| PS1SP | Ag4 | m | (Martin, age 50, careers advisor) unspecified |
| PS1SR | Ag1 | m | (Ian, age 20+, student) unspecified |
| FMDPSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| FMDPSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| Unknown speaker (FMDPSUNK) |
[1] Well now erm what it says here is that you want to sort of talk about possible options for a year out and then relevance of archaeology to career in surveying or land management. [2] That's |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[3] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[4] basically what you want to talk about is it . |
| Ian (PS1SR) | [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[5] Okay well what about this year out then. [6] What what do you know sort of what you want to do at all or |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[7] Not not not a great deal I mean I'd like possibly to try and stay in erm the field of archaeology to some |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[8] Mhm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[9] extent erm but obviously I also want to earn some money. |
| Martin (PS1SP) | [laugh] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[10] Cos erm [laugh] I w I'd like to erm do some sort of further qualification after [...] first degree so erm and now whether that is going on to do |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[11] Ah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[12] something with erm surveying or whatever erm through one of these courses which gives you exemption from their sort of passing their exams or whatever, or |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[13] Yes I see. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[14] whether it's to do archaeology heritage graduate which I'm also interested |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[15] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[16] in. [17] [...] that |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[18] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[19] means I've got earn three and a half thousand pounds f five thousand pounds erm at some point to pay |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[20] Er [laugh] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[21] for that and living expenses. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[22] And you hope to do this in one year out do you? [23] You hope to get somewhere towards there anyway . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[24] So well I don't [...] hope to get somewhere anyway yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[25] Yes I see erm er well I suppose the question is erm [laugh] well I mean if the aim is to earn money basically in this year out then d do you have any skills which are in high [laughing] demand and people will pay for ? [] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[26] Well I'm I'm really not sure I mean erm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[27] Erm er or even [laughing] any skills which would make you employable at all |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[28] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[29] is is another you know |
| Ian (PS1SR) | [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[30] erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[31] It's erm I've got I mean I've got a job for the first six weeks already set up with |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[32] Have you yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[33] the department but working as a supervisor |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[34] Yeah yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[35] on one of their sites. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[36] Oh great. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[37] So you know that's about |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[38] That's okay. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[39] seven hundred pounds straight off that I've got . |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[40] Right yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[41] So erm I've got a bit of time also in which to apply for a few things and go and see a few people erm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[42] Yes yes. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[43] so |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[44] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[45] the other option of course is not to do that and to try and gain some experience erm m maybe voluntary for some of the time so that maybe I can then spend you know in another years time get a job which is a bit more relevant and I'll be able to earn some money. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[46] I see yes to transfer so the other aim would be to try and get some skills which er would improve your chances of doing whatever |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[47] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[48] it was you wanted to do in |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[49] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[50] in the end yes. [51] Erm well if if we I mean you're you're probably fairly clear about the archaeology area |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[52] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[53] and you probably know more about that than I do so I won't you know |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[54] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[55] there are other people who could |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[56] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[57] tell you more about that. [58] So erm may maybe we should look at the surveying, land management bit |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[59] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[60] which I must admit I'm not an expert on. [61] But erm my understanding of erm gaining a surveying qualification |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[62] Mhm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[63] is that basically erm you you go and work as a dogsbody and erm graduates are allowed to take the exams within two years and and you'd probably have to go on night school thing or something |
| Ian (PS1SR) | [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[64] to get it you know. [65] But basically there aren't any real really or there are very few decent schemes where they actually take graduates |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[66] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[67] with a view to training them properly. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[68] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[69] And more or less you just earn your bread and butter er doing things I mean it might be in the office |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[70] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[71] doing clerical work or it might be using erm surveying instruments now |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[72] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[73] I mean are you |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[74] Yes yes |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[75] can you do all that? [laugh] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[76] I mean that's that's one of the things I want ed to talk about was the relevance of archaeology to that sort of work I mean certainly I've done surveying you know |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[77] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[78] fairly elementary surveying but more or less I know how to use |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[79] Well [laugh] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[80] a level and er |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[81] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[82] a theodolite and that sort |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[83] Right yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[84] of thing so I would have thought that it's the sort they're looking for . |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[85] Yes well I'm sure there are that you know there there might be some scope for doing that |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[86] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[87] erm er it might be sort of rather like archaeology you know er |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[88] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[89] when they've got to do the road or something they want somebody to do it for the three weeks or |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[90] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[91] three days or whatever it takes |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[92] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[93] to do it and then they don't really want them any more. