| PS3KJ | X | f | (Dawn, age unknown, trainer) unspecified |
| PS3KK | X | m | (No name, age unknown, trainer) unspecified |
| PS3KL | X | f | (Elaine, age unknown, insurance company employee) unspecified |
| PS3KM | X | m | (John, age unknown, insurance company employee) unspecified |
| HYUPSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| HYUPSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[1] The first session we're gonna look at is called Training and [...] . [2] It's just literally about a twenty minute session. [3] The purpose of the session really is to give this training course an overview and also to, to sort of have a [...] for training. [4] What we want to do in this session as I said it will only take about twenty minutes, there are three key things we want to do. [5] One, we're going to look at why well trained staff are, are so important to the C U, secondly we're going to look at things responsibility training is and lastly we want to look at a systematic approach that you can take as training. [6] Those are the three things we're gonna cover in about twenty minutes. [7] Well the first thing that we want to think about is ... why well trained staff are so important to the company ... and [...] do this [...] very much a participated session, ignore the tape, I am, I've forgotten about it already! [8] So why are well trained staff so important to the company? [9] ... You can just shout out any ideas you have so why do we need well trained people? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[10] Productivity. |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[11] Productivity. [12] ... Yep? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[13] Cost efficiency. ... |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[14] Much more cost effective isn't it if things to be done once rather than have to do reading them two or three times and generally the reason that things are repeated a number of times is that perhaps people are not really quite sure or not that that are [...] systems, yet productivity the better trained people are people who can do things, get it right the first time and they can do more work can't they than somebody else you are not having to pick it up as the manager responsible and put mistakes right. [15] So productivity and cost efficiency. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[16] It gives a good impression [...] ... |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[17] Yeah, like so many industries we're competing on good service aren't we and if we do things right it does convey a very professional image of C U to, to, to the company, to the, not to the company, to the, to the market place. [18] I mean you were gonna say something. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[19] Any more? [20] So we've got |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[21] Er yeah ... that's a good one isn't it? [22] Just as if , if we are in a sort, team leader or a section head as I've shown, it doesn't mean to say that we hold all the knowledge, we can pass it on to others, who can he pass it on to somebody else ... although you ultimately may be responsible for the training of other people, you don't need to do it all yourself do you, but unless you pass on skills, you're gonna make a sort of a quite a vicious circle for yourself aren't ya? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[23] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] ... |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[24] And how does training do that? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] ... |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[25] We all like to get things right don't we? [26] We all like to think we can do things and we can do things well. [27] It actually helps our morale doesn't it and it sort of helps our confidence. [28] ... I don't know about you, but if I had to sort of pass something on to somebody else to check, if I can see somebody scribbling on it, I, I, I, I feel quite edgy, I hate it, I like to feel that I can do it and I can do it well and that other people don't need to have to amend it. [29] There have been a lot of studies done with regard to morale and job satisfaction and it has been shown that, that if people are well trained, they feel a lot more loyalty towards the company cos they feel that somebody's actually taking responsibility for their training and development. [30] ... How does that help us in the outside world if people know that we ... we give good training? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] ... |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[31] Yeah we attract a better class of candidate don't we? [32] People hear within the market place that, that we give good training, that we do develop people and it does attract good people to join us doesn't it, whereas very few people want to join a company where you go nowhere, where you're not given any training you stay in the same job for ten years and it does nothing for you. [33] Most of us like to feel that we can join in and we can progress if we want to. [34] ... Any others? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[35] If any decided [...] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[36] Yeah. [37] ... Yeah. [38] ... We need to sort of plan we need to grow people, develop people. [39] Otherwise if we don't invest money and time in training, we're forced to have to go outside to sort of buy in people, because we haven't actually invested in them. [40] ... [...] . Any more? [41] ... [...] I think those are the ... those are the key things that we want to put across really. [42] I think the other thing is is about erm [cough] ... flexible as well, we've got a flexible workforce. [43] If people are well trained, you've got lots of people in turn you know when you've got absenteeism or holidays, you've got lots of people who could be slotted to different positions for you and obviously the better trained people are, it does help with the [...] talent, it makes you more flexible and you've got more people who can possibly go for certain jobs. [44] ... Awful lot of reasons why training i is so important to us an and basically it simply all comes back to our [...] statement isn't it,it it's to be a sort of feeding insurer to give unsurpassed service. [45] I mean th there's no way we could do that unless we've got well trained staff. [46] ... We can't compete on the basis, we can't project the profession [...] if people aren't well trained and people are making [...] slow and the only way we can overcome that is by taking the time to train people. [47] And on a more le local level you're quite right ... the better trained people there are, the more they, the happier they feel ... the more [...] work they have, the more job satisfaction they have. [48] There is a direct correlation between morale, motivation, job satisfaction and absenteeism and staff turnover, if people are happy they generally want to stay for us they're much more loyal and work harder and ... when we're managing an area it becomes a lot easier because we are not having to, people are well trained they do the things right first time, you're not having to correct their mistakes. [49] So training is ... is essential really, it's fundamental. [50] In fact we'll move on quickly now to have a look at, we've looked at why it's so important. [51] If we spend one or two minutes just thinking about whose responsibility is training? [52] Who do you see as the sort of holding responsibility for training? