| PS1SN | Ag5 | m | (No name, age 75+, course director) unspecified |
| FUFPSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| FUFPSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[1] [...] they will need [...] teachers' [...] and if you can bear that one in mind. [2] Erm ... I've got an information pack here which I'll hand out at the end of the session and it's got sort of four fairly erm useful leaflets in it. [3] One's a general [...] superannuation. [4] Er there's one that talks about about age inherited [...] benefits. [5] And one that talks about pensions [...] and other dependants and then there's a leaflet erm which gives you certain facts about re-employment after retirement. [6] If you'd like to take those away with you [...] will actually erm reinforce some of the things that I'm going to say during the next hour. [7] So as far as the actual topics I'm going to cover are concerned, erm ... can everybody see [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[8] Turn the lights off shall we? |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[9] Erm talking about the various types of pension that are available under the teachers' scheme. [10] Erm a little bit about contributions and additional contributions and the actual benefits that are available and [...] . [11] Could I ask that we take any questions at the end of [...] session. [12] ... So the actual types of pension and the applications of them. [13] Er there's normal age retirement, premature retirement, and and premature retirement with redundancy two or three really you know can go together. [14] And then there is the infirmity pension. [15] As far as the normal age retirement goes. [16] Erm this is available to teachers and lecturers erm at the age of sixty. [17] Because you can remain in service until the age of sixty five, if you so choose erm and draw your pension, you do actually have to apply for normal age retirement. [18] Er because if you don't actually make out formal applications, you know come your retirement nothing will happen. [19] It's not actually automatic because you can stay in for those extra ... up up to five years if you so choose. [20] Erm the actual there's a pension and a lump sum payable and this is based on your total amount of pensionable service. [21] That's really service on which teaching service on which you have paid contributions. [22] It also includes erm reckonable service which is is service other than teaching that you may have transferred into the scheme. [23] So things like erm service from another superannuation scheme or if somebody's been paying [...] you know extra contributions to actually boost your pension lump sum, that is actually reckonable service. [24] But it all counts at the end of the day in in calculating your pension and lump sum. [25] Erm so to actually make application for the pension you need to apply to the education personnel group erm and you'll need a an application form fourteen A pen. [26] ... Once you actually receive a copy of this it's in two parts. [27] The first part you need to complete, part A and this has got your personal details bank details it asks about your family details for [...] family benefits and it asks if you are in receipt of any other oth other pensions [...] . [28] Erm asks for an indication of whether you are likely to be taking up teaching service after retirement. [29] And and having completed that, you send it back to the personnel group at county hall. [30] We will then complete part B which gives the Teachers Pensions Agency details of your actual service and salary since the last annual return. [31] That's an exercise that we complete each year actually updating the Teachers Pensions Agency of your particular service details. [32] So we complete that information, er tell them when you are actually finishing teaching er I E the last day you'll actually be, your last day of actual teaching and the last day to which salary will be paid. [33] And we then return that to the Teachers Pensions Agency in Darlington. [34] ... As far as these forms are concerned erm it it's best to complete them about four months before your actual retirement date. [35] Er in the summer term particularly, at the end of the summer term those retirements [...] thirty first of August because as you can appreciate they are sort of inundated [...] applications at the end of the academic year. [36] So you know the sooner it can be sort of processed, the sooner they can actually get working on it. [37] ... The D E S actually calculate your pension, they authorize payments by the Paymaster General's Office and er notify notify you of your actual benefits that are due. [38] Usually about two to three weeks before the actual time and date. [39] ... That's normal age retirement. [40] Er premature retirement. [41] ... This is available to people age fifty or over with the er necessary amount of qualifying service which is generally two years. [42] Erm and it's available to those people whose employment ceases in the interest of the [...] functions. [43] Again there's a pension and a lump sum payable and there is also the possibility of enhancement. [44] The enhancement is entirely discretionary. [45] ... If erm if there is enhancement payable erm that part of the pension will ultimately be paid by [...] County Council [...] by the county council. [46] So it will be quite separate from the amounts of money that you are receiving from the erm Paymaster General's Office. [47] Applications for premature retirement erm they're dealt with slightly differently in the sense that once an application's actually approved, you will be issued with this with this form or a similar form to this one. [48] So if somebody is offered premature retirement and they accept the offer, that form's automatically sent to you you don't actually need to apply. [49] And that's really because it's it's erm you know it's for people under the age of of sixty. [50] The redundancy erm ... if somebody leaves under [...] redundancy situation then there is an additional payment of redundancy payment payable. [51] Erm again for those people have to be ov over [...] fifty years of age and we operate in the maximum enhancement er provision. [52] Which can be up to ten years, providing that doesn't take your service over forty years at the age of sixty or over what you would have attained had you remained in service until the age of sixty five. [53] [...] ten years enhancement in