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[94] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[95] So but but on the other hand if you've got [...] somebody I suppose a firm that was doing that sort of work and they |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[96] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[97] knew you could do it I I'm just not erm at all sure of er how that actually works. [98] I mean erm presumably I mean obviously the local authority has its own people |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[99] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[100] who do that. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[101] Well a a as far as I'm aware anyway from all from reading |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[102] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[103] the information there appears that there should be private companies I actually haven't looked in the Yellow Pages yet actually [...] I should do that and you know and yeah |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[104] No no who do it who do that sort of work yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[105] you know maybe I am the sort of person they're looking for who's already done a little bit of surveying erm to to join as a dogsbody and then over the two years or four years however long it does take erm you know slowly presumably you just get given more responsibilities. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[106] The the |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[107] Erm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[108] the best training for surveying now interestingly we recently had a a thing about this from gosh. [109] I can't remember where it was now but it it was certainly you know probably one of the er new er very new universities you know the ex-polys |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[110] Yes yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[111] and they were running a surveying course in conjunction with the er Inland Revenue which now |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[112] Yeah yeah. [113] Yes I [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[114] Oh have you? [115] Well that's |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[116] Nearly. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[117] er nearly well that's the best thing I've seen for getting sort of properly qualified erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[118] Yeah there there are a number of courses which you do |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[119] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[120] Erm ... most of which are only a year which |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[121] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[122] give you exemption from |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[123] Partial do they? |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[124] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[125] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[126] Some some of them actually give you exemption from all of them although I think they're |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[127] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[128] maybe no only they're more than a year. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[129] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[130] Erm I have heard that there's a particularly there's a good correspondence course with Reading University. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[131] Well Reading does the degrees in estate management |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[132] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[133] so [...] I mean they'd |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[134] Yeah so [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[135] know what they were about if |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[136] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[137] they were running a correspondence |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[138] Erm yeah |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[139] course. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[140] The think is I have to earn money to do those beforehand. [141] You know [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[142] Yes well I suppose it's a question of how much a correspondence course actually costs. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[143] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[144] And it should be relatively cheap. [145] Because I |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[146] Well that's what I thought |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[147] mean you know they don't |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[148] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[149] er I mean it depends I suppose the extent to which there's any tutorial element but I mean erm whether they have you there for a week or something and teach you some of the practical |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[150] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[151] stuff. [152] But but it's obviously very minimal compared |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[153] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[154] with with what you get [...] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[155] Yes I mean I'm wondering if perhaps |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[156] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[157] I mean I may be able to get some money from my parents a little bit |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[158] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[159] erm and with this money that I'm going to earn in the first six weeks and then possibly erm getting a job while I'm doing the correspondence course erm you know even if it's just bar work and [...] especially |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[160] Yeah yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[161] if I'm living at home which [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[162] It would be cheap yeah yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[163] erm then maybe I would be able to do to |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[164] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[165] do the correspondence course. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[166] I think the thing about correspondence courses is that erm y you have to be very good at disciplining yourself |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[167] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[168] you know because there's no sort of backup really I mean alright |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[169] No. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[170] you've got your assignment and it has to be done by the end of the week or the end of the fortnight or |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[171] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[172] whatever it is and you've really got to get it off and then presumably it's marked and |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[173] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[174] maybe there are some things you haven't covered or |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[175] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[176] whatever and maybe [...] if it's a good correspondence course they may refer you to the actual you know things you should have er read and so on |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[177] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[178] erm and then you've got to do that |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[179] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[180] and get on with the next one |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[181] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[182] and and it's really almost all up to you. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[183] I think erm ... I I think I could do that. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[184] Right yeah yeah . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[185] I think if especially if I wasn't if it was one of if it was my main |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[186] Yeah so I mean if you were doing bar work but really that wasn't the main job yes yeah yeah yeah . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[187] [...] erm yeah if that was the case then I would be able to do that. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[188] Well well the thing about it I suppose is that erm er then you've got to take the exam haven't you? |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[189] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[190] Erm but I think I think certainly I would have thought a place like Reading probably half their people set the exams anyway so |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[191] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[192] you know they it should be pretty well |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[193] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[194] spot on for |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[195] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[196] what you what you actually |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[197] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[198] want you know the the key thing is to discover what how much work a week you know how many hours a week they think it's going to take now that's |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[199] Yeah [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[200] actually extremely difficult to estimate really |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[201] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[202] because I mean you know some people are pretty quick |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[203] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[204] and some people are actually rather slow. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[205] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[206] And erm but I mean I remember when I I was doing er work with the Open University now I was a sort of er tutor with them or counsellor with them and I think we used to say ten to fifteen hours work a week |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[207] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[208] erm for one of their subjects you know one of their main |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[209] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[210] er full courses and I think too people tend to say about that level for something like the accountancy |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[211] Right. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[212] erm qualification. [213] So that's probably what you're looking at. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[214] Yeah that's |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[215] Erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[216] that's actually not [...] really . |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[217] It isn't that much is it really not if you're doing bar well well |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[218] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[219] it can work quite well with bar work cos bar work's a real pain cos it |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[220] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[221] splits the day up in such |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[222] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[223] an awkward way doesn't it. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[224] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[225] But if you get in a couple of hours |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[226] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[227] and you work really hard at it and then you go back and do your |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[228] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[229] you know it's |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[230] I mean [...] fifteen hours in in a week is not much at all when you consider how much you're expected to do for a degree [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[231] Right [...] well it may be of course you see on the other hand the accountancy takes three years. [232] Now er it it could be it yes but I think you need to check that to to see |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[233] Ah yes it could be that you're expected to do thirty hours a week. [234] [...] yeah yes right yeah |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[235] what they and they if it's a good course they should actually have some sort of estimate of this |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[236] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[237] you know. [238] Erm and I mean you've obviously got to judge a bit your own capacity |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[239] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[240] to say well if it's a lot of it's erm maybe there's quite a lot of figure work or something |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[241] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[242] then if you're not actually frightfully hot at that |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[243] [laugh] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[244] then maybe that's going to take you a bit longer. [245] So |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[246] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[247] you know you maybe err on the safe side a bit but as you say even if it's erm well thirty hours would be getting |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[248] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[249] er quite probably doable but |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[250] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[251] you don't want much more than that do you? |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[252] Don't want much more than that no. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[253] Oh as you you know. [254] Anyway I think that's worth checking. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[255] I think the er the course actually leads to |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[256] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[257] complete exemption from the the exams . |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[258] Does it yes all the exams. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[259] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[260] Then you've got to get the experience |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[261] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[262] presumably to qualify. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[263] Yeah I think I think once you've |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[264] Erm yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[265] done that you're then you then are in a position to join a firm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[266] Mhm mhm . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[267] properly still probably as a bit of a dogsbody and then you have a sort of |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[268] Mhm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[269] probationary period where |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[270] Erm I mean it depends |