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[53] Whoever's got some knowledge to pass on. |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[54] Yeah, who has ever got knowledge to pass on. [55] ... Cos if you were asked as, as, as a person by, by a manager or by somebody else to, to actually do the training, then it's your responsibility isn't it you've been asked, you've been given that task and it's your responsibility to ensure that people are able to do at the end of the session something effectively. [56] Who else do you see as holding responsibility for training? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[57] Training Officer. |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[58] Yeah. [59] Training Officer. [60] ... That's what they're ... they're employed to do at any particular site, but they don't hold total responsibility do they? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[61] Line Manager's job. |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[62] Yes, yeah. [63] ... Line Managers and Supervisors as well are, are responsible for training because as a Line Manager or a Supervisor you're responsible aren't you for training and developing people. [64] That is one of your accountabilities to develop others and training falls into that. [65] Now you may as a manager think well you don't have to do it all yourself, you can use senior people within your section who have the knowledge or you can use training officers or you can use people like ourselves at the training centre or the C B T or the I Vs or it could be that you bring the marketing department to help you out. [66] There are lots of resources available for you, but ultimately if you have a manager or a supervisor in your title, then you are responsible for the training development of others, or in a technical, Louise and Andy the B T As are responsible for the, the technical training, aren't they, of others within, within the section cos you have the knowledge. [67] Well what a lot of people say on the course is [...] I know it's my responsibility, but I always, I don't always have the time to train because there's a lot of backlog, there's a lot of pressure, it's ... and we all say to them that training [...] is like a catch twenty two situation. [68] [cough] If you don't make the time for training due to the work, pressures or deadlines or backlogs, and if you're not training others they make mistakes don't they? [69] If they're not properly trained it's not their fault, people can only do what they can do can't they? [70] If th they don't know ... if people are not properly trained they are making mistakes then it does make more work doesn't it? [71] Because the mistakes have to be rectified ... and it puts us under even more pressure because you've got even less time. [72] So training ... we do need to make the time otherwise it does become a catch twenty two situation. [73] ... But as you said if it is your responsibility you'll have to do it all yourself, there are lots of resources and lots of other people who can actually help you out who have the knowledge and you can use ... because you can use it as a development tool can't you for some of your members of the section to ... to give them some training expertise. [74] ... Right so we'll just look at the sort of er the negative side of not making the time that we get more mistakes. [75] We have to rectify more mistakes and [...] put more pressure on us. [76] What I'd like to introduce lastly now is an approach that you can take to training ... to help yourselves and to help make it more effective and more systematic and what I'd like to introduce to you is, is something called the training cycle and the rest of the course is actually based around the training cycle and I know Margaret you've actually seen the training cycle a few weeks ago, I'm not sure if, if any of the others are, any of the others familiar? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[77] Yes, I have. |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[78] You've seen it before. [79] Good. [80] ... Now for questions in the next session now. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[81] Can't remember it though [...] . [82] Great. [83] We've seen training, there have been four major steps for training and the first of which is actually to identify training needs. [84] So before we start doing anything at all we actually do some identification of trainees. [85] What do you think this actually involves? [86] ... Those that have seen it before. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[87] Oh right. |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[88] Or for those who haven't seen it before. [89] What do you think identifying training is all about? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[90] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[91] Yeah. [92] To find out? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[93] Yeah, yeah. [94] Yeah. [95] Identifying trainees is all about finding out who needs to be trained and what they need to know ... and if you remember one of ject objectives we had for the course is, was to, so that by the end of the course you will actually develop a system by identifying the trainees because ... this is [...] sort of hit or miss. [96] If they're gonna do training well, then we need some sort of system to find out who knows what ... and what people need to learn. [97] We need some sort of method for finding out what people need to know. [98] The second part once we know what people need to know ... we now need to think about putting together some training which actually satisfies that particular need. [99] So this next part is called design in training. [100] We're slipping into the training jargon here, but all it is is writing, just putting together some material which is, which is just what they need. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[101] If you haven't done this, if you haven't found out exactly what people need to know, the danger is that when you actually start to put together some material it's very hit or miss isn't it? [102] ... It could be that you're giving them some stuff that we already know or it could be that you're giving them some stuff which is far too advanced for them, they don't have the basics there. [103] ... Sometimes we know people very well, but it still helps doesn't it if somebody else comes in that there's some sort of system there that somebody else who takes over your section can find out exactly who's received what. [104] The last point then is delivering the training. [105] Once we've actually written the session we can then deliver it ... and the delivery is generally much more effective if we've put together material which suits their needs perfectly. [106] You feel more confident don't you in a group situation if you know exactly what people er er know or what they don't know, cos there's nothing worse isn't there than to go in and thinking they may already know this, I might be going in an [...] teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here, I'm not sure what they know about this. [107] You feel much more confident don't you if you know exactly what people need from you. [108] You go in feeling better and cos you feel better you'll deliver it in a much more effective way. [109] And the last part is something that a number of you had for your objectives is [...] and evaluation monitoring and evaluating training. [110] Once you've actually delivered it, you then need to find out well was it successful, did we achieve our objectives, did people learn, what we wanted them to learn. [111] ... This is the very important part of the training cycle and the cycle is incomplete [...] cos there's no good investing in time and training is there if we don't know whether we've been |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [cough] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[112] successful or not. [113] If we have, great, we find out what else they need to know. [114] If they haven't quite got it, then we may need to re-do parts of it. [115] But we think the training cycle is something that's continuous. [116] ... If people are new we need to train them to get the maximum competent level don't we? [117] If they've been with us for quite some time there are always ways we can enhance people's skills aren't there? [118] There are always ways that we could make people more effective or help people to ... got the wrong flip, but, but to grow into other jobs. [119] ... So that's the training cycle ... and we believe that if you follow that approach to training, then it will help you to be very effective and successful. [120] That's something that we definitely do here. [121] Right first of all [...] I said it was an overview and that's all it was. [122] What we wanted to look at to start with was why training is so important, whose responsibility training is and lastly a systematic approach to training. [123] What we're gonna do now, it's just coming up to twenty past three, so we'll take a tea break and then after tea we'll come back and we'll spend about an hour or so looking at identifying trainees. [124] ... We'll look at what you're currently doing and we also suggest to you something that you could be doing. [125] Any questions? [126] ... Quite happy? [127] Right, so we'll take tea then. [128] It's just coming up to twenty past three we'll take fifteen minutes. |
| (PS3KK) |
[129] That's a bit impressive Dawn, fifteen minutes |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[130] blimey. [131] We were only given ten on the first day. |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) |
[132] [...] unfortunately |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [cough] |
| Dawn (PS3KJ) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[133] Yeah and I need the diction I dunno why [...] . [134] Asking questions referring, do you get that situation whereby you're told something two or three times and yet they keep coming back? [135] Is it a training need, or could it just be the fact that if they pass it on to you, they know you're dead? [136] [laugh] Two aspects of that, but I think that's a good way of identifying training. [137] Yeah, we're on the training cycle again [...] another one. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[138] [...] contact with the outside world [...] customer services [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[139] So what would you, how would you identify from that? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[140] There's no margin [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[141] So we got two then on to errors and erm complaints. [142] Yeah? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[143] Yeah. |
| (PS3KK) |
[144] What you said? [145] Yeah. [146] It says, you know broadening it out a bit so we can be a bit more specific. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[147] Alright. [148] Changes in job specifications, personnel changes. [149] Reinforced ones |
| (PS3KK) |
[150] Alright ... changes in job spec ... |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[151] I [...] procedures were introduced. ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[152] Any others? ... |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[153] [...] backlog [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[154] Okay. [155] ... Yeah, erm |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[156] By examining people's body language [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[157] We're not going to that one now, cos I haven't examined your body language I'm not really interested. [158] Erm right, difficult one that it's like the body language after what? [...] looking at [...] do some work. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[159] Amazing [...] [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[160] Yes, thank you for that precise definition there. [161] ... What was that, sorry? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[162] Yeah you wanna see if they can do it or not you can tell if somebody, if you give somebody something to do [...] body language you can normally [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[163] Yeah [...] sit at their desk [...] . [164] Now the thing about positives, when [...] identify you know somebody might have training. [165] Now be positive about it. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[166] When they've been promoted to a high ranking job. |