redundancy cases. [54] Erm and the difference between premature retirement and redundancy basically is you do receive this additional one off redundancy payment. [55] That's a tax free payment [...] . [56] In [...] erm these are available to teachers who are under the age of sixty whose erm [...] . [57] To the extent that they can no longer satisfactorily perform their duties. [58] Erm if anybody is actually interested in [...] could I actually refer you to somebody in the personnel group erm Lynne . [59] Lynne can actually give you you know more detailed information on infirmity allowances. [60] Basically you do see enhancement in these cases. [61] erm it's an automatic enhancement and it depends on your actual length of service and you know when you actually apply for the for the infirmity allowance. [62] So it does vary generally speaking it tends to be six and two third years. [63] ... And again there is a lump sum and er an annual pension payable. [64] But they they are for for teachers under the age of sixty. [65] ... Any questions at that point? |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[66] You said that er the redundancy payment was non taxable which I'm delighted to hear. [67] Er what about the lump sum, do we pay tax on that? |
| (PS1SN) |
[68] No the lump sum is also tax free. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[69] If you're wanting to take er early retirement and erm you're wanting enhancement say you retire at fifty nine and you want some enhancement, can you ask for enhancement sort of up to sixty five or has it only got to be up to sixty? |
| (PS1SN) |
[70] Up to sixty. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[71] Sixty. ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[72] Anything else? ... erm contributions and additional contributions. [73] ... You you actually contribute six percent of your salary and you know that's that's the sort of basic contribution. [74] Er the [...] pay eight point nought five percent so that's a total contribution of fourteen point O five percent to the er scheme. [75] The index linking of teachers' pensions is actually that's actually met by the government and not the teachers' superannuation fund. [76] You can there are various ways of actually increasing erm your pension ... by paying additional contributions. [77] Erm you know if you are short on service or you actually want to top up erm your total pension for service at the end of the day. [78] And there are basically three ways of doing it. [79] Erm there's a [...] . [80] There are additional [...] contributions with the Prudential and you could if you if you wanted you could also pay free standing A B Cs through erm a company of your own choosing. [81] In total you cannot actually pay more than fifteen percent ... of salary to erm these ... well to contributions so in effect you you're already paying six percent as your basic contribution so the maximum you could pay on any of these schemes is a further nine percent. [82] Erm but you know they are the actual Inland Revenue [...] . [83] As far as [...] years are concerned erm it's actually a scheme which allows you to [...] gaps in your career. [84] ... It's quite a costly scheme because you're actually paying both the employer's and the employee's contributions. [85] Erm but if somebody has had a gap for whatever reason, it is often the only method of actually covering it if you want to do something that involves the teachers' superannuation scheme. [86] And the cost of what you're actually buying back, the service you're buying back is basically governed by your age and your salary and the amount of time you want to buy back. [87] And there are various methods of actually erm paying these contributions. [88] [...] by monthly instalments or by lump sums. [89] Erm anybody who's who's interested erm if you'd like to ask for a leaflet aft at the end of the session because the main thing is that you do have to take advantage of this while you are still employed in reckonable service. [90] Erm so you have to do something now before you actually retire. [91] Having bought back the service then erm that is what I referred to earlier as reckonable service. [92] You [...] to buy back however many years you buy back will count in your pension and lump sum calculation at the end of the day. [93] ... Something that's not actually mention there is withdrawn contributions. [94] If I can just briefly mention them. [95] Erm [tape ends] |
| (PS1SN) |
[96] [...] first of June nineteen seventy three, can actually be repaid providing you are still in service. [97] Erm and the amount that you repay is the amount that you withdrew er plus compound interest at three percent per annum, so it's actually a much cheaper method covering covering that service. [98] But it's only available if your contributions were withdrawn before the first of June nineteen seventy three. [99] Has anybody actually taken advantage of that? [100] Yeah I mean what you actually well you'll find that what you repay ... erm you know that the benefits you receive in your pension lump sum will far outweigh the cost of repaying those contributions. [101] So if anybody you know did that and hasn't yet repaid them I would strongly advise you to do that. [102] but it's only available for contributions that were withdrawn before the first of June nineteen seventy three and [...] you know if you didn't meet that particular date then the only other way of of covering gaps is [...] which is far more expensive. [103] Erm it actually talks in this fourteen A pen makes reference to the fact that the approximate cost of one year to buy it back it would add twenty under a [...] years arrangement. [104] Twenty percent of your current salary. [105] Additional voluntary contributions with Prudential erm since about nineteen eighty eight the Prudential erm ... entered into a scheme with the Teachers Pensions Agency er whereby you can actually er pay additional contributions to the Prudential. [106] They invest them in various ways and at the end of the day you can use that erm policy to actually top up your pension or provide for increased family benefits and because it's a [...] the administration costs er costs are sort of less than than you get with erm you know sort of taking out a policy with an individual company, on a one off basis. [107] So it's erm the deductions are actually made from you know through the county council payroll er each