| PS1U3 | Ag4 | m | (Gordon, age 50+, training manager) unspecified |
| PS1U4 | X | m | (Brain, age unknown) unspecified |
| PS1U5 | X | m | (Mike, age unknown) unspecified |
| PS1U6 | X | f | (No name, age unknown) unspecified |
| PS1U7 | X | m | (Philip, age unknown) unspecified |
| PS1U8 | X | m | (Anthony, age unknown) unspecified |
| PS1U9 | X | m | (Thomas, age unknown) unspecified |
| PS1UA | X | f | (Jane, age unknown) unspecified |
| FUGPS000 | X | u | (No name, age unknown) unspecified |
| FUGPSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| FUGPSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[1] Right. [2] ... Over to you ... |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[3] Oh sorry ... |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[4] Do you want to put that on the full screen? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[5] Right so here we've got er the criteria surrounding P L C. [6] I'm gonna start in reverse order. [7] I ain't gonna start with the strengths we're starting with the ... the threats basically to to that s er [...] . [8] Basically it's in the news at the moment and it's er ... very prelavent to the criteria surrounding the company at the moment. [9] So reading down there ... number one threat, the shareholders. [10] And most of you ... are probably aware ... that last year the the company tried to ... renege on their P L C P L C status and buy out existing shareholders erm ... and the furore surrounding that erm the price that they were trying to ... repurchase the shares from the [...] existing shareholders ... er caused a lot of discontentment ... er surrounding that scenario. [11] So the actual shareholders themselves, I think there's about ... forty one thousand of them, ... in total are quite a big threat to basically the the management of the company at the moment with regards to the direction of the company and the actual opportunities ... er for the future expansion and development of products and various market segments etcetera. [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[12] Sorry [...] |
| Brain (PS1U4) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[13] Oh terribly sorry. |
| Brain (PS1U4) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[14] I didn't think we'd started. |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[15] I won't repeat it [...] |
| Mike (PS1U5) |
[16] Can you can you say that again? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[17] Right d developing the angle on the shareholders [...] is the non-executive directors. [18] Erm within the last two or three months I think they've appointed three or four non-executive directors. [19] Erm ... the main difference between a non-executive director and a [...] director basically is that the directors are added to by the shareholders and are re-elected at the annual general meetings. [20] These people are basically independent to the company but they are appointed ... basically by the directors of the company in a [...] capacity and basically [...] er another safeguard or a check on the actual management ... what you would call management er governance of the company. [21] And it was one of the critici criticisms ... that came out of the er I think it was one of the annual general meetings [...] non-executive directors in there ... to oversee ... er basically as another control against ... Mister himself I suppose really at the end of the day. [22] That's what they're trying to aim at. [23] ... Moving down there, market barriers. [24] Er and that basically ... erm entails the fact that there's er a lot more er competition basically coming from Eastern Europe. [25] It's not just [...] er a case of er ... North America dominating the computer scene there erm ... [...] er tariffs and trade barriers and what have you ... erm in various non E non E E C countries ... which i compose quite a ... stumbling block for future [...] and expansion in various ... developing countries. [26] Especially the Pan-Eastern Europe er Pan-Eastern Pacific ... area. [27] Which is quite a fast developing and growing area at the moment. [28] Overseas competition ... basically there again is ... I mean ... er erm ... okay I mean I B M I mean they're collapsing day by day and ... companies like I C L and what have you. [29] And basically it's it's the actual thrust of overseas competition basically. [30] ... Not necessarily Eastern Europe but also from the Pacific Basin again there. [31] So we're looking on Global terms here ... erm basically ... and also within the E E C so basically ... to get market penetration. [32] You can't just sort of think think about North America [...] get it in isolation, you gotta look basically as ... E er Euro P L C [...] market place. [33] The economic climate obviously ... the present economic climate in the U K, E E C and the world is not exac exactly er assisting in any shape or form with regards to the development or growth or even stability. [34] Erm so basically it's not just er a threat to the the actual market in general it's an even more acute threat to individual places within that market. [35] As ... er competition becomes even more fierce and er competitive and ... yeah well the threat of threat to the ... the weaknesses which are connected to some of the threats actually [...] . [36] Right ... okay we'll work form the top down actually. [37] Alan there ... quite a big weakness within the company. [38] ... Erm by the city [...] in the city institutions of London he's seen as quite a a robust character ... but ... they don't quite see eye to eye on the issues [...] of the company. [39] Public relations ... well ... as I've already outlined there the actual fiasco surrounding the proposed er share repurchase there ... was a public relations nightmare form beginning to end. [40] And also with regards to product development and actual ... er image of the company there, the relations side is ... quite weak. [41] [...] Financial performance that is basically the financial strength or weakness of [...] at the present. [42] Obviously it's losing market share ... price competition impinging right down to the bottom line left right and centre. [43] It's actual product range is ... very fragmented. [44] Erm basically ... leading down there the products and corporate strategy there ... they're having difficulty identifying what their product range [...] . [45] Who who their individual competit competitors are within those product lines. [46] ... So they haven't actually gotta formed a corporate strategy on the actual prod product development. [47] Financial ... individual erm competition within each market segment [...] . [48] ... Opportunities. [49] ... Right here we go yeah number one opportunity satellite T V. [50] And that nost that is not necessarily just based within the U K. [51] It's it's it's [...] the thing that's er keeping them going in various aspects but obviously, definitely on the European scale there ... er satellite television ... is an area which I would be very very surprised if they did not er develop a hell of a lot more. [52] ... Infrastructure, that's related to the actual infrastructure of the er microelectronics, electronics and ... computer software market within the U K as as a rule. [53] Erm basically as a new market opportunities come ... he's gotta develop er and adapt to those any new opportunities that do arise. [54] ... Be it new products, new competition and new markets that do arise. [55] And I mean the actual ... the U K market those in those areas is quite developed and has got quite a reputation but obviously it has got ... to be able to develop develop and adapt accordingly ... over time. [56] Market demographics yeah. [57] ... Erm ... basically it's ... er [...] like the collapse of I B M makes a [...] the total world market, things like that. [58] And that's gonna create opportunities but also ... er the possibilities of joint ventures ... be it on a U K, Europe or the world basis er ... joint ventures will [...] I mean a lot more cooperation between er th the large players with regards to product development what have you. [59] Rath rather than competing against each other to develop ... basically their products have gotta be ab able to work with each others machines. [60] [...] sort of exchange technology [...] ... research and development. [61] ... And that basically that amounts to standardiz standardization of products. [61_1] So basically [...] I B M P Cs [...] and things like this [yawn] like that. [61_2] We can actually er ... use various actual computer equipment er open systems [...] er recently new development as well which basically a lot of companies have been inputting their share resources to develop this area. [62] ... Er the [...] market [...] we're looking at there the Pan-Pacific basin there especially showing a ... [...] market at the moment. [63] ... [...] till the end of the decade ... er I think it's ... [...] number one d er developing market [...] so ... that's the place that you want to get into. [64] ... The last ... they have actually got some strengths. [65] Erm ... number one strength Alan erm ... although he doesn't see to eye T eye eye to eye with er a lot of the city institutions and a lot of the shareholders ... erm he he does know his business ... erm ... and he has quite a strong character, very forceful and [...] . [66] So he's ... er in quite a strong position with regards to the actual ... corporate governance and strategy of the company there which is ... [...] . [67] The management staff, good quality staff, very high highly technical expertise etcetera so they've got [...] staff there. [68] ... Non-executive directors, that is a strength ... erm it's