| (PS3KK) |
[167] Right, promotion. [168] ... And if you've got somebody who's gonna be promoted or you think might be promoted in a couple years' time, or even yeah less than that, well what should you be doing? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[169] [...] you ever heard a succession plan is? [170] ... Er you probably don't do it ... erm ... you know er so brazenly probably the back of your mind but again key staff, you are key staff er yeah if you actually prepare somebody to take over your job when you're not there sort of thing. [171] So in a way it's a succession plan. [172] ... What other things might come out? [173] ... What do we do once a year? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[174] Review. |
| (PS3KK) |
[175] What? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[176] Review. |
| (PS3KK) |
[177] Review. [178] Anything else, appraisals, yeah things like that? [179] ... Anyone else [...] . [180] [...] comprehensive list. [181] New recruits ask them [...] what a good idea. [182] Charts of [...] asking questions, if people come to you and ask questions keep referring the same things [...] similar things to you all the time. [183] Perhaps it's cos they don't know the basics. [184] What sort of errors do they make? [185] Persistently make errors and the same [...] with it. [186] Complaints from other departments and complaints from members of the public, changes in job spec er new technology perhaps er ... [...] backlogs that, people always have a backlog don't they? [187] Is it cos they're lazy, often think it's cos they're lazy don't they? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[188] I think it's often because people are always [...] and then it always gets put to the bottom of the pile. |
| (PS3KK) |
[189] Things they're not so sure about [...] . [190] Perhaps might not be it, can't, you can't wave a magic wand and say everything's [...] but they might not. [191] Body language can suggest you have [...] like jumping out a window or hanging themselves or whatever. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[192] Promotion, succession planning. [193] We do enough succession planning in C U ... you know it's magic you know, you know number two like it's smashing number two it's still you know, you know young children, number two has a different connotation to what it does here, but definitely if you are a number two here, it means the same to what a child thinks it is, but I [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[194] er, and appraisals. [195] All ... all packets that we can use to identify ... I really do need people to talk to me. [196] Alright, so that's a brief out overview if you like of some of the errors that we can do. [197] Let's go a bit more specific ... Job analysis. [198] ... We do the first bit who needs to be trained ... what do they need to know is the second [...] ... |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[199] Yeah, so what they need to know and why ... forms a heading Job Analysis. [200] Where do you get your job analysis from? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[201] Personnel. |
| (PS3KK) |
[202] What? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[203] Personnel. |
| (PS3KK) |
[204] Personnel. [205] Okay, has anyone seen their job spec? [206] Does it actually give you any training [...] on it? [207] It's very broad isn't it [...] yeah. [208] Erm [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[209] Oh no it's the same sort of thing you're told it when you [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[210] You're told it aren't you? [211] It tends to be blocked up in somebody's mind what you do. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[212] Right, that's the other element, it's what you think they think you should be doing and it's amazing how few people, yeah that's the [...] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [cough] |
| (PS3KK) |
[213] I [...] talking about, but that's what job specs are all about. [214] It might seem long-winded, but dependent upon er if you get it right at the start with it, it might mean that one of the things we're suggesting er you might say no, it's not for me this, but you might think that job analysis is a good way of identifying training. [215] What they've gotta do and why they do it. [216] What's the starting point for job analysis do you think? [217] ... What's the first thing you've gotta identify? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[218] Yeah, the need for the job er ... er ... yeah, not, not quite exactly what I'm looking for, [...] the way of the trainer's dilemma isn't it? [219] I've got an answer for that it's not quite right, what shall I do? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[220] Can I just say no, shut up. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[221] Or should I and this is all part of it isn't it? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[222] Cos he won't say anything to me if I don't know what's wrong |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[223] erm won't say anything else will he? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[224] What [...] results [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[225] Yeah, alright. [226] Yeah okay, so we're looking for results. [227] The results of this person why are they employed. [228] So the results that we expect out the job. [229] ... If you get results it could earn a job analysis what would we do? [230] If I, if I was a job analysis person, what will I [...] sit next to you wouldn't I and what would I have missed out? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[231] Right, yeah. [232] Another word for main responsibilities. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[233] Mm, you're testing me today aren't you! [234] Right. [235] Key ... tasks ... What is the person's key task? [236] This is difficult stuff I'm not gonna spend a lot of time on this ... because it's covered on various other courses as well. [237] Things like appraisal skills er level one level two, various others, other courses that we run. [238] There's your job ... the first thing I should do is say well what are the key tasks, what are the areas that would mean results? [239] Perhaps a working demonstration might highlight something I'm trying to [...] . [240] Take the job of a receptionist. [241] Who's been a receptionist? [242] You have haven't you Elaine? |