| Ian (PS1SR) | [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[271] what you're looking for I mean there were firms like you know |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[272] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[273] this huge firm in London erm who used to take graduate trainees on |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[274] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[275] but they were much more interested in people of course with degrees [...] but they did take people who hadn't. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[276] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[277] Now if you'd passed the exams |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[278] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[279] They'd er you might it might be worth writing around to see what the or or even ask the people who are running the correspondence course you know what |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[280] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[281] the chances are or or whether the pattern is that you get a dogsbody job in an ordinary firm of estate agents you know and you're |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[282] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[283] doing that and that's working your time out so that |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[284] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[285] then you know I'm not sure either whether of course I mean one would hope that erm the institute would have certain requirements about the erm practical period that you |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[286] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[287] actually had to have experience of |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[288] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[289] X Y and Z you know. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[290] I think there's very strict erm you know [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[291] Erm yeah so so so you might be able to find out from the institute |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[292] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[293] who was offering this . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[294] Yes yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[295] Erm and the approach them and try and find out |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[296] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[297] what the chances were. [298] Cos I I think you probably need to check it out a bit |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[299] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[300] before embarking on you know that. [301] I mean I mean obviously the it may be that erm there's very little these days I'm afraid which is an absolutely copper bottomed guarantee you know but if if if they were able to say well you know yes we do take people who've got the exams you know we took somebody last year or whatever. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[302] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[303] And and you could get a feel for the fact that they did do it. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[304] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[305] Erm then you know that would be something whereas if they say well the recession's so bad we haven't taken anybody for the last five years and your researches can't unearth anybody who seems to be prepared to er give you even half a chance then I mean |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[306] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[307] it's obviously not |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[308] Yeah [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[309] probably a very good idea . |
| Ian (PS1SR) | [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[310] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[311] I mean I think |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[312] Erm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[313] Reading and Sheffield and whoever are doing the course |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[314] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[315] they should have things about who they've placed where? |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[316] Well they should |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[317] Erm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[318] the thing is you have to be slightly careful about those because |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[319] Right. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[320] erm it may depend on what experience the people had before they did the course. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[321] Yeah and you can't tell [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[322] And and if if if you know they had none at all |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[323] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[324] and th you know they came from an arts background fine you know |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[325] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[326] then they really like you. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[327] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[328] Erm but you know if if they've got a couple of years in er something and |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[329] Yeah I mean it is [...] the Sheffield one |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[330] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[331] it says in the brochure that they're looking |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[332] Ah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[333] for people who are er who have already maybe ex a bit of experience. [334] So they've |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[335] Ah yeah yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[336] actually said that so yes [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[337] Yeah so so you've got to be slightly careful but I mean if you already can use theodolites and things then in a sense I mean what do they mean by experience? |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[338] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[339] Erm and er so you know but you've just got to be slightly careful I think of the figures and erm ... i if if you know it's much better if you can talk to the the |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[340] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[341] admissions tutor or whatever or |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[342] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[343] or concoct a letter which asks some very direct questions |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[344] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[345] you know erm er which cover the business of previous experience and [...] or somebody how many people do they have with your particular background of a little |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[346] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[347] er actual practical surveying experience in the context of archaeological digs er and so on you know and can they say what those people have gone on to |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[348] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[349] Erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[350] I mean what what ideally I'd like to do is to go is to get those qualifications and then move into back into the field of of archaeology working with |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[351] Oh I see. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[352] someone like English Heritage, Nation Trust people like that who are lo who are you know who work with erm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[353] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[354] valuers and er you know surveyors that and you know. [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[355] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[356] you know working out the potential of their land and how they can erm use their land and their properties to the best |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[357] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[358] effect so erm [...] whether that means actually working directly for them or working for a company who specializes in erm ... the management of historic erm buildings or environments or areas . |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[359] Yes I th I think you've |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[360] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[361] yes it's tricky isn't it I'm afraid we don't know who these companies are. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[362] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[363] Now that's what you really need to find out isn't it |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[364] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[365] and then to find out what sort of people they've got working for them and what qualifications. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[366] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[367] I mean architects use these sort of people don't they |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[368] Yes yes yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[369] because I remember erm talking to to to one and there are a number in York who |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[370] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[371] do this sort of work. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[372] Well I would imagine so and I th I think if I talk to Jane |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[373] Yes she might have some ideas . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[374] she would be the person who would know about |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[375] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[376] it or Martin maybe. [377] Erm you know |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[378] Mm. [379] Yes yes. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[380] and possibly even go down to the trust and talk to them. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[381] Oh that's a good idea cos I gather the department |