also a threat [...] but it is also a strength but basically it's acting as a ... sort of yardstick to control or actually guide the actual management right down from board level right down the company there. [69] ... Research and development. [70] Well I'm only gonna a month ago they did actually er ... officially announce the launch of a [...] product there ... it's the pen writing pad personal organizer there. [71] So basically it's like a little computer there ... and it reads your handwriting basically on your little ... electropad there. [72] [...] like a glorified er filofax. [73] Two hundred and ninety nine plus VAT is the ... [...] retail value ... [...] . [74] ... Erm ... which is ... points up a weakness there on the public relations side there I mean going back to their ... post share repurchase [...] they said that they'd got no new products in the pipeline, no research and development [...] ... really sort of throwing ... anything up in the near future [...] . [75] [...] Two or three months after that he's got a new product out ... they're trying to keep it slightly quiet and saying that it's not a world beater and ... [...] sort of er ... go back to their more in innovative [...] . [76] But there again that's [...] the shareholders er don't see [...] ... you know like to get a bit more er information and good public relations for the company. [77] And ... as a general outline it's a strength of the company U K P L C the actual ... computer market within the U K has [...] worldwide reputation for its quality, technical expertise and it has already got a good er holding in various companies all around the world. [78] A being on a telecommunications base and the actual software associated with that as well. [79] ... Erm thank you ... any questions? |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[80] Could you leave it on the ... the er |
| Brain (PS1U4) | [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[81] projector there |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[82] Right yeah. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[83] thank you. [84] ... Right anybody like to make any comments on that? ... |
| Mike (PS1U5) |
[85] It was quite long. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[86] Pardon. |
| Mike (PS1U5) |
[87] It was quite long. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[88] Quite long quite long yes but I |
| Brain (PS1U4) | [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[89] don't worry about the length [...] the content at the moment. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[90] [...] thought gone into that isn't there? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[91] Yeah. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[92] Er one observation I would like to make is that you actually got certain items appearing in ... er more than one place. [93] Erm that tends to be unusual but in this particular case it is very relevant. [94] And the the fact that you've got Alan there in the strengths and weaknesses is ... without Alan may struggle ... significantly because it's it's his management style, his vision which drives a company on. [95] But the the weaknesses is that er he because he's a P L C then he's got to erm ... kowtow to the system to the er the city ... and therefore erm ... that is always going to be seen as a problem for him ... as am individual. [96] He's gone part of the way along the r road by doing what you've just been describing [...] non-executive directors but erm it could be a weakness if he's seen as a er ... erm a business man and cavalier as opposed to somebody who fits in with the style that the city's always looking for. [97] ... Yeah? [98] ... Any other comments? [99] ... Alright well let's leave that one ... for the moment. [100] Erm thank you very much Brian and the team well done. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[101] Next group ... |
| (PS1U6) |
[102] Now I'm sorry I haven't brought an acetate. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[103] You haven't you're gonna draw right okay. |
| (PS1U6) |
[104] No oh just |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[105] Did you want a pen then to write on the board or not? |
| (PS1U6) |
[106] Erm |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[107] There's a pen there. |
| (PS1U6) |
[108] There's lots of them [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[109] There's lots of them okay well |
| (PS1U6) | [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[110] Erm it's entirely up to you if you want to write up you can. [111] There's a pen I think in the white box behind you. [112] But if you want to talk straight that's okay. |
| (PS1U6) |
[113] Yeah right okay I'll talk [...] unless anyone wants me to erm put them on the |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[114] Right. |
| (PS1U6) |
[115] board. [116] We've chosen er British Rail for our slot as opposed to Waterstones. [117] And I'll go through some strengths that we feel they have and the monopoly obviously ... is one of the er major strengths. [118] Intercity gives them a very good image ... if your journey was on time but it's definitely there as a a positive thing. [119] Erm straight into the city centres of most major cities so you er if you travel by train you're there in the centre if that's where you want to be. [120] Erm ... with the electrification we feel that it's a ... very clean and green way of travel. [121] Erm bulk movement of materials ... and the national network it has. [122] We [...] opportunities are privatization but we've also said that is a threat. [123] Er specialist trains would be an opportunity we felt and the history of er trains to emphasize that. [124] The communication that they now have with electrification. [125] Franchises and train leasing ... we think are opportunities but still possibly underneath the er umbrella of British Rail. [126] Weaknesses, inflexibility of working practises. [127] The image ... erm particularly on the time keeping ... of trains. [128] Aging rolling stock particularly in the Southeast. [129] Overcrowding on certain trains. [130] Poor safety record. [131] Erm ... vulnerabilit erm vulnerable infrastructure and poor customer relations. [132] ... The catering we feel could do with erm ... er ... improvement. [133] I know they've had several attempts at that but we still don't think they've got it right. [134] And we think er in some cases it's very expensive. [135] ... And not happy about the structure of pricing for travel [...] whether you have a single or return or s ... erm a saver they er they don't seem to make sense in many cases. [136] Erm the weakness is er ... government requirements often inhibit ... [...] . [137] Er threats, ... again as I said privatization, lack of funds, ... road haulage, ... safety ... erm again bad. [138] ... [...] open profits making lines ... will survive ... we feel that's a threat. [139] And er because of that then the price is out of the range for a lot of people to travel by train. [140] ... And coaches ... long distance travel are coming in so that again is a threat to the erm ... using British Rail. [141] And the economic climate which we think is obviously a weakness [...] . [142] And those are ... what we've ... thought out for British Rail ... . |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[143] Thank you very much. |
| (PS1U6) |
[144] Thank you. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[145] [...] . [146] Any questions on that any comments? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[147] Yes I don't agree with the poor safety record, in in in my view and I think it's supported by fact ... that rail is the safest way to travel ... anywhere ... any time. [148] Erm ... this is quoted funnil finny enough by air travel, ... that without question rail is the safest way to travel ... and in fact [...] to me that's a strength not a weakness. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[149] M my my view of that was that's the one I'd a question mark against |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[150] Yeah. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[151] cos [...] I don't think it's the problem of a ... erm a safety record I think it's the perceived |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[152] Right. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[153] safety record |
| (PS1U6) |
[154] Yeah. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[155] it's the perceived safety record yeah |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[156] because in fact the statistics show it to be very very good indeed. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[157] Yeah. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[158] Erm and it's a bit like timekeeping I mean they they've got their own system now for evaluating how good they are at time keeping and I think the ... erm ... the figure they try and hit is about ninety five percent isn't it of trains arriving on time. [...] |
| (PS1U6) |
[159] I think it's the image that so many trains are late. [160] Yes It's the image that Yeah |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[161] [...] Well that's the problem. [162] That's the problem. [163] Again if you think about how many people actually provide their goods on time to their customers ninety five percent of the time or provide the goods and provide them on time that record is their record is very good. [164] It's the perceived |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[165] But Gordon haven't haven't |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[166] Yeah yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[167] British Rail shifted the goal posts on time. |