| Elaine (PS3KL) |
[243] Yes |
| (PS3KK) |
[244] Right. [245] ... Let's list the tasks of a receptionist. [246] Shout now, go on,let let's go for it. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[247] Telephone, answering it ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[248] And [...] telephone, answer. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[249] That's what you think they do. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[250] Er, you're right, erm I can't think of the right word er |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[251] [...] Re-route. [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[252] Re-route, same thing as what you meant isn't it? [253] Diverts, if I wrote divert up here you might use it against me in later life. [254] Erm er route, let's just call it route er to ... correct ... [...] yeah? [255] Does that make sense, that's for the receptionist we don't expect her to fiddle with the rates for liability, capital or whatever do we? [256] Anything else a receptionist does? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[257] Okay? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[258] Okay, so it's erm ... meet ... public yeah? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[259] We need to [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[260] What? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[261] Amuse kids. |
| (PS3KK) |
[262] Amuse kids? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[263] Yeah [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[264] I can see why you gave the job up! [265] Right now |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[266] Any others, come on, you know just think about some things your receptionist would do. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[267] Cashiering, petty cash and [...] ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[268] Petty cash er accounts yeah? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[269] Post |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[270] It's normally the person that needs it the most actually isn't it, but what else? [271] Anything else you think the receptionist, you might have seen your receptionist do? [272] ... Well let's leave it at that, we gotta, we gotta we [...] . [273] What is a receptionist paid to do ... out of that list? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[274] Answer the phone [...] customers. ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[275] This one here? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[276] Yeah. |
| (PS3KK) |
[277] Yeah? [278] You've been actually quite specific there, meet the public, erm deal with [...] . [279] What are all the rest of these? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[280] Exactly. [281] Yeah. [282] See there's some difference if we go and say what is a receptionist's key task ... all the jobs that we do at work probably only two, three, four of them are actually what we're paid to do, cos they're the results we're measured on. [283] Yeah? [284] Yeah, if you try and think about it [...] processing. [285] There are lots of things we do to get that form to there, we're actually paid to move that form to there. [286] How we do it and the various other things we do aren't exactly what we're paid for but they become part of the job. [287] Say that they're not part of the job that the receptionist gets paid primarily with these. [288] ... So what are the key skill areas receptionists need? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[289] Telephone technique. |
| (PS3KK) |
[290] Telephone technique. [291] ... Yeah? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[292] Inter-personal skills. |
| (PS3KK) |
[293] Inter-personal skills. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[294] Organizational skills. |
| (PS3KK) |
[295] Organizational skills. [296] ... So how does that now by just analyzing if you had to train a receptionist which would you concentrate on? ... |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[297] Does it? [298] ... At various [...] branch to branch, you [...] messages. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[299] Yeah. |
| (PS3KK) |
[300] You do? [301] Yeah? [302] Great. [303] Yeah we learn as well. [304] But perhaps those three are the ones you'll, if it was a new person coming in to the job you'd concentrate on that wouldn't you? [305] ... In the training ... [...] without out. [306] You think about perhaps another example Host ... Host isn't a key task is it? [307] It becomes [...] . [308] Can you remember the tre [...] I nearly killed myself then, another thing you'll learn about training is er that all [...] should be put down and [...] around but ... if it, if we were to go [...] receptionist now you've got the idea of key tasks anyway. [309] The rest had to be done, but they're called enabling tasks [...] . [310] [...] Host training you first received can you remember it? [311] How good was it? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[312] It wasn't really. |
| (PS3KK) |
[313] Exactly, yeah I mean we got trained on Host down here. [314] Now who trained me on Host? [315] Have a guess? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[316] Mm virtually but the initial training was done by somebody else lasted eighteen minutes. [317] It was by the manager's secretary who is renowned for her typing speeds. [318] So what happened? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[319] You couldn't follow it? |
| (PS3KK) |
[320] I couldn't follow it. [321] Yeah, another element, but what did, what did I need to know about Host? [322] What are the three key things perhaps I need to know about Host if I never used it before? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[323] Have a [...] ? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[324] How to get out. |
| (PS3KK) |