| Ian (PS1SR) | [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[382] and the trust don't quite |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[383] No. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[384] So they might know some different people . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[385] Be better for doing yes exactly. [laugh] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[386] [laugh] yes [...] Yeah yeah mm yeah yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[387] I think perhaps there are a few more places where I can get some information but |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[388] I think the architects cos I was I was engaged in trying to find a sort of temporary work for er somebody in archaeology and and erm I remember I got to s to an architect and and he did quite a lot of that sort of work you know and they |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[389] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[390] would know who do which architects do that sort of work. [391] And I think he was keen on whether the person could do erm sort of surveying of a of a building and actually you know do the drawings |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[392] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[393] for it. [394] So that |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[395] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[396] I mean if you could do that |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[397] Yeah well certainly the you |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[398] then |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[399] know that we've that's part of our training. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[400] Well they they're very interested in that because |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[401] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[402] you know they will have to do that sort of thing as part of a a job and they don't really want to spend time doing it. [403] Erm well it's cheaper if they can employ |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[404] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[405] somebody |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[406] Yeah. [407] I mean I know also one architects firm in Gloucester where I live. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[408] Oh yes. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[409] So that deals with that because when I was originally going to do my er dissertation I was going to look |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[410] Oh yes. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[411] at farm buildings and Jane said get in touch with |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[412] Oh I see. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[413] this this arch this this architect because this bloke is particularly interested in it and he deals with historic buildings and things like that. [414] So erm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[415] Mhm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[416] you know I can always go back there as well. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[417] Well maybe you could have a go back there too . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[418] Yes I mean it's obviously better to work in both places [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[419] Mm. [420] Yes cos you need all the contacts you can |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[421] [...] exactly yes . |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[422] Yeah mm mm yes. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[423] So I think maybe sort of first priority is find out a bit more information then about erm who employs these sorts people. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[424] I think that's right I'm sure the architects do those and and there are sort of architects' practices who are particularly interested in |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[425] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[426] doing sort of historic buildings and so on. [427] Erm and and that of course is the sort of area that you want to get into really isn't it . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[428] Exactly yes yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[429] Erm so they that might be quite a good area . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[430] Yeah I hadn't actually thought of architects so that's |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[431] Mm. [432] And of course there is the institute of advanced architectural studies in the University |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[433] Yes yes |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[434] I mean I don't know whether they and they run this conservation course you |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[435] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[436] see so I mean they should know |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[437] They should know who these yeah yeah . |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[438] who these architects are . [439] Er if you can get in to their see their secretary or somebody er I expect |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[440] I see. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[441] she might be able to |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[442] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[443] you know or or if any of your erm archaeology know anybody in there or something. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[444] I'm sure Jane will |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[445] Yes. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[446] know. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[447] Well she may know who are the architects are anyway. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[448] She I'm sure she will working with |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[449] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[450] R C H [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[451] Mm. [452] I think I think that's a a useful sort of line. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[453] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[454] Erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[455] And also to find out more a bit more about the correspondence course [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[456] Yes exactly you know what it is and |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[457] I mean clearly I I don't think at the moment I'm in a position to to apply for a a taught course because I don't have the money. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[458] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[459] So that's out unless erm you know [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[460] Oh oh that's I was going to say do you do you know about career development loans? |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[461] No. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[462] Well I mean either borrowing the money I'm afraid |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[463] Yeah yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[464] but I mean you know they're what what well there there is a sort file out there on them somewhere. [465] Erm and basically what it is is it's a government sponsored this er which erm well the rules may have changed cos they're always changing the rules of these things. [466] Erm er I think they're probably and and they're putting more effort into getting the unemployed off being unemployed off being unemployed into course aren't they so probably the they may have improved things but anyway the basic erm idea of it was that you borrow money er you borrow erm money to finance a course which is going to get you a job. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[467] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[468] Now you could claim that this work is it's obviously vocational isn't it. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[469] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[470] Erm er and if you had done some researches into the job opportunities and you you could decide that then that that would be good. [471] Erm and the limit was five thousand pounds for one year but I think they only pay half the fees or something of whatever course it is. [472] And it only courses one year's duration maximum one year . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[473] Right yeah well most of these are one year anyway so |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[474] Well that's fine then erm and what what what happens is that you do it through a bank but there are banks which I think Barclays and the Cooperative Bank and maybe one or two others do it. [475] And erm the the the erm scheme is that the government pays the interest while you're on the course |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[476] Right yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[477] and then you have to start paying it back and paying the interest you know. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[478] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[479] So the idea is that you obviously need to get a job pretty quick [laugh] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[480] [laugh] Yeah [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[481] Erm I mean obviously yo |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[482] Yeah I mean I'd I'd like to avoid [...] really |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[483] Going into debt like that if you could but but you might use it to top up |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[484] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[485] you see if you can get a certain amount of money yes I mean take out two thousand or something |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[486] [...] take out a small one [...] thousand pounds short Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[487] Erm it might make a lot of difference to your sort of er |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[488] Yes [...] yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[489] ability to survive the year in without serious discomfort you know to have another |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[490] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[491] thousand quid or something. [492] Erm and then of course there would be a I don't know what the rates of interest are or the payback period but the erm of course the longer the payback period the more it costs you in the end so . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[493] Yes [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[494] But erm I I imagine their rate of interest would be kept fairly low. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[495] Yeah well I anyway I shall |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[496] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[497] definitely look into that cos it could you know it it'd be a bit annoying if I was five hundred pounds a thousand pounds short at the end of the day [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[498] Yeah sure sure you could just do it. [499] And of course I suppose the advantage of that is too that erm if you needed the money to pay the course fees to get on the |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[500] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[501] course well if you get it from them you just get the money and then |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[502] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[503] you could er er |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[504] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[505] actually sort of shell it out erm . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[506] Yeah. [507] Just I mean out of interest the reason why I didn't take Sheffield [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[508] Oh yes. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[509] one was because they er wanted you for four years for definite after that working in evaluation so basically you're committing yourself for five years |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[510] Oh did they oh I see yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[511] including the course time of course. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[512] Yeah. [513] You felt that was a bit long. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[514] So that's why I didn't take it. [515] Well it wasn't working in the field that I want to work in. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[516] No no no . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[517] And I thought you know and I think basically it'd be er sort of assessing the value of buildings for council tax and things like that which is [...] yeah |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[518] Oh it is yes entirely so I'm sure that's what it is basically. [519] Because it's actually part of the Inland Revenue so I mean [laughing] that's what they're about [] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[520] Yes [...] so [...] they they say you know there's all sorts of things you do farms and you get into the country and you do land as well but I reckon ninety eight percent of of their people are doing houses [laugh] so |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[521] Well I suppose you see maybe what they're trying to do I mean as far as I know I mean previously the Inland Revenue or [...] the valuation office part of the Inland Revenue they actually used to run a scheme where |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[522] Right. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[523] worked for them and you qualified while you were working for them. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[524] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[525] And as far as I know that that was the erm most erm sort of financially effective |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[526] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[527] way of actually getting qualified because |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[528] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[529] they really did have a proper scheme and you were paid a sort of reasonable wage |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[530] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[531] and you were sort of given the time and and and er er you know I'm sure they paid for the books or whatever you needed |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[532] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[533] and and they paid the fees and so on whereas er anywhere else you just work for a firm of estate agents and they pay whether they pay you and the qualifications up to you you go off and do it and you know |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[534] You don't really [...] I mean I think I don't know maybe working for a char firm of chartered surveyors you have I mean it's the same system isn't working as a dogsbody and then maybe |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[535] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[536] [...] finally working up and |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[537] Yeah and and |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[538] You have to do it over four years I think if you do it that way [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[539] Oh do you? |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[540] If I think you I mean you can go into it if you've erm I mean the minimum qualification they say is only G C S Es |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[541] Yeah yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[542] Obviously it takes a lot longer to do. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[543] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[544] Erm so perhaps with a degree it would only take maybe three years |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[545] Well I think I think er from memory they the the there is a dispensation in the professional erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[546] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[547] you know qualifications which says that graduates can take it in two years. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[548] Right. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[549] Can sit the exams in two years |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[550] If you're working with a chartered surveyors company |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[551] I think that's probably true |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[552] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[553] I don I don you know erm and so there is a it is reduced. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[554] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[555] And maybe the correspondence slots into that . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[556] Yeah yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[557] Erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[558] And saying maybe you know I should look up [...] see if I can find some. [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[559] Well that's another you know route really al although I think your architects |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[560] Yes I think that's |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[561] If you could work with |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[562] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[563] an architect who was using you er to to to survey and draw |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[564] That would be ideal. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[565] historical buildings and you just worked with him and you took the exams on the side as it were. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[566] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[567] Erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[568] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[569] and he probably wouldn't mind that you were only going to be there for a year or two you know he's getting |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[570] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[571] a good deal out of it so. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[572] So I mean there might even be you know might even you might even [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[573] Might stay on. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[574] his he might be able to get other people from where I've you know from the department here who are also interested in that. [575] I'm sure there |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[576] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[577] will be people who would |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[578] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[579] you know jump at the opportunity to get |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[580] Mhm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[581] to do that so |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[582] Yeah yeah well yes. [583] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[584] Right. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[585] Mm. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[586] I Shall erm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[587] Well does that is that about |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[588] Yes |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[589] about it fine okay |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[590] I mean that's yeah |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[591] that's given you a bit more |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[592] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[593] food for |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[594] Yes. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[595] thought and so on. [596] Yes and and a sort of a bit of a way forward. [597] Well you sound pretty organized [laugh] compared to some of them. [598] Erm and you do have a definite sort of track to look at. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[599] Yeah I mean a few months ago I had absolutely no idea at all what |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[600] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[601] I was going to do so |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[602] Yeah yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[603] erm I was slowly sort of pulling a few ideas out of thin air. [604] And [laugh] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[605] Yeah yeah well it sounds sounds as though it's possible you know you may have to I mean in the end you might have to sort of compromise it and actually do this valuation thing. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[606] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[607] You know if that was only way to get qualified . |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[608] Yeah. [609] I mean I think I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to have to do one maybe two years more before I get anything like |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[610] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[611] into the field that I want to be in you know I don't think it's possible to just walk straight in unless you're very lucky . |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[612] It's no no |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[613] It's erm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[614] Yeah the other thing you might keep an eye on is erm try to develop computing skills. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[615] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[616] You know as you go along I mean |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[617] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[618] if there's any or or doing that in addition to something you know erm |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[619] Yes I mean we do do |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[620] You do some. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[621] some and I have done a little bit on AutoCad which is erm making maps and things |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[622] Oh right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[623] and you do bui plans of buildings on it and that sort of thing as well. [624] Erm so I may sort of look into it a bit more maybe get a bit more experience |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[625] Yes. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[626] and it's erm |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[627] I suppose of course in fact the that sort of computing is is is fairly erm specialized isn't it |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[628] Mm. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[629] really in a way. [630] But I think even if you're familiar with computers generally and have good keyboard skills that's [...] |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[631] [...] and also knowing what's available and you know how things work |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[632] Well that's yeah |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[633] [...] like [...] or something |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[634] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[635] where you take a picture of a building and you |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[636] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[637] can see which |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[638] Right. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[639] er parts are old and [...] things like that and |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[640] Yeah. |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[641] all sorts of things which are available which if I just brushed up on so at least if I went to an interview I'd be able to talk about [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[642] And you could talk about it yes I I think that's it. [643] You've got to be able to put on a bit of an act |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[644] Yeah yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[645] at the interview. [646] If they subsequently discover that actually your knowledge is pretty sketchy but at least you've got some well |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[647] Yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[648] you probably at least know enough to go off and get started |
| Ian (PS1SR) |
[649] Yeah yeah. |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[650] and then sort it out you know. [651] Mm great . |
| Ian (PS1SR) | [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[652] Okay well good luck with it anyway . |
| Ian (PS1SR) | [...] |
| Martin (PS1SP) |
[653] [laugh] Oh oh right I'd better turn this thing off now erm [tape ends] |