| Mike (PS1U5) |
[168] Yes. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[169] Right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[170] Because they couldn't meet ... c couldn't meet what they were previously doing they have altered it in such a way as to make it easy to achieve. |
| Mike (PS1U5) |
[171] They've just added time on to all the journeys. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[172] Yes. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[173] But they've they've been doing that since er last century. |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[174] Yeah but you gotta remember these are ... that these are being posed on basically |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[175] They'd be setting their own goals, targets and what have you. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[176] Yeah. |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[177] And they're having ... [...] these ... X billions to finance er capital investment cos cos they're not a private company. |
| (PS1U6) | [...] |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[178] I mean the furore about actually leasing trains has taken several years to develop ... erm ... And you just have to look at [...] at the moment now and he doesn't know if he's sinking or swimming basically. [179] Er [...] a complete dead loss about which way to go and turn basically. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[180] Yeah yeah. |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[181] Erm ... [...] you go back onto the performance guidelines that have been basically imposed ... [...] citizens charter really at the end of the day. |
| (PS1U6) |
[182] Well yeah I mean [...] |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[183] But a lot of I mean [...] ... I mean there's no sort of set- up and strategy for rail as a ... sort of within an integrated transport policy [...] phone call from er John Prescott who er [...] Tories in in transport. [184] ... [...] there's no sort of like ten year corporate strategy for British Rail. [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[185] You were gonna make a point there. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[186] Well I was gonna come back on this record of safety. [187] I mean one of the points we made there was that the infrastructure is vulnerable. [188] I mean just because ... it might be safer to ... travel on the train doesn't ... [...] from the fact that the incidence of ... where people gain access to the rails ... and ... there are near misses either to the drivers or the people on level crossings ... or everything else. [189] They're all added in just because they don't have an accident ... doesn't might go for making it the safest ... infrastructure perhaps. [190] So safety is a thing which is ... can't just be said Oh it's it's safer to to go by train than it is to cross the road. [191] It's getting worse. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[192] It depends if you're in the right place at the wrong time or the wrong place at the right time. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[193] I mean y you you take a situation of ... stuff getting dropped from bridges ont in front of trains. [194] You know ... quite apart from the fact that you get a situation where somebody sets fire to the infrastructure ... and it closes down the whole of the East coast main line like it did two days ago ... . |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[195] It's vulnerable. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[196] but nevertheless its er its safety record is still a damn site better than the roads. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[197] What did you say about the cost [...] ? |
| (PS1U6) |
[198] Yes well the thing is that the erm we feel [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[199] What ... it's the structure for the a for the average person. [200] If you're if you're say a family with small children yes you can get all sorts of con concessions. [201] If you're a student you can get concessions. [202] If you're an old age pensioner you can get get concessions but for the average person who who isn't one of those no chance. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[203] Well the the situation is also that it's confusing in terms of Apex, Supersavers, Savers, Nonsavers er you can't travel on these trains at certain times, you've got to plan your journey three months ahead if you want to get the maximum savings and all the rest of it. [204] You know i it's |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[205] Yeah ... you wanna have subsidies yo that you get on foreign rails you know you get |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[206] Well that that's one of the arguments for remaining under government funding. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[207] [...] next to nothing can't you over in ... some countries ... . |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[208] So it's confusing or overcomplex |
| (PS1U6) |
[209] Yes yes it is yes that's right it is. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[210] Yeah. |
| (PS1U6) |
[211] Yes I mean we can understand that if you're gonna get a cheaper ticket you'll have to book well ahead and obviously they've got to ... to try and ease the the overcrowding on ... some trains. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[212] There's one other point |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[213] The sa the same applies for [...] pricing ... virtually to anything else if ... if you're going to take the maximum advantage of flying by air you either have to book it well in advance through a package or whatever or whatever or else you'd have to go along and sit in a bucket shop hoping that somebody's gonna |
| (PS1U6) |
[214] Yeah that's right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[215] turn up with an empty seat. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Mike (PS1U5) |
[216] It's not as not as simple as that though. [217] I mean if you walk into the station on a day wanting to get on a train there are still several different fares you can pay. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[218] is different from the cost per mile down South ... on tickets as well. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Brain (PS1U4) |
[219] there's no standard thing |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[220] [...] over the Southeast market cos they've got a captive market. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[221] Why does it cost me ten pounds fifty return from Darlington but if I take a single to Darlin to Darlington from York it costs me ten quid. |
| (PS1U6) |
[222] Yeah that's right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[223] I mean [...] anomalies and there's different prices if you go from Cardiff to Bristol it'll cost you X amount if you go Bristol to Cardiff it costs you something different. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[224] They wanna get their act straight. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[225] So it's the over-complexity of pricing. |
| (PS1U6) |
[226] Yes. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[227] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS1U5) |
[228] I I had er a return ticket from York to Gloucester and I was fortunate enough to get a lift back ... so I went into the station to ask if I could get a refund ... on the other half of the return and they said Sure you owe us four pounds. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS1U6) |
[229] Because the price of a single was almost the same as the price of the return but to get a refund you have to pay an administration charge which when you add it all up comes to me owing them four pounds. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS1U6) |
[230] And then they tried to take and I said Well thank you very much I won't have a refund after all. [231] and they tried to take the bloody ticket off me. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[232] Oh I'm surprised they didn't charge you for the cost of a single journey. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[233] Right okay any more points ? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[234] Erm another strength I think erm and this is once again point of view but it it literally is er is the track itself track access. [235] You y if you set out on a train under normal circumstances you're confident that you're going to arrive in London at [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[236] At some point soon. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[237] As my daughter did on Sunday in two and a half hours. [238] And er on the other hand you can get in your car and you can get down to [...] suddenly find they've got the the road up or E G as we did coming down to York today [...] there's [...] driving his ... his er surface lifter down the road and and er you're stuck in a traffic jam for a wee while er |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[239] It can still happen on the train [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[240] [...] now now you're guaranteed you're you're stuck on electric ... all you need is one fault at Northallerton two days ago and you close the East coast main line completely. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[241] [...] it's more it's more |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[242] Everybody who was on those trains |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[243] it's more unlikely. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[244] Yes but on the trains you're stuck. [245] Now in the car you can say Oh sod this I'll back-dive and double, drive this way, down there and you you skip it. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[246] When you go and buy your ticket and you're setting off on that day |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[247] Mm. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[248] erm ... you're warned in advance of any delays aren't you. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[249] wonderful wonderful last Easter weekend back from Glasgow we were warned there was gonna be delays and we were fortunate we were one of the groups who came back fairly early. [250] There were other people who started back at midday ... from Glasgow and got to York at midnight to find all the loos had been closed ... and things like that. [251] When it happens with a train it's it's one hundred percent you're absolutely stuck with the thing. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[252] you know if you've ever been stuck in this you know you've got an appointment somewhere ... you know the the frustration's incredible. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[253] The sa the same thing can happen with air travel. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[254] blooming airport overnight. [255] Or else you can be on the way back from from from Europe and suddenly find, Oh I'm sorry that plane's not leaving tonight Mister would you mind going and spending the night in the holiday hotel in so and so and so and so. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[256] Ah you spent the night in a Holiday Inn great on a train you're stuck on the train. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[257] It doesn't make [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[258] The same thing could happen if you walked out of here this afternoon there there could be a bomb s threat between A and B wherever you're going ... and you can't even get round [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[259] [...] a bomb threat on a train than I would in an aeroplane Robert. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[260] Okay I think we'll ... as I thought we could actually start the discussion [...] [tape ends] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[261] Well who's gonna who's gonna be using the erm |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[262] Erm ... right er can we make a start ladies and gentlemen. [263] Erm good day er my name is Philip ... er I am the quality controller for the proposed Water Company. [264] Er and I'd like to introduce you briefly to the company. [265] Erm as the result of a a board of directors decision taken on er March twenty second nineteen ninety three ... it was proposed that a a new public liability holding company named the Water Company be formed ... er from the capitali er capitalization of assets currently surplus to requirements of the founding company namely . [266] Er the York based company will be a wholly owned subsidiary of limited. [267] Er trading is er expected to commence within the with the naming of the company at an opening ceremony at the registered office headquarters in York. [268] The ceremony to be held on the twenty fourth of April nineteen ninety three. [269] Er it is proposed that the Water Company er be formed with the express intention of capturing eight point five percent of the United Kingdom bottled water market. [270] Er this being gradually achieved over a three year phased expansion period. [271] Erm in year one growth ... is expected to be within a targeted range up to two and a half percent. [272] In year two er up to six percent and in year three eight percent of the United Kingdom bottled water market. [273] The founding company is being [...] use surplus existing production, manufacturing ... sales, distribution and transportation capacities in the United Kingdom currently operated by limited. [274] Er to that end now er I would like to hand you over to [...] progressively to my colleagues. [275] Er and the first gentleman I'd like to call on er is Mister Anthony who is our Marketing Director to give us a market overview and assessment of the product opportunity. |
| Anthony (PS1U8) |
[276] Okay. [277] Thank you very much. [278] Right now good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. [279] And as my colleague has already stated [...] we're a new company and we aim to capture eight percent of the ... er U K bottled water market. [280] Erm the way we've er determined this is through research by a market intelligence unit er which has been aided by retail market intelligence and utilized er [...] as the basis of our research and our calculations. [281] ... Er we've used this to analyze the consumer preferences and purchasing questions indicated erm ... through through this research. [282] And they indicate there that there are excellent opportunities opening up in the United Kingdom bottled water market across the full range of available products commonly consumed and [...] specifically identified [...] friendly product ranges. [283] The total available market consists of thirty percent of the total population of the United Kingdom. [284] But this market is expanding at a rate of at least five percent and predictions and calculations show that this is [...] far in e in excess of this base rate. [285] The two ranges the firstly still water ... and secondly bottled s sorry the two ranges are firstly still water and secondly sparkling water. [286] Both ranges will be produced using both high quality Yorkshire Pennine water and good quality ergonomically practical [...] using the York [...] ... er using [...] ... a good quality ergonomically practical co containers ... using the own brand label. [287] It is our aim to exploit this growing market [...] the full range of resources and materials and systems that are available [...] ... er as previously mentioned by my colleague. [288] Erm our marketing has been targeted on a geographical basis er on three main areas. [289] The London region, Yorkshire and in Scotland. [290] Again erm all of this information erm provided er backs up our ... er our plan.Further market research based upon [...] information has refined our target area groupings by socio and ec economic group, age and sex. [291] Where these key indicators illustrate the most favourable conditions ... er we are going to base our main advertising campaign and I'll now hand you over to my colleague [...] . |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[292] Er thank you Tony for that most illuminating insight into the bottled water market. [293] Erm and I should now like to introduce er Thomas , Director of Public Relations, who will talk us through 's product brands and competition followed by a detailed review of where our product fits into the market and it's U S P. ... |
| Thomas (PS1U9) |
[294] I wanna Right the products erm ... the product brands and opportunities erm. [295] The main competitors are are Perrier Water with te twenty four percent of the market, Highland Spring with six percent, Well's Soft Drinks own label [...] er twenty eight percent, Nestle four percent, er [...] Coca-cola Schweppes four percent, Evian fifteen percent. [296] And there are forty other companies ... erm which have eighteen percent of the market. [297] Er [...] Okay ... other com competitors we've we see are er all companies which sell mineral water. [298] Erm [...] to include ourselves. [299] Erm people like Tizer, people like Coca-cola. [300] Now these are huge companies with vast volume of sales in the flavoured er drinks market. [301] Now we see ourselves entering into this market ... not immediately ... but in the not too distant future. [302] ... Er our intention would be to direct our advertising towards the natural fresh qualities of the product and the powerful lobby of the Greens. [303] However ... the flavoured water is not our first priority. [304] At a later stage erm in our program we would also be looking at larger containers of erm of water er something like ... well in our third year ... erm five litre ... canisters. [305] ... Now another very another and very important er competitor is the water boards. [306] Erm and they have problems with er the quality of water ... and the sa standards not re reaching the sort of specifications er the pu public not trusting the er product and and consequently looking for alternatives. [307] ... Er seasonal shortages erm the droughts of recent years particularly in the Southeast have made supplies of good drinking water less than secure. [308] Erm and er ... that's where erm records show us that er ... wa bottled water is [...] . [309] Erm as it happens this is the area where a spring of mineral water [...] here for er for us to exploit. [310] Erm fluor fluoridation erm er this is a particular prob problem for many people who don't like additives to water. [311] Erm and spring water produced within the regulations of the E C would be pure of any additives. [312] ... Our market we see our market as being national. [313] ... would give us their backing and channels of distribution ... er we shall be in correct in direct competition with our competitors in the a areas which we consider to be most profitable. [314] ... We shall place our advertising where it will be most cost effective. [315] ... And we shall continue to update our sales strategy ... as we see the the market develop. [316] ... Our product ... our product ... is first class Yorkshire spring water