month. [108] And you receive an annual statement erm and at the end of ea end of period or when you a are actually retiring then you will be contacted and you'll receive you know sort of guidance on how to [...] that money. [109] [...] circumstances at the time. [110] The third option of paying extra contributions is free standing A B Cs. [111] Erm [...] you know that's that's [...] taking out er a private policy. [112] A policy with the sort of company of your own choosing. [113] Erm which er the Teachers Pensions Agency or the county council will have no involvement in at all. [114] [...] entirely up to yourself to actually make provision to erm increase you know your own pension. [115] ... If anybody does want further information on A B Cs erm in the booklet in the information pack, the Your Pension booklet, it's it's actually handled through the Prudential the office in Reading but there is the address is given in [...] booklet. [116] ... Any questions about [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[117] [...] Yes I have got one. [118] W with regard to the A B C erm conflicting advice [...] from two sources. [119] Erm the gist of it is that the money from the A B C er i you're not allowed to go over your forty eightieths of your pension with it. [120] Now i is that right or wrong? ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[121] It's probably right but it doesn't actually count in that calculation it's something quite separate. [122] You know the money that that you're paying in A B Cs isn't classed at the end of the day as erm reckonable service. [123] It's a separate facility. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[124] Yeah. |
| (PS1SN) |
[125] So |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[126] But the money coming in from that A B C erm ... it was somebody from Grimsby who got into terrible trouble not not problems really with the T P A. [127] Erm having made these contributions erm he got a note to the effect from the T P A that erm some of the money that he paid in [...] to the A B C had to be repaid to him as a lump sum because the money coming from that sum would have taken his pension over the forty eightieths. [128] And the T P A for some reason weren't very happy about this so they re actually returned a lump sum to him. |
| (PS1SN) |
[129] Yes yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[130] So he paid the A B C, went early as a result of ill health er but got a lump sum back cos he wasn't allowed to go across this. [131] Now from the Prudential erm an entirely different picture. [132] You know you're allowed to go up to nine percent as you say and you just pay as many years as you like. |
| (PS1SN) |
[133] Mm. [134] I mean we don't actually get that involved apart from the fact that we did originally have a leaflet. [135] I know [...] actually only Prudential they are leading a campaign round schools I believe erm you know trying to get more teachers interested in A B Cs. [136] Erm but I mean we do have erm a [...] session with them and ... and really all the information we gave was very sort of basic [...] understanding. [137] I think that one would probably need to be clarified directly with them [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[138] Okay yeah thank you very much. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[139] May I say Sandra I think this is probably an Inland Revenue ruling. |
| (PS1SN) |
[140] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[141] Because when the when all these schemes are set up they're only by agreement with the Inland Revenue and the forty eight year element will be one of the essential |
| (PS1SN) |
[142] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[143] points of agreement. [144] And although they're the A B Cs are with a separate body you're still working within your scheme. |
| (PS1SN) |
[145] Right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[146] So you're I'm I feel sure that it it is so. [147] That you're limited to forty eightieths. [148] Or if you're with another body that's agreed er seventy five er eightieths or whatever |
| (PS1SN) |
[149] Yeah [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[150] then you would be limited to that [...] . |
| (PS1SN) |
[151] [...] you've actually got somebody form the Inland Revenue haven't you? |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[152] Yes. |
| (PS1SN) |
[153] During the next three days. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[154] Right. [155] Well I am here yes but er er not an expert. [156] [laugh] No I think it is the basic part of he agreement [...] setting up the original superannuation scheme. [157] That all cont all er payments would be limited to forty eightieths. [158] Although I've never I've not met this element before it's rather interesting. [159] I was not aware that they were |
| (PS1SN) |
[160] [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[161] [...] they needed to refund A B Cs. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[162] Er I think my wife would like to take advantage of er buying back the service of the earliest before nineteen seventy three. |
| (PS1SN) |
[163] Right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[164] To whom would you apply? |
| (PS1SN) |
[165] She would need to contact the Teachers Pensions Agency |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[166] Right. |
| (PS1SN) |
[167] in Darlington. [168] And |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[169] Yeah how [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[170] the address is the back of [cough] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[171] Can you make erm A B C contributions for past years? ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[172] Well I suppose you could erm ... I suspect it would be cheaper than [...] but it wouldn't actually increase ... your pension per se at the end of the day because it's as I said it's a separate you know it's a separate sort of erm income to your pension lump sum. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[173] Yeah. |
| (PS1SN) |
[174] But I mean if you had a gap you I suppose you could probably compare the the difference between [...] and A B Cs. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[175] [...] haven't got any but I understand there are tax advantages [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[176] Well yeah the tax is erm deducted at source if you like you know before [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[177] This is as opposed to a lump sum. |