[325] How to get out yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[326] How to review [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[327] How to review [...] . [328] Those are the only things I need to know to start with don't I? [329] What did I get in the talk in eighteen minutes? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[330] How to send a letter and review file, issue file, public file, the whole lot. [331] ... See what I'm saying is the key task if you break it down is what are the key elements is the first way of identifying a trainee. [332] ... So,we if we [...] our receptionist [cough] ... if we can say those are our key specifications, again it's a loose idea this is not easy sometimes to look into it, partly because we've been in our jobs for quite a while and you know we don't, we can clarify it, but think about your subordinates and [...] people that might be trained. [333] Identify those first, then you can actually write down what they're supposed to do. [334] ... If you can write that down what else can you then build on, what's the next step? [335] So you've done your key tasks, you then write down exactly what they are and then prioritize them, so you got [...] training need [...] not very good at answering the telephone what are ya gonna do? [336] Train them on it. [337] If they're no good at typing you gonna [...] . [338] ... To a lesser extent cos that's their key tasks. [339] A lot of people would say well you're typing, they do the typing first, this sort of thing. [340] So can you see how trainee needs analyses specific to them. [341] ... [cough] What would be the first stage then? [342] ... Competency ... you're looking at your receptionist now, because you've identified the key tasks ... you might say well what's the standard on these things, how good is she at passing on messages etcetera? [343] Bit of a difficult one to imagine a training exercise on passing on messages, but it could be couldn't it? [344] Some of the large switchboards and things like this. [345] ... So you look at the competency and most jobs ... have a ... a standard of performance don't they? [346] ... Most of us are measured on the some form of performance they do. [347] ... If you've got that standard you can then identify whether a person is below standard ... or ... |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[348] I can ask you easy questions now and again you know. [349] ... [...] Christmas or above it. [350] Are we worried about the above it? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[351] Could be that we wanna we could raise this even higher couldn't we? [352] Nothing wrong with people being above standard, in fact it's encouraged. [353] ... What about this is the more worrying one isn't it? [354] If you've actually got a standard for the key tasks, you can actually measure the ... what we call the performance gap ... and it becomes much more logical. [355] Again it's not always easy is it? [356] Some of the things are skill areas and it's not so easy to measure the skill area sometimes ... How are we doing so far? [357] We've lost ya, or yous you with us, be honest, cos I wanna move on? [358] Lost ya? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[359] No. |
| (PS3KK) |
[360] Oh, I said have I lost you and you were going |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[361] No, [...] with us and I [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[362] It's a way, it's a very formal way of identifying training needs ... but there are times when you need to do it. [363] You er you just sometimes cross the word poor performer, does that ever crop up? [364] ... No? [365] It might do, no not in our branch, well yeah, alright it doesn't crop up but we have other words for it. [366] [cough] It might be that before you start that if we [...] training you need to see what the performance gap actually is. [367] Because if somebody doesn't know what standard they're supposed to achieve ... how can they be training then ... it's like a piece of string isn't it, how long's a piece of string? [368] It's an idea, take it away, think about it. [369] ... One of the other things that leads off from a job analysis by finding out exactly what a person's supposed to do is that you can start doing things like a personal training log, cashiers, cash sell this is a word this is real life example [...] . [370] ... This is [...] word that's coming out now of what one department did by a new member of staff. [371] ... Can I ask [...] to share cos can you just share one for [...] signed copies. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[372] It's [...] an introduction cos this is given to a member of staff ... and he says the first [...] the question is can develop and train all staff. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[373] Well if it's not it should be [...] etcetera etcetera. [374] Let's move on to the pages ... I've got to the actual [...] format here. [375] ... It's got training need and it's got virtually everything down there that the new member of staff joining the company would need to know. [376] [...] given this basic ... [...] . [377] I mean something as basic as the family tree ... [...] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[378] Yeah. [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[379] Yeah? [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[380] Got a family? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[381] I've got a family tree [...] ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[382] How would, how useful is a family tree for someone? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[383] And it's also you know your first few days you sort of you, you become a leech don't you to the person that you know, you know the person sitting next to you. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[384] You know I mean it's really difficult you know they go to the toilet [whispering] they wanna have a crap you know [...] [] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[385] you know they might as well go to the toilet at the same time and all this sort of stuff and yet a little bit of information about that, how long does it take to put together? [whispering] [...] [] and various other things you know where's the staff manual kept [...] I mean when I joined, I didn't know [...] purchase and this sort of stuff. [386] [...] staff [...] you know all this sort of stuff. [387] Nice to know but they're very important [...] flick over a page ... Technology Host pack or Host training. [388] Think about people just joining the company, how long does it take to get up to speed on [...] ? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[389] Three weeks. |
| (PS3KK) |