obtained from the springs rising from the Pennines ... bottled in Yorkshire to comply with ... erm U K national mineral water regulations ... E C directive. [317] Er we shall be producing it in three hundred and thirty C C bottles to meet the demand for mixer drinks and a small bottle for trade market. [318] [...] will be produced in both still and sparkling excuse me [...] ... as per bottle. [319] ... We shall be producing in Tetrapak ... and for s er for machine vending and supermarket shelves. [320] ... In litre bottles er both still and s sparkling for use in bars and in and in a house where there's regular use. [321] In two in two litre containers ... still only in this case to cater for those people generally er generally needing a larger supply available in the home, in caravans etcetera. [322] ... [...] ... All these will be competitively competitively priced erm alongside market leaders in price for quality. [323] ... Whilst we recommend a retail price for all sizes as with all similar product on the market ... it will be up to the vendor to adjust for the prices ... the margins that they require. [324] ... Our unique proposition ... is bottled in blue glass [...] ... erm ... [...] the unique proposition er bottled in blue glass to ref reflect the clean ... cut image which is different to our competitors. [325] ... And also using the distribution of ... of deliveries to the door daily we can also use the sales staff to as assist us in distribution. [326] Okay right [...] ... |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[327] [...] pretty encouraging view of approach to the bottled water market and to the anticipated stance therein. [328] Er I hope that now that Anne who is our very capable financial director will enlighten us with a breakdown of costs and an insight into [...] targets with attendant indicators of relative volumes. ... |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[329] Right erm I'm not sure actually whether you're going to be able to see this because [...] . [330] Erm my initial talk is on the actual breakdown of the costing for this exercise. [331] Erm I've broken down the costing into each of the sizes we will produce, the thirty three millilitres, the one litre and the two litre sizes. [332] I've also broken the smaller ones down into the cost for the still and the carbonated water. [333] Erm ... the actual percentage of the ingredients used over the first year erm is about five percent for water, twenty three point six percent for the bottle, I'll explain that later that's quite high, the cap is four percent, one percent for the gassing, ... erm one percent for the case, two point seven percent for labour, four percent for transport, a general overhead would be about seventeen point one percent. [334] Erm ... we've made a provision for interest ... payable on the loan ... on the assumption that we may have to borrow money on an overdraft basis. [335] And we've made er that's erm accounts for about one point six percent of the total cost. [336] For the advertising which is the biggest erm ... amount we have to spend on is actually forty percent. [337] The advertising's actually larger than other products are currently spent on their advertising but w we feel that with the launch of a new product and trying to catch eight and a half percent of the mar market over erm three years that we do need to spend heavily in the department so like I say that's forty percent. [338] But that's only in the first year, in the second year erm the percentage will reduce quite rapidly and [...] we're only spending half [...] the second and third years. [339] Erm back to the bottles. [340] Now we had quite a problem trying to obtain erm a bottle size the two litre size at a reasonable price when we set out on this er thing. [341] So it's costing us approximately twenty pence for each bottle and that's very high, that's a very high quality bottle. [342] We've just been in discussions with the manufacturers and we actually but we're hoping to get a discount on that in the near future so we're hoping the cost of that will come down. [343] The contribution erm made by each of these products after we've used an average sales price erm is seven and a half pence ... roughly for the smallest size, erm about eighteen pence average for the one litre size and eleven twelve percent twelve pence sorry for the large size. [344] Erm the large size is really a relatively it it's a smaller percentage of the market so we've had to price it as far down as we can that's why our contribution for the large size is not as large as the ... [...] Erm the overhead the sorry the capital costs erm will be a total of two hundred and ninety thousand which is two hundred for factory extensions, eighty thousand for plant and ten perc ten thousand for the gasser. [345] ... Erm the pricing of the product. [346] We priced it at a wholesaler price, a retailer price and a con the price of a consumer. [347] Erm ... the small bottles will be b er be between thirty two and thirty five pence to the consumer. [348] The market average is about thirty one pence but we feel that we can cos we're proc producing such a high quality product that we can raise the price above that. [349] For the one litre size the average price is about sixty seven pence. [350] Whereas the market size is it it varies considerably. [351] We've found that own brands are from thirty five pence up to the top quality brands are something like eighty five pence and we feel we've hit the market in the middle there. [352] So we're quite happy with that price. [353] Erm the two litre size now like I say once again we're having erm problems with getting erm an economical ... er cost for the bottle of this so our price is actually slightly higher than the other market price. [354] Once again the market price erm for this size is from fifty three pence for own brand sizes up to about eighty pence for up sorry eighty two pence for erm the top quality products. [355] Unfortunately we're gonna have to market ours at about eighty two pence, but we feel this is quite reasonable considering that the vast the biggest sales of this two litre size would be from the milk floats and would delivered to the door. [356] So we feel that's quite reasonable. [357] ... And the market the market size really for in year one is two and a half percent which is fourteen and a half million litres of water. [358] Year two is six percent which is thirty four point eight million litres of water. [359] Year three eight and a half percent of the market which is forty nine point three million litres of w water. [360] Erm we feel quite confident that we can reach these targets. [361] ... Erm and that's the product analysis erm from my part of the the team. [362] Thank you. |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[363] Thank you Anne for that very detailed and realistic view of the potential available to the company er I'd now like to call on Tom again er to give us a highlighted familiarization of the advertising and promotional campaign Water intend to pursue ... |
| Thomas (PS1U9) |
[364] [...] Right our adverti advertising and commercial campaign. [365] Er to reach our target objectives we ha we need a very strong sell to the trade. [366] ... Including a large and sustained advertising campaign. [367] Now initially ... er starting er starting May er [...] for suppliers to be [...] the adverts for from the beginning of the summer holidays and then looking forward to the Christmas trade. [368] Right well first of all the first thing we can probably do is broadsheet to the trade introducing product and incentives. [369] ... And it would be something along these lines. [370] ... This is the the front of the broadsheet which would go to the trade. [371] ... And followed by er the message inside. [372] Okay which says, er intr introducing our new product range of spring water available from May the first ready for the summer trade. [373] And then it goes into the details of erm the various sizes which we have. [374] In three hundred and thirty C C bottles, er the still will be in gold top and the sparkling in silver. [375] And as for your customer a mark of quality mixer. [376] In Tetrapak for the machine vendors and those with who prefer this in er this environment friendly pack er package. [377] In litre bottles to cater for everyday use in the house, the restaurant, the pub, the club. [378] In two litre bottles for the heavier users of fresh spring water. [379] Trade incentives, one case free for every ten purchased in the in introductory period ... which we've foreseen as four weeks. [380] [...] And fifty pence per case rebate for orders during er introductory period as well. [381] We shall be delighted to receive your order by telephone or when our representative visits you. [382] There will be heavy T V, post and press advertising commencing in June. [383] There will also be the opportunity for your customers to save bottle tops for or pu or purchase heavily discounted quality goods. [384] ... Okay. [385] ... We at the at the initia erm the initial opening as well we've we would er er offer an invitation to the press and the media to attend our launch meeting er from from this we would hopefully get some advertising in as much as apply to [...] erm and er ... hope t to get X amount of the market. [386] That generally works. [387] ... We shall have a four work sell-in to the trade via representatives ... er they will have funds available to purchase shelf facings in supermarkets, cash and carries if necessary. [388] We re we require a hundred percent distribution in all of our direct customers by the end of week four. [389] ... All major outlets to be visited by week