| (PS1SN) |
[178] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[179] Yes. [180] ... Because if you pay |
| (PS1SN) |
[181] I think you'd really have to you'd probably need to look at the [...] booklet and then speak to erm one of the Prudential people about ... you know the amount of time you were considering ... paying contributions and the probably just weigh up the ... [...] benefits of of each scheme. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[182] Right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[183] The tax advantage is that if it's A B Cs by deduction you get tax relief, if it's by lump sum you don't. ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[184] Anything else? ... erm the actual pension benefits that are payable. [185] As I said earlier the the pension is based on your total amount of pensionable service and that's teaching service on which you paid contributions. [186] So erm ... if you haven't opted out of the scheme er [...] full time service, part time service if a teacher had elected to the part time scheme, and a supply supply teacher if a teacher had elected to the part time scheme. [187] Erm and any other service reckonable service that counts in that calculation. [188] Er for example erm any service that has been transferred in from another scheme. [189] You know if you were previously in the civil service or some other private scheme which is transferable into the teachers' scheme. [190] That all counts at the end of the day in your pension and lump sum calculation. [191] ... Er normally as I said earlier payable at the age of sixty erm and the benefits are based on average salary which is the best three hundred and sixty five days out of the last ten ninety five so it's the best year out of the last three years salary. [192] For the average salary. [193] Erm time of your actual service ... and all of your service is aggregated over you know over your career. [194] So if you do have some breaks [...] erm subsequent service is added on to that. [195] So at the end of the day you'll get a total amount of er years and days ... times the average salary and that divided by eighty. [196] In your lump sum you've normally er three times the pension. [197] Where it will differ is if anybody has any service before the thirtieth of September nineteen fifty six ... for that part of the lump sum the calculation is based on erm ... is based on a [laugh] sorry oh one thirtieth of each year. [198] Sorry about that. [199] Erm whereas under this post thirty nine sixty six service is based on three eightieths of each year. [200] So it does make a slight difference to the erm the lump sum. [201] But generally speaking it's three times the pension. [202] The lump sum is a tax free payment. [203] The erm pension is taxable as earned income. [204] Any absences that you've had erm for sickness [...] full or half pay actually count in full for in these calculations as do erm any maternity leave absence you know providing you were actually receiving pay that's half pay or more then those absences count as if they haven't actually occurred. [205] ... That's just an illustration. [206] Erm ... [...] thirty three years and a hundred and fifty days service. [207] [...] you know [...] are worked through and and in that particular case all the service is actually [...] September ninety fifty six. [208] And you actually find the lump sum is [...] times the annual pension. [209] ... The pensions are actually paid monthly and the payment date actually coincides with the day of the month in which you're actually born. [210] And the lump sum will be paid immediately after you finish teaching. [211] So for example if you finish on the thirty first of August, on the first of September the lump sum should be paid into your account. [212] And the same would actually apply to the erm redundancy payment. ... |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[213] [...] when the pension starts |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[214] When the pension starts. |
| (PS1SN) |
[215] When does it start? |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[216] I heard you mention the day you were [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[217] Yeah that's when it's actually paid. [218] The actual payment date. [219] So I mean if you were to finish on the thirty first of August then [...] on the first of September. [220] But if you for example you're [...] born on the sixteenth of the month then that's generally when it would be paid on the sixteenth. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[221] The actual monthly pension the the lump sum would be paid on the first of September. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[222] The enhancement from the [...] does that [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[223] No in the case of a premature retirement where there is enhancement erm that's actually payable on the last banking day of the month so that will tend to be anything from the twenty eighth to the thirty first. [224] So that's that's always at the end of the month. [225] You may obviously you're going to have two payments coming in but you may well find that you know they're no longer on the same sort of day. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[226] So the lump that you take the lum the the part of the enhancement that is the lump sum |
| (PS1SN) |
[227] Yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[228] That will from the authority the part that the authority pay, when is that when will that be paid in? [229] You've said that the erm |
| (PS1SN) |
[230] Pension |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[231] T P A will pay the the large part [...] on the first of September got that. [232] Now when will the part that the authority pay for the lump sum come in, will that be at the end of August or the beginning of Sept or the end of September . |
| (PS1SN) |
[233] It should be at the beginning of September. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[234] Right. [235] So it should come at the same |
| (PS1SN) |
[236] It should be |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[237] time as the other one. |
| (PS1SN) |
[238] Yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[239] Right. [240] But the the pension itself |