[390] Three weeks [...] . [391] Depends on the job doesn't it, how much they're using, but if they're supposed to be using [...] regularly, surely one person [...] . [392] What do we do? [393] We get people [...] you say well I, you know somebody told me [...] a couple of months back how to use the diary system by you know putting the note in and then dating it ... when you want to remind yourself [...] been in the company ten years you know all this sort of stuff and it's just useful bits you know the whole [...] and all this sort of stuff. [394] There's so much that they could learn that would help them in their job. [395] ... Move over we on er Systems Training Technical. [396] Now we start getting into the actual nitty-gritties of the job and there's a whole list of things down here. [397] It says okay all this sort of stuff. [398] The important things though are things like who's gonna tutor them but it doesn't actually [...] does it and target dates, completion dates and [...] tests to be done. [399] ... How long would that take to put together? [400] ... Quite a long time. [401] Once it's in place though [...] benefit of it. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[402] If somebody new comes along ... there it is here's our training programme for this person [...] new person [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[403] Yeah, don't you feel as though you take some care of them. [404] I [...] joining the company [...] something like that ... and if they did when you do join a department that does it you have a great sense of belonging, because some of the things you'll do for the training will be allocated to other members round a team, yeah, all this sort of stuff and it becomes very easy, takes a monkey off your back as it were, you don't have to worry [...] . [405] It's just an idea. [406] Again, think about it could it be useful ... don't know, might be in the long term. [407] ... Another area that I have the plug. [408] This is an advert now coming up. [409] Have you ever seen these personal development plans? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[410] Yeah. |
| (PS3KK) |
[411] Yeah, alright okay. [412] Okay [cough] ... [...] front here. [413] Er the company through the Training Centre and the Personnel Department put together a personal development plan. [414] Think it's aimed at your group and also N Ts and people like that. [415] The idea is that [...] formalizing it much the same as you had, I'd just given and it's got induction er it's got A B C [...] erm there are personal details so that departments people picking up, see where they've gone, see where they've been and in things like skills, knowledge required, objectives start, finish dates how and with whom results comments. [416] It's just a training log that's linked up with the job spec, formalizes it a bit more. [417] What if something like this you know if I give this to Arthur and John and say er they just joined I give them this, this personal development plan, who should it put pressure on ... [...] should do, yeah cos you should be going up to them and saying well I'm supposed to have done you know X Y Y and they go ah yeah, and then they go up [whispering] with these excuses [...] yeah [] . [418] Again it's a thought, these are both group supply. [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[419] The contents relies entirely on [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[420] Yeah [...] depends [...] might go away [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[421] You have, have to check that through to your manager. [422] Er cos at the end of the day [...] if they don't like something [...] trainees analyses. [423] If you could quickly scan down and see what somebody's done and the levels of competency they've achieved, it helps you think that why aren't they doing the job, it might not be a trainee, it might be somebody else. [424] ... Another area ... now this, this is, this is one of my favourite things. [425] You have to shout Margaret, cos I know you've got a problem with [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[426] Cos I can't. [427] Have you ever seen these skills matrix before. [428] Again it's an idea we took from I think it's West End or various other departments. [429] We look at our team, it doesn't matter if you are section head or not section head or whatever you're just working the team, you have responsibility for training. [430] What you can do is list all the people down here and then you might have a skills matrix you might also have a ... product knowledge matrix yeah? [431] You know technology matrix, something like that and what you do you just simply say okay whatever the skills are along here it doesn't really matter. [432] Mr A is good at one, three, five and Mrs B is responsible for the [...] skills that she's good at one, two, three, four, five ... eight. [433] Mr C ... Mrs D ... what does that show ya at a glance? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[434] [...] . [435] What else does it show you? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[436] Who trained who. |
| (PS3KK) |
[437] Possibly [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[438] Yeah good stuff. [439] Anything else? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[440] Training requirements. |
| (PS3KK) |
[441] Training requirements. [442] If all these people are doing the same job ... officially in the real world we know that some people are more proficient than others that in some things or others, can you see how quickly go down that line ... and you say to yourself well Mr A you know he's got all those there ... great but there are a few gaps. [443] What happens when Mrs B goes on holiday or goes off sick? [444] ... Who copes, how many people can do task two? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[445] Only her, which means that when she's not there who must do the job? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[446] [...] yeah. [447] You see, you see how easy it is to build trainee analysis a very simple format. [448] Er I would suspect that very few branches and departments have used anything like this. [449] It's locked up away up here isn't it? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[450] [...] just in case. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[451] I never thought of it that way. [452] What do they got stars for in MacDonalds? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[453] Like, like cooking hamburgers properly or, or toasting a bun properly or personal hygiene I think that's the big standard one! |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[454] Yeah [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[455] Always make sure they got that. ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[456] Thanks for sharing that |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[457] I was just thinking I'm going to MacDonalds on Thursday so I'll look out for that. [458] Right okay so again it's just a simple idea that shows you an awful lot how long would it take to put that back together? [459] ... The actual matrix to design it, yet it comes back to [...] doesn't it? [460] What is the job spec, what are they expected to do, but that's a bit, take for example once it's in place, the chance of it changing regularly are quite minimal aren't they? [461] So, there's perhaps an idea for you is when you go back and you wanna get a bit of clout with your boss is to say well why don't we set up a er training matrix just to check where everyone's [...] . [462] Somebody said it was on the, was it you [...] you said you know somebody mentioned charts. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[463] Yeah, [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[464] Yeah, and you encouraged the staff to |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[465] Oh yeah, they all do it. |
