK) [506] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [507] guilty?
(F7WPSUNK) [508] Yes, guilty.
(F7WPSUNK) [509] Right, now listen carefully to the prosecution.
[510] Do you have difficulty hearing?
(F7WPSUNK) [511] Yes, I'm aware
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [512] that [...] be needed.
(F7WPSUNK) [513] Alright, well perhaps ... lu ... turn, turn that way ... listen to lady speaking here.
[514] Just stand as close to her as you like ... as long as you can hear what's she's saying that's the important thing.
(F7WPSUNK) [515] [...] your worships Mrs appears before the court today as a result of an accident which occurred on the twenty fifth of July at about four thirty in the afternoon ... it was on King Street at Worley ... and ... there was only her vehicle involved ... and a young girl who was using the pedestrian crossing.
[516] Apparently at this particular time ... there was a considerable amount of traffic on the road in question ... and ... traffic from one direction had halted ... in order to allow that the young girl and her friend to cross the road ... they began to cross on the zebra crossing ... but, as she reached the centre of the road ... Mrs was driving her vehicle in the opposite direction and she failed to stop ... the young girl, in her teens, was unable to ... take, avoiding acci ... action ... and she was knocked down as she crossed the road.
[517] Apparently she then ... picked herself up and in fact ... ran from the scene ... but ... Mrs didn't stop and didn't make ... enquiries as to who the girl was ... and neither was the matter reported by her to the police in due course.
[518] However, the whole incident was witnessed by another driver who took a note of the car number and in turn, of course, reported it to the police and eventually Mrs was interviewed on the eleventh of August of this year ... she agreed that she was the driver at the time ... and she replied ... it's okay, but if the little had stopped after the accident ... I would of sorted things out ... I couldn't do anything after she ran off.
[519] And that it says, the brief facts, I would ask [...] to consider cost of ten pound.
(F7WPSUNK) [520] Alright then, yeah.
(F7WPSUNK) [521] You heard [...] ?
[522] Ya, you did alright.
[523] Mr was going to speak for you now.
(F7WPSUNK) [524] Yes, your worships I wonder if I may assist the court o ... on behalf of er ... M Mrs ... erm ... Mrs ... er ... has told me that she thought at the time of the incident again was in fact, nearer to five o'clock than ... than, than four thirty ... and ... she was ... driving ... from Billington ... towards Clitheroe ... she had come through the traffic lights at the bottom of Accrington Road in Worley and she was proceeding along King Street ... in Worley er, towards ... towards Clitheroe ... and sh she has told me that at the time there was a considerable amount of traffic on the road and yo ... i in fact had that confirmed to you by ... er, my friend ... er the ... the traffic was ... sufficiently heavy that in fact, the the traffic travelling in the direction of Blackburn ... er was wai ... was backed up to the traffic lights as far as the zebra crossing and beyond it ... and so ... as Mrs ... erm was travelling towards Clitheroe her view of the children on the footpath at the ... opposite side of the road was obstructed by the cars that were ... er, travelling towards Blackburn.
[525] And so ... erm, it wasn't as though these children ran across an open zebra crossing and she could see the children travelling ... er, walking or running all the way across the er ... er er er the ... pedestrian crossing ... the two children one was ... estimated by her to be about six years old, and the one who was actually knocked down was estimated by her to be about ... er, nine years old ... and ... she wasn't travelling at any significant speed at all, she was travelling slowly because of the amount of traffic ... and she says that er ... the first she saw them was ... erm, appearing from ... the ... behind a car and dashing across the front of her car, and in fact, it was only the the ... the ... one who ran first the ... the older of the two children that she actually hit, she hit hit her with the ... near side front of er ... of her vehicle.
[526] She ... hit her and at the same time as she hit her she virtually came to a ... er, a stop ... because of the fact she wa she started to brake as soon as she saw the ... the children appear ... er, but ... ne never the less contact was made but ... thankfully for her and for the child the the contact was a a at no significant speed, the child was just knocked off her feet ... and ... she got up ... and ... waved to Mrs and said I'm alright and she ran off ... and she was away before Mrs had time, even to undo her safety belt to get out of the car.