| (PS1SN) |
[241] At the end of the month |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[242] The the the authorities part will come at the end of the month and the T P S will come on the your birthday. |
| (PS1SN) |
[243] That's right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[244] Birthday date. |
| (PS1SN) |
[245] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[246] Yeah got you. [247] Thank you. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[248] Erm about income tax are they all taxed at source or do we have to do that separately. |
| (PS1SN) |
[249] I think they're actually taxed at source. [250] But |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[251] The ... the payments [...] Sorry I wasn't I was just thinking. |
| (PS1SN) |
[252] Right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[253] Yes they're dealt with [...] same way [...] there's hardly any break between payment of salaries and onto superannuation. [254] There's usually a change of paying departments not always but you'll find no no break apart from er the lessening of income. [255] [...] entirely as as you mentioned it's regarded as earned income. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[256] So it's it's taxed at source. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[257] At Yes in |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[258] the same way as salary. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[259] As your salary is. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[260] Yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[261] Thank you. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[262] Yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[263] Can I ask erm the the authority bit of early retirement what happens if erm the county is disbanded under local er government reorganization which is a distinct possibility? [264] Do do the other authorities pick up that automatically? [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[265] [...] I don't know what would happen. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[266] The answer must be that somebody will pay. |
| (PS1SN) |
[267] Well presumably [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[268] It's called the unitary authority [...] the new one would be [...] and I think [...] suggestion is that the city would go separate as opposed to the county. [...] ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[269] The pensions are index linked erm to take account of [...] cost of living. [270] [...] increases are applied erm in April each year. [271] ... Eligibility for such increases if somebody takes premature retirement and they're actually below the age of fifty five the increases don't apply until you attain you fifty fifth birthday. [272] At that point your pension will be brought up to date and you would see an increase then and annually thereafter. [273] Erm in cases of infirmity pensions, erm ill health retirements I mentioned previously the increases apply there from the very start so irrespective of the age in infirmity case the erm the increase does apply. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[274] Well your redundancy payment is a one off |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[275] Pension pension. |
| (PS1SN) |
[276] It it depends what you would get if your under the age of fifty five yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[277] Yeah. |
| (PS1SN) |
[278] Redundancy payments [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[279] Yeah the pension's frozen for five years and and then catches up. |
| (PS1SN) |
[280] If you if you [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[281] Under the age of fifty five. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[282] Yeah. ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[283] Erm can I move on to family benefits now a word about family benefits. [284] ... er the teachers' superannuation scheme [...] the payment of erm widows widowers and children's pensions. [285] Erm ... and there are basically a short term pension is available. [286] Long term pensions for widows widowers and children. [287] There are also dependants' pensions. [288] And erm a payment which is known as the death grant. [289] So if a teacher actually dies in service you know whilst you are still employed in [...] service er ... first of all [...] actually be a death grant payable. [290] Erm there are various calculations for this but it's it's going to actually be at least one year's average salary. [291] There would also be a short term pension payable er and this would be paid for three months at the rate of your pension or pay at the time of death. [292] And that's paid erm to your spouse to you know to keep things sort of flowing if you like while the long term pension is sorted out. [293] So at least there's income coming in for three months at the rate of your salary. [294] Thereafter ... long term pensions they are payable erm at whatever rate you provided for. [295] So if all your service counted [...] benefits the long term pension would actually be half your pension. [296] For the married men all service from the first of April nineteen seventy two counts erm for family benefits. [297] Before that you had the option of paying additional contributions to cover previous service so you will no doubt know if you actually took took up that option. [298] If you did then the chances are that all your service will count for family benefits. [299] Er for the married ... married women erm, only service for the sixth of April nineteen eighty eight counts. [300] So when that provision was introduced, you too had the option of paying additional contributions to cover previous service. [301] Erm obviously if you didn't, then the widower's pension will be quite a bit less cos we're only talking about [...] from nineteen eighty eight. [302] Erm children's pensions they would be half the widow's or widower's pension and they're payable for dependant children up to the age of seventeen and for children who are in full time erm higher education and for one child the payment would be actually half the widow's or the widower's pension. [303] If there were two or more children, then you would actually receive erm ... twice that amount so you'd receive half the [...] pension. [304] So if you like the that pension plus the the widow's or widower's would equate to your pension. [305] ... Dependants' pensions, it's possible for er single people to actually nominate a financially dependant close relative to receive erm pension benefits in the event of your death. [306] You do actually have to make these nominations whilst you're employed in pensionable service. [307] Erm and that nomination would subsequently lapse should you marry or erm on the death, marriage or remarriage of the person that you actually nominated. [308] If anybody actually erm would wish to pursue this one, you actually need a leaflet eight six one pen. [309] [...] perhaps like to mention it at the end of the session and I can arrange to get one of those sent to you. [310] But you do have to make this nomination whilst you are employed in reckonable service. [311] And again the person that you nominate does have to be financially dependant on you. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[312] [...] ? ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[313] I'm I don't know precisely. [314] It's it's quite a quite a while. [315] Quite a few years. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[316] Am I right, for any of these er nominations, you have to set aside part of the pension you would normally receive so that you actually receive a lower pension because you are making this provision. |
| (PS1SN) |
[317] Erm I think that's possibly [...] a term called allocation. [318] Where you can actually allocate part of your pension and to your spouse up to up to a third actually . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[319] [...] Yeah. |
| (PS1SN) |
[320] Erm to increase their benefits . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[321] Mm. |
| (PS1SN) |
[322] Erm ... so so that is possible it it actually does mention on the fourteen pen it does erm where you can surrender part of your pension to provide a ... a pension for your spouse or dependant after death. [323] So you can allocate up to a third. [324] The thing is having done that erm if circumstances change you couldn't actually you can no longer access that amount . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[325] [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[326] Also am I right, the person [...] in the provision has to be [...] ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[327] Yes it does, it's If anybody's interested in that provision, the allocation provision you do need to er to write to the Teachers' Pensions Agency. [328] Explaining that you know you either want further information on it or you would like to erm you know take that one up. [329] ... The same provision applies I mean if ... you allocated s so much of your pension and that person died then there's no way you can actually access that amount that you've allocated. [330] It's once you've allocated it it's erm you know it's actually gone from your from your calculation. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[331] So it's a risk you have to calculate. ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[332] Yeah I suppose it is. [333] Erm I know one of the erm one of Bernard's colleagues doe say that it's erm ... it's [...] I suppose it depends on your individual circumstances. [334] ... [...] I suppose you've got to weigh up sot of various [...] . [335] ... Any further questions there about er the benefits if you were actually to you know if you were to die whilst employed in reckonable service? [336] ... The family benefits that would be payable when a pensioner dies, [...] very much mirrors erm those that would be payable if you were to die whilst employed in pensionable service. [337] ... There would be a short term pension normally paid for three months. [338] This time it would be at the rate of your pension. [339] as opposed to your actual pensionable pay. [340] Erm the long term pension again would be at half your pension at best. [341] Erm the same provision applies to the children's pension. [342] ... Half the rate of the widow's pension for one child and it would equate to that amount if there were two or more children. [343] ... The same provision is extended to dependants' pensions. [344] As far as the death grant goes, erm for a pensioner that would only be payable erm if somebody actually died within year of leaving pensionable service, due to ill health, and they were not in receipt of an infirmity pension. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[345] So if you're knocked down by a bus, that doesn't count. |
| (PS1SN) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[346] If you had an accident and you died as a result |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[347] I mean it's got to be some some illness I suppose that |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] |
| (PS1SN) |
[348] So ... so apart from the death grant erm the other the short term and long term pensions tend to mirror erm you know what would be payable should you actually die in service. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[349] You said children would receive it if they were still in full time education, higher education [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[350] H higher education. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[351] Did you say higher [...] ? |
| (PS1SN) |
[352] Mm. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[353] So [...] |
| (PS1SN) |
[354] Well in full time education yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[355] So even though they could be sort of twenty five? |
| (PS1SN) |
[356] Yes I mean we had a case recently I think the son was twenty four [...] all these perpetual students. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[357] Would that apply if they'd been independent but gone back into it? |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[358] That's what my son's doing. |
| (PS1SN) |
[359] Yeah. [360] I'll check that one out for you actually I don't know. [361] I I suspect it would. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[362] Mm. [363] Right. |
| (PS1SN) |
[364] You know if if they were if they were in erm in full-time education at the time . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[365] It would depend on [...] was claiming the grant and [...] or whether he was claiming the grant in his own right. [366] If he was claiming a grant in his own right he would be classed as independent. [367] If he was claiming a grant in yours, I did I claimed when I went back to college, [...] my twenties I actually claimed a grant but my father claimed income tax relief [...] claimed under him [...] . [368] But if you claim it in your own right you'll be classed as independent, no longer dependant on you therefore you he isn't your dependant any longer. |