one. [390] Major outlets being cash and carries, erm supermarkets, wholesalers etcetera. [391] In the medium term advertising in trade magazines to cater for information of the launch getting to the indirect trade. [392] That's the people that we don't call on ... erm with our representatives. [393] ... We would we would like to build distribution in the in in this market [...] with the use of specialized agency teams. [394] Er we're we're aware of the costs and the effort er and that effort may have to er be delayed. [395] Erm in the long term ... that is er six weeks onwards er we would go into T V, press, posters and sampling in the store. [396] ... Right. [397] ... Er advertising as I said T V, poster sites and press ... and point of sale. [398] And we will see ... er our advertising al in all the media media ... er going along these lines. [399] So that would be for example poster sites ... and that for example would be er point of sale. [400] A show-card if you like. [401] And if you notice what we're trying to do is with our er illustration here er is to reflect the the gentility if you like of the Yorkshire hills and Yorkshire dales and we have a logo of our own which appears in the corner of the screen. [402] ... And can I also add that that follows on with the pictures if you like on the bottl on the label in the bottle. [403] We're also considering and will do our leaflet drops erm giving money money off value er [...] value perceived er gifts. [404] And what I mean by that is for example er a pan like that we can buy for a quid which happens to be a [...] . [405] Er with a perceived value of something like ten or twelve pounds but er ... that can be self financing with the profit on the bottles that the bottle tops that we ask for. [406] For example if we make say for example five pence on the bottle and we or for cap ... er one of these for twenty bottle tops, that's a quid which is paid for. [407] So that's [...] self financing. [408] ... Erm in store we're thinking in terms of purchased shelf facings. [409] If they if the er store is not gonna us enough enough facings then we will be prepared to purchase them. [410] ... Just a note for you. [411] Er T V costs are thirty seconds of on all channels costs approximately two hundred and ten thousand pounds. [412] To make the film would cost you something like a hundred and twenty thousand pounds. [413] Er if you want to go local erm ... say on towns it would cost you perhaps forty three thousand pounds for thirty seconds. [414] However spots can be purchased for seven seconds and a pro pro rata charge is made. [415] ... Er full page newspaper in nationa national dailies is averaging about erm twenty thousand. [416] Although the telegraph costs twenty seven thousand pounds for a full page and [...] twenty thousand. [417] ... As I said er trade incentive incentives fifty pence per [...] for every ten purchased introductory or er order only. [418] ... Erm advertising ex expenditure will be heavy and varied and will change as our three year er plan evolves. [419] Our needs of the cam campaign are perceived. [420] We er we intend to break into profit in year three when we should have recuperated our expenditure. [421] ... Right the ima the image we're seeing [...] is freshness, cleanliness and health. [422] Erm ... have agreed that we can take over two of their sponsored events er which is golf and tennis and it would be something like erm ... golf promotion. [423] Now you might ... that will get us on T V and it it is also self financing as well in as much as you set up the promotion, the T V companies but it off you. [424] So it doesn't cost you anything in [...] . [425] ... And both these events are in keeping with the image we're seeking and as I said self financing. [426] Pe the fees are paid by the T V companies to cover this event. [427] ... Our advertising budget ... two and a half percent of the market the first year. [428] We're gonna make a loss of one one million one hundred and seventy seven thousand with an advertising spend of two and a half million. [429] Erm the second year six percent. [430] We will in actual fact make a profit in the second year ... erm although that's gonna be against the fi first year loss. [431] [...] ... And the third year eight perc eight and a half percent of the market we should in fact [...] of two million two er thirty hundred and thirty four erm thousand pounds. [432] ... Er note we're flexible in our advertising budgets against [...] make a profit in year three. [433] Erm I personally feel although some members of me team don't agree er with the with the heavy a advertising expenditure we've got, we can probably do better than two and a half the first year certainly erm and maybe ten percent of the market in the end of the at the end of the day. [434] ... Right. [435] ... Advertising where it goes. [436] ... These are preliminary [...] er first year er two by thirty second spots half a million quid but that's national. [437] Erm a thousand poster sites at say five hundred pounds per site ... would cost half a million. [438] And national dailies five dailies [...] would cost you about four hundred thousand pounds. [439] [...] leaves about one point million pounds one point one million pounds to cover intr introductory incentive leaflets, buying shelf space, added value goods, money off incentives, point of purchase. [440] But the budget will be continually scrutinized er and adjusted to er suit the situation that we're in at that stage. ... |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[441] Er thanks Tom that was really quite dynamic and breathtaking and I think you'll all agree. [442] Er now some more practical and down to earth aspects ... er Michael director of development will run through the critical path analysis for the new factory extension. [443] Ah yes I thought that would er take you by surprise I noticed the sharp intakes of breath there erm but even now we're thinking in terms of expansion. |
| (FUGPS000) |
[444] Thank you very much Philip. [445] ... My brief ... was to do a C P A for the factory extension. [446] Erm and also decide the dependence, draw up the network, decide the critical path and decide what action could be taken to reduce the overall project by three days. [447] ... On the C P A ... on the C P A of the factory extension [cough] what we've done ... we have ordered the digger ... which is taking a duration of seven days. [448] So the digger will arrive on site [...] . [449] ... We will continue to from two three we will continue to dig the foundations in the mean time we hope the concrete the concrete will be arriving on site to complete those footings. [450] At the same time it is my belief that while we were do doing the footings we can also [...] the concrete to fall in line where we will erm put the main floor in. [451] Erm during the course of the footings and flooring taking place, bricks have been ordered to come in where the walls are being built together with the joinery. [452] You'll see a dotted line coming off on er ordering the bricks it comes in here er to er the roof structure. [453] Now at the same time as ordering the bricks I'm taking on myself to order the tiles for the roof at the same time. |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[454] Thank you Michael for that exciting view of the forthcoming plans for the expansion to cope with this new vibrant market. [455] Erm ... now it's my spot er and it's a quality promise. [456] We at Water undertake to supply each and every cherished customer with a product that is clear, cool and healthy to drink, free from contaminants and eminently potable. [457] It will be maintained within the requirements of W S D eighty oblique seven seven eight and all new MAFF directives. [458] MAFF being spelt M A double F capitals. [459] Erm ... er by continuous process control so that we can say this is water. [460] Erm now for the moment we've all been waiting for ... er what this means in terms of er profit loss and cash flow and Anne will once again enlighten us ... |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[461] I do realize [...] out of time this so erm I'd like to just g erm go through the profit loss for one year quite quickly. [462] Erm as you can see the sales in the first two are expected to be four point nine almost five million pounds. [463] Erm the cost of sales is two and a half million pounds which gives us a gross profit of almost two and a half million pounds. [464] You'll notice on the overhead cost the big cost is the advertising which is two and a half million pounds and that unfortunately takes us into a a net loss at the end of the year of one point almost two million pounds. [465] ... Erm I've now set out the budget details for the three years. [466] Erm ... I've also erm put down the side of year one the actual percent of the cost for each of them. [467] As you can see once again the advertising is a problem in year one which takes up forty percent of our actual cost of the total product. [468] In year two this actually drops down to twelve point six percent and in year three down to nine five percent. [469] Erm ... year one once again we said we'll make a loss of one point almost two million. [470] In year two we're expecting to make a profit of one point five million. [471] You'll also notice that we put a provision in there of half a million for expansion of packing cos we believe that we may need this ... erm with the production of the o you for ... the carry on. |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[472] Thanks Anne that sounds wonderful. [473] Erm so it's okay Mike to you to summarize er all of this for us. |
| (FUGPS000) |