[527] She accepts that she then ... was confused, she didn't know what to do ... erm ... she didn't think there was any point in getting out of the car which is what sh she should of done, she should of ... tried to make some enquiries about the child ... er, but she ... er, she looked around shrugged her shoulders and ... and then carried on her journey because she didn't think there was anything else ... she could do about it.
[528] And then again, ignorance ... er, at what she should subsequently have done ... er, then took over because she didn't realise that by having had ... er ... made contact with an individual ... erm ... it was necessary for her to report the matter to the police and she just ... didn't realise that that was something ... that she should have done.
[529] Your worships, er, there's nothing at all more sinister in the failure to stop and failure to report than ... than that,i th that is a a ... true record of the er ... er er of the ... incident as far as Mrs was concerned ... erm ... and it is something which ... erm ... comes about ... an accident which came about ... probably through the inexperience of the children ... er, running across the pedestrian crossing thinking that they have priority ... erm ... and not having regard to other road users ... er, and Mrs ... was travelling at slow speed but it was ... she was put in a difficult position by the ... the way in which the children ran across the road.
[530] Erm ... your worships as far as the personal circumstances are concerned ... she is fifty nine years old, she hasn't worked for the last three years she's in receipt of invalidity benefit ... similarly her husband who hasn't worked for the last ten or eleven years ... er, is on invalidity benefit.
[531] Erm ... she ... would ask that and fine that impose today ... er, could be paid by her ... at the rate of five pounds ... per week ... erm, she ... er ... runs a car ... her ... invalidity income ... amounts to forty six pounds fifteen pence per week ... and she also receives ... a super annuation payment from her former employers Goldeson's Hospital at the rate of a hundred and three pounds per month ... but she and her husband ... do have to er ... to run the home and er, and run the house ... er, run run the car ... and she would ask that ... she'll be allowed to pay at the rate of five pound per week.
(F7WPSUNK) [532] Yep. [...] .
(F7WPSUNK) [533] [...] sit down and watch Mrs .
(F7WPSUNK) [534] Oh thank you.
(F7WPSUNK) [535] Sit down there.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [536] Well Mrs you're pleading guilty for these offenses ... and we've listened to what Mr has said on your behalf ... and we're going to be as lenient as we can in the circumstances.
[537] For the offence of failing to stop you'll be fined fifty pounds, you're licence will be endorsed with five penalty points.
[538] For failing to report you'll be fined twenty pounds and your licence will be endorsed ... and for failing afford precedence on ... the pedestrian on a zebra crossing you'll be fined ten pounds.
[539] You will also be required to pay ... ten pounds costs.
[540] That's ninety pounds ... and we will ... order it be paid at a rate of five pounds a week.
(F7WPSUNK) [...]
(F7WPSUNK) [541] So Mrs the court will endorse your licence that means that the fact that you have these offenses er ... against your record now ... will be entered onto on your driving licence by the court, the court will then send your driving licence to the driving licence centre at Swansea ... so that they can er ... also record on your driving record.
[542] You'll get your licence back in about three weeks time from the driving licence centre.
[543] You must start paying five pounds a week ... by next Tuesday ... the court usher will give you the address ... of the court ... but you must make you send that money every week.
(F7WPSUNK) [544] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [545] Alright?
(F7WPSUNK) [546] Right.
(F7WPSUNK) [547] You can go now Mrs .
(F7WPSUNK) [548] Thank you.
(F7WPSUNK) [549] Take care of it.
(F7WPSUNK) [550] [...] Mrs ?
(F7WPSUNK) [551] Mr sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [552] Is that all?
(F7WPSUNK) [553] Yes.
(F7WPSUNK) [554] Oh fine.
(F7WPSUNK) [555] Would you deal with an additional matter please your worships ... er, not on your list he's only been brought in ... almost at the start of the court of this morning.
[556] Carl Robert .
(F7WPSUNK) [557] Is he outside or is in he cells?
(F7WPSUNK) [558] He's in the cell sir.
(F7WPSUNK) [559] I think he'll be m