| (PS1SN) |
[369] That I'll check I'll check that one out. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[370] Mm. |
| (PS1SN) |
[371] Yeah. ... |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[372] Can I make it quite crystal clear to my own mind, long term pension benefits it doesn't come automatically it only comes if you surrender part of your own pension thus making provision for [...] . [373] It isn't in addition to the pension you're getting, you have to be willing to give up part of your own pension in advance. |
| (PS1SN) |
[374] I think that's that's what I understand as allocation . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[375] Mm. |
| (PS1SN) |
[376] Dependant's pension is when you nominate a [...] dependant person to receive benefits in the event of your death. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[377] But |
| (PS1SN) |
[378] Which is quite separate to allocation. [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[379] So you don't have to surrender part of your pension with [...] in mind. |
| (PS1SN) |
[380] Dependant's pension no no. [381] No you're entitled to that you know that's the [...] If you have actually nominated somebody and that nomination has been accepted by the Teachers' Pensions Agency. [382] ... But you you wouldn't be able to nominate your wife as a dependant. [383] They would automatically say forget it. [384] Erm it's a they talk here about nominating a parent, a brother or sister, or a widow's step-parents. [385] Unless the benefits would actually automatically pass to your parents. [386] Erm ... Any further questions on family benefits? |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[387] Presumably if spouse has died, [...] |
| (PS1SN) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[388] Can I move on now to re-employment. [389] ... Er re-employment after retirement and the effects on your pension. [390] Increasingly people are retiring earlier and you know asking about returning to work. [391] Erm As far as how much you can actually earn without affecting your pension, those queries are dealt with specifically by the Paymaster General's office in Crawley. [392] Erm and the de the details for for the P G O are given in this re-employment leaflet which is in the information pack. [393] Erm but they deal with the how much you can earn without affecting your pension. [394] The Teachers' Pensions Agency in Darlington actually determine what type of work affects erm your pension. [395] Your re-employment earnings. [396] ... So if you become re-employed after retirement in a post which is outside of the education service, the civil service, local government, erm private industry, self employment, that work will have no effect on your teacher's pension. [397] Also if you do any full or part time lecturing in University, that will not affect your re-employment earnings. [398] But a former polytechnic, for example Nottingham Trent University, any work there would affect your pension. [399] So full or part time work in University excluding the former polytechnics, have no effect on your pension. [400] The reason for that I understand is that erm the sort of former universities, it's something to do with the superannuation scheme [...] quite separate so it's all sort of based on their superannuation schemes. [401] Erm as far as teaching employment goes, full or part time teaching, supply teaching in erm a local authority school, or in independent schools which participate in a teachers superannuation scheme, will actually have an effect on your pension. [402] Now as far as actually calculating what effect, the re-employment earnings will have on your pension, er basically your pension and your reemployment earnings cannot exceed your salary reference. [403] And the salary reference is the highest salary rate you've actually received during the last three years. [404] It differs slightly from the average salary which is which is the best year out of the last three. [405] The salary reference is actually the highest salary rate. [406] Erm and that's the rate that the Paymaster General's Office use to determine erm you know how your pension will be affected. [407] That salary reference is actually index linked each year so that your earnings can you know can rise without erm being affected. [408] ... as far as part time work goes and supply work, because erm that work is sort of quite spasmodic I suppose it can be I mean some people do a regular amount some do bits here and there. [409] Erm they they work on er quarterly earnings. [410] So within a pension quarter, the same ruling applies in that your pension and your re-employment earnings cannot exceed a quarter of your salary reference. [411] And they measure the quarters from your birthday from one quarter to the you know the day in the next quarter. [412] So if you like the first quarter will probable it'll be pro rata that's going to be less because it's it's only part of [...] . [413] Erm what you need to do if you are re- employed er you need to let the Paymaster General's Office know, and there is a form in the this leaflet asking you various questions. [414] For example you know where you're going to be working and what the rate of salary is. [415] How much you know you're expecting to do, part time, full time etcetera. [416] Erm and we find in the office that we get lots of forms coming in from the Paymaster General asking us to confirm that mister X is employed you know on a on a part time basis. [417] Erm now we advise you to fill that in once you do return to work because at least then they can let you know if you are going to exceed the limit. [418] You know if you didn't fill it in, they would act actually catch up with you at some stage and you may erm if you had exceeded the limit be erm you know you may be issued with a demand for a cheque ... for X for X number of pounds for overpayment of pension. [419] So I would advise you to you know complete that form at the outset really just for your for your own sake. [420] If you'd like to know specifically how much you personally can earn, without affecting your