[474] Fine okay thanks Philip. [475] Well erm ... in complete summary I'd just like to go through three points again. [476] A the product. [477] The product is a very pure natural water from an underground spring with with a clean taste, high in calcium and low in nitrates. [478] It has undergone two stringent two years of stringent tests and is produced in two forms a carbonated and a still version. [479] The competitive edge. [480] Water is committed to the development of effective competition and has been instrumental in many changes. [481] Competition in the British market for water today is a reality with some forty plus rivals complet competing for a share in this growth area. [482] We believe that the quality of our product together with doorstep deliveries, our unique selling proposition is highly valued by our customers. [483] These arrangements are part of a wide ranging package of service s standards drawn up under the campaign banner of a commitment to customers. [484] Which marks the latest development in the company's long standing programme of customer care. [485] We further believe that in carrying out these arrangements we enhance the company's reputation, its quality of product, flexibility and responsibility within the market place, together with its personal service and image. [486] Future development. [487] The company has always had a substantial research and development program and it will continue to develop s its businesses within the U K and take advantage of any appropriate profitable opportunities to extend operations. [488] Expansion by way of export to the E E C is envisaged within the next twelve months. [489] Market research has shown us that people are far more health conscious and far more sensible about what they drink. [490] If you don't want an alcoholic drink, mineral water is an acceptable alternative. [491] Young people especially just take it for granted and order it automatically. [492] So move over Perrier you've got a new Yorkshire rival. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [applause] |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[493] At that point I just want to stand up again because I think I've put very little into this [...] altogether because I wasn't here. [494] I'd just like to thank the fellow colleagues of my team for the effort and I regard er a very worthwhile and creditable performance. [495] Thank you one and all. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[496] Right okay now who's got some questions? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[497] Ah right well who wants to fire first then? [498] Go on Mike you had your hand up first didn't you. |
| Mike (PS1U5) |
[499] Right erm the thing that disturbs me actually is this advertising budget so could you ... can you tell us erm what the timing of this advertising is in terms of Yeah can you turn that over please. [tape ends] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[500] Range er of information that you're gonna put out to that person ... so that he can bring in o other customers to your arms. [501] I mean you know a lot of people don't have the orange juices and the eggs and everything else that do cos they [...] milk delivered day. [502] How are they going to be able to join [...] your network of [...] doorstep deliveries. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[503] Well I mean the most of them will obviously go to the cash and er to the er supermarkets and pick it up. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[504] But they're going to be cut out from the two litre bottle range er if they've got a bad back or [...] these sort of situations. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[505] Oh yeah right well I mean we could leave that to our representatives if you like erm ... to erm to cater for those those milkmen erm ... in the same way as the milkmen. [506] You know we'll always be and continually be looking for a er fresh outlets erm to sell our product. [507] That's a great ... benefit of doing it sort of erm nationally. |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[508] The intention was that we should set out to count the big sales first. [509] We want the turnover we want the the input and and then er having succeeded hopefully by year three when we've er as we've maintained making a profit we will then look at some of the marginal sales as we would call them to er some of the smaller people. [510] That obviously entails er a a great deal more overhead in terms of distribution. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[511] Most of the market seems concentrated in the er initially in the two litre area for er [...] to the centre of our sales would be in in that area. [512] And er over a period [...] diversify into er different markets. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[513] Do you not see any problems with the clergy using the name ? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[514] Oh we we've already spoken to the Archbishop [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[515] Do you have to pay any fee for using the name? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[516] Yes we've er spoken to the council as well and we've er received all the authorities which are necessary from the York council and er everybody is happy on that. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[517] Ah we we we know somebody up there. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[518] When you [...] the title you're talking about Pennine water [...] a link between the two. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[519] Yes well the reason for that was the erm ... the name is to do with the way we commercially market the product. [520] Er we're targeting three particular areas. [521] We're targeting the area around London, the area in Yorkshire obviously and in Scotland because the er socio ec and economic roots provide er the right kind of market for our product. [522] And er is a very well known er place indeed and we feel that people throughout the country indeed throughout the world can identify with . [523] And it will also aid the tourist industry in York by providing people with a focus to using the material we have here they can identify with it and ... it may increase the er the trade ... er in York. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[524] You say that you know your main one of your main targets is the London area. [525] Do you see any problems trying to push a Yorkshire product in the London area? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[526] Well there are a lot of people from York shire in London. [527] And the marketing [...] shown that people who buy this product are mainly the young women in socio and ec economic groups A and B and er a lot of er women like to be like Yorkshire women [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[528] That that that that kind of |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[529] [...] also like to point out that Highland Spring is is erm a national product. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[530] The highland springs are seen as natural but to me the Pennines ... [...] a rather grimy image. [531] They've not got a fresh spring image. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[532] Oh well that's you [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[533] Er in addition to which er the the the problems that Perrier had erm er I've forgotten exactly how long it is ago now but probably er two or three years ago er when they had er contamination through |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[534] Have you got a slogan at all? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[535] Pardon? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[536] Have you got a slogan? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[537] We don't particularly need one I don't think. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[538] Spring water from the Pennines that's a good |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[539] [...] the T V adverts thirty seconds is a long time |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[540] Yeah right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[541] Ah yeah but I think you er misunderstood what we were saying. [542] Thirty seconds is to produce a film that's a long time [...] we did talk about seven second slots as well |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[543] Yes. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[544] which we can flash on . |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[545] So you'll be using |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[546] Oh yeah I mean we're only talking about a couple of [...] initially er large erm [...] thirty second spots if you like. [547] They're too expensive you know for the sort of profit we're going to to go into too much of that. [...] |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[548] The the intention of the film is to sort of er create er the the the backdrop to this product. [549] In other words er pictures of er springs emerging from er Pennine moorland er backdrops etcetera etcetera they're just to give you the backdrop. [550] To which Tom says the the essential punch will come from the er seven second advert. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[551] Mm. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[552] Bearing in mind that there's something like forty companies chasing about eighteen percent of this market, do you honestly feel that your advertising revenue is going to go down as quickly as feel if you want to try and keep ahead of the the pack and keep up with the leaders. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[553] Well [...] the there are only really three main competitors so [...] are are people in in the market . |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[554] And er we intend to er capitalize er on our [...] and indeed er makers of Highland Spring Water their market share is reducing and we intend to capture that portion. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[555] [...] aren't they. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[556] We did also point out er [...] the advertising budget would be reviewed [...] . |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[557] [...] er if we go in front of the ... of our objectives then we're on there's obviously more money to spend. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[558] [...] is quite high bearing in mind the fact [...] the national average ... . |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[559] How are you doing, are you [...] ... |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[560] You're gonna you're saying you've got a problem with the cost of the bottles ... these are the blue ones? |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[561] no these are the large ones. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[562] The large ones [...] [...] |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[563] The two litre size because of course the two litre is not well it it's erm we just had problems with erm finding somebody who would give us a er [...] good quality bottle. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[564] The the small bottles are glass though. [565] Are they reusable or recyclable. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[566] Well actually most people have [...] most people want them for souvenirs. [567] Cos that's where that one came from. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[568] say sort of environmentally friendly and [...] |
| Philip (PS1U7) |
[569] Yes we we envisaged that that bottle it it it has a certain sort of ... cache about it so we we we expected that that er a lot of sales for that eventually would go through the on trade and er obviously if it's on trade then er [...] the thing is automatically re-collectable and recyclable. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[570] Well there is a problem with recycling blue glass because of the colour. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[571] Well not recycling [...] bringing it back into the thing, washing it and and refilling. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[572] It may not help the advertising [...] use blue but green. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[573] Well there actually is a s spring water bottle [...] actually producing already so |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[574] We actually think that that blue bottle will stand out when there's no other |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[575] As long as it's not next to to er Domestos [...] |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [laugh] [...] ... |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[576] Can I just ask a couple of questions before we finalize before lunch. [577] First of all can I talk about the erm how you're going to execute your advertising campaign. [578] Because you're talking about a national launch er with a national campaign er developing one image. [579] Er with one T V commercial and yet you've said that your initial thrust will be erm in three areas. [580] First of all London, second Yorkshire and third Scotland. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) | [...] |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[581] How you attack those markets can be different in the sense that in er London the penetration of erm er mineral water into the target market is very high and therefore it's already an accepted practice. [582] Whereas in Yorkshire the penetration and usage is very low perhaps the lowest in the country erm where there is still very much a heritage of, Well what's wrong with what's in t' tap lad? [583] Erm and so the approach has to be quite different. [584] And Scotland where there is a very strong national heritage and how are you going to push Yorkshire water into an area where there is a high heritage of water? [585] Can you do that with one advertising campaign or do you plan [...] ? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[586] Well initially we we're we're going to we're going to go nationally but very quickly we're gonna see where erm our strengths and weaknesses are erm and we know already where the erm the large market is and once ... we've had a couple of T V spots to make it known nationally erm in the end of course we're gonna have to erm probably concentrate on those areas which erm er which'll give us the best return. [587] [...] not only which er erm one of the big strategies of ours is using er and we think we can get into a considerable number of homes with leaflet drops etcetera erm er by using ... that er arrow. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[588] Okay. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[589] Well one one of our key key er marketing er tools is the markets we're actually aiming for and I er agree with you [...] we are going to diversify and it is an on ongoing campaign but er our s the er targeting's based on the socioeconomic group er of the population and the differential er of purchasers is going to be fairly minimal because those will be very similar people throughout the entire country. [590] Erm so I take I understand your point we are aware of it and we think our campaign will take take er those factors into account. [591] And diversification will er occur somewhere [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[592] Okay. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[593] I think we all talked about flexibility and you know that's ... what it's all about really ... . |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[594] What consumer research have you done to er enable you to charge a premium price for your water? [595] Is it of a higher quality and accepted by consumers? ... |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[596] Well the er water quality is e exceedingly high and |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[597] Technically you said that already but what about er sort of consumer appreciation? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[598] Well the er consumer appreciation [...] outlined er again that's divided into two areas and it's based on the socioeconomic groups and the purchasing patterns of the members of the public. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[599] Right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[600] And er there are two distinct markets. [601] One for bottled water and er the the the the large |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[602] No I'm not I'm not interested in the socio groups what I'm saying is what research have you done to confirm that the |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[603] Well we have done research |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[604] actual taste of the water is right for your target market. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[605] Well we have done research by sampling tests inside |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[606] Right. |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[607] er supermarkets etcetera er from time to time. [608] Erm and those people who have been asked the specific question, Would you pay a premium price for this water as against that which you're drinking? said yes. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[609] Fine thank you. [610] And the last question I want to raise with you is that erm how do you feel about your initial problem on pricing? [611] You're talking about er three thirty mil going out at a premium price, erm your one litre at an economy price and your two litre back at a premium price. [612] Do you think that variation in pricing strategy will be er contrary to what you're trying to do in terms of your image projection for the brand? |
| Unknown speaker (FUGPSUNK) |
[613] It could be. [614] It could be. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[615] Right how do you er plan to address that issue? |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[616] In effect although although the water is the same product it's there is a slight difference in the marketing of each one of them. |
| Gordon (PS1U3) |
[617] Right. |
| Jane (PS1UA) |
[618] The small bottle once again is is the attractiveness of the bottle and we've found that to be very attractive and people are were very willing to pay a premium price for something like that cos as Thomas said people are buying those bottles to keep them erm initially. [619] So we feel that we can actually get away with a premium price on that. [620] The biggest market is the one litre size. [621] That's a vast erm ... that takes up a vast erm proportion of the market. [622] It's also the highest proportion of our oi erm production for these reasons and of course it has the greatest return pocket in that. [623] So we really need to keep that into a price competitive with other erm er competitors. [624] Erm the two litre size is we i the vast majority of the market there is going to be on the doorstep and we feel that we could get away with a premium price because of that. [625] But I understand your concerns that it may affect the erm [...] . [tape ends] |