pension I would also suggest that you actually write to the Paymaster General's Office [...] will work out the amounts erm [...] you know the figure that you've got based on your particular circumstances. [421] In cases of ill health, re-employment after ill health retirement, erm ... [...] you cannot return to work until you have been medically cleared. [422] You know be medically fit to return. [423] Er the same sort of provi provisions apply. [424] The only difference is, that erm if you return to work in a part time capacity, and it amounts to half time or more, then you will subsequently be asked to undergo a medical examination. [425] And if it's determined that you are [...] to return to work then your pension would actually will cease. [426] So I think that's you know that's an important fact for anybody who is taking ill health retirement. [427] But erm you know they do sort of keep a close eye on what they're working unless of course they they are hoping to erm for their health to improve and to be able to return to full time teaching ultimately. [428] But you know they they really need to watch how much part time work they are doing because it could mean that their pension will be suspended if they did work too much. [429] generally speaking I think you can up to about half time without having any effect on your re- employment earnings. [430] ... Er the other thing is if anybody's taking premature retirement, you should also notify the Treasurers the County Treasury at County Hall, because re-employment earnings can have an effect have an effect on the erm enhancement that you receive. [431] But the superannuation section at Treasurers would actually work work that one out. [432] Erm again I i wouldn't have thought that you know odd days here and there would have any effect but if if it's going to more long term and the you know the amount increases then it could have an effect on your premature retirement compensation. [433] ... Any questions then? |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[434] What happens on the [...] you may not be employed [...] ? |
| (PS1SN) |
[435] Erm the Teachers' Pensions Agen Agency's currently reviewing erm the work that can affect pensions. [436] And I've had some conflicting information recently because, not very long ago they did say that any part time hourly paid lecturing in a college would have no effect on [...] pension. [437] But it did seem somewhat of a loophole actually but they ac are actually now re-examining that one, er and I think erm I mean they've since said that it does affect you know it it would be counted as work. [438] As would sort of consultancy work, work undertaken on a consultancy basis. [439] At the moment the advice they will give you is that erm you're okay, but they are reviewing the regulations and once they actually er reach a decision then that work will be [...] . [440] But generally speaking the criteria they tended to use was, if if it was work that would normally be superannuable under the teachers' scheme then that that was work that would affect re-employment earnings. [441] But part time hourly paid lecturing for example isn't eligible work under the teachers' superannuation scheme although they are bringing that one into into the work that can affect [...] . [442] So they are really tightening up [...] . [443] ... Anything else on re- employment? |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[444] [...] question about if you get employment outside education although, [...] has no effect whatsoever on |
| (PS1SN) |
[445] No. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[446] on so in and you don't even need to notify the Paymaster General or you don't have to notify anybody [...] employment outside the teaching area altogether. |
| (PS1SN) |
[447] I think it does suggest in here that erm you should notify the Paymaster General's Office, even if you think that it is not [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[448] Even if you're right outside if you're industry or whatever. |
| (PS1SN) |
[449] Yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[450] Thank you. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS1SN) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[451] And why are we telling them this if it's not eligible for consideration as a possible way of depriving us of an cash? |
| (PS1SN) |
[452] I don't I mean probably it's just to be to the safe side. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[453] Mm. |
| (PS1SN) |
[454] It's that that's simply the advice the advice that's given by the Teachers' Pensions Agency. [455] You know either way to actually just let the P G O know. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[456] Mm ah |
| (PS1SN) |
[457] But definitely to let them know if it if it is sort of teaching |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[458] Mm. |
| (PS1SN) |
[459] teaching [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[460] I think there's one advantage in letting the Paymaster know because he deducts tax at source, whereas your second employer may not, and it may be to your advantage to be paying tax |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[461] Ah. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[462] in a paya P A Y E [...] . [463] Otherwise you'll have a lump sum later on. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[464] I see thank you, or gets paid in cash [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[465] Mm. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[466] They catch up with you one way or another. |
| (PS1SN) |
[467] Sooner or later yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[468] [...] could that affect your income? ... |
| (PS1SN) |
[469] Yeah i I would advise you to contact the er notify the superannuation section yes of any re-employment if you've taken premature retirement. [470] Yeah how much effect it does have I don't know because where [...] but I think it's it's really [...] basis you know it's better to be safe than sorry. [471] ... Okay? [472] Right that's it can I wish you all a long and happy healthy retirement. |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) |
[473] Not the best of subjects to inject a little bit of humour but we did find er traces of it nevertheless. [474] Anyway shall we show our appreciation [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUFPSUNK) | [applause] [tape ends.] |