| (PS3KK) |
[466] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[467] So can we just develop that one [...] says that in our own department they put it up on the wall so people complete it themselves. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[468] Well it doesn't go up on the wall it, it kind of goes around so it's not like public knowledge in there all the time. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[469] Oh. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[470] You send it round, what they want training on and it comes back to the manager [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[471] That's a good idea, cos a lot of training needs have come from |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[472] People being trained. |
| (PS3KK) |
[473] people who are trained. [474] Unfortunately that's one of the problems we have [...] is people are sent on courses. [475] Yeah, you're told you're going and we spend the first day overcoming barriers to the fact that they don't know why they're there, they've just been sent and it'll be good for you, you know this sort of stuff. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[476] Yeah? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[477] Yeah. [478] So you know I mean ... if you use it perhaps the way as [...] explained it then it's a much better way. [479] What else we got? [480] ... Okay ... now who what and why ... what other things might we need to think about identifying trainee needs? [481] Let's think about the trainee. [482] ... And when I say, use the word trainee I don't, it automatically makes a connotation doesn't it if somebody who's new to the job, new to the company. [483] It's not is it? [484] They're all trainees when you've been in the company ten years, twenty years you can still be a trainee learning something new. [485] So what things do we need to think about perhaps from the trainee's point of view? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[486] What level of training they need. |
| (PS3KK) |
[487] Okay so that's the level of training. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[488] Do they think they need the training? ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[489] Yeah? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[490] The type of training that would best suit them. |
| (PS3KK) |
[491] Oh [cough] ... we're on to tomorrow now. [492] Right ... I think one of the things we'll be looking at tomorrow is learning styles and people's preferred learning styles and what we'll find is that people in this room you'll all, you might have a slightly different way that you prefer to learn. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[493] I'm not giving too much away, and that might be quite important. [494] Anything else? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[495] Make sure that they get training [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[496] Yeah, er ... not too much ... in one go, yeah. [497] Bit like my Host training. [498] Bosh, I was frightened of the thing for months you know, you know there's always keys [...] and what happens if I press sent. [499] You know you got this, you got this fear that the whole company's gonna get this stupid memo. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[500] You do don't ya? [501] This is this natural thing inside me. [502] So not too much in one go. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[503] Like you said make sure they understand when they, why they are having the training. |
| (PS3KK) |
[504] Right. [505] ... Why? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[506] [...] quite embarrassed [...] being told [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[507] Or they think they don't need it. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[508] Yeah. [509] Two aspects [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[510] Yeah |
| (PS3KK) |
[511] What other things might we think about the trainee? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[512] [...] to to a certain extent [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[513] That's another element. [514] Perhaps [...] identify trainees but it might be something that thinks about when we're actually designing training yeah? [515] Okay, so we're doing well so far. [516] What about the more experienced member of staff who needs training? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[517] Who is actually doing the training? [518] Any of you, I mean cos we've got a very young group this week, myself excluded! [519] Erm ... it's certainly a nice [...] everyone on my side. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[520] Very quiet |
| (PS3KK) |
[521] What do the, what do the older people feel when you go out to train them? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[522] Do they like it? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[523] Why not? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[524] Yeah, who is this oink coming along here telling me how to do my job better. [525] Yeah? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[526] Right. [527] So again think about that aspect of it in identifying training needs. [528] What about the experienced person, what sort of training have they received in the past? [529] Does that help you? [530] One of the things we said the worst training session can be ... is going over stuff that I already have done, already known, what training have I received that they received in the past? [531] [...] ... Okay, we'll leave it at that for the moment. [532] What we've briefly done ... is look at how we identify who needs training. [533] Some are so obvious that new recruits but now don't forget the other [...] the asking bit. [534] What do people want to do? [535] A lot of us ignore the fact that people do have their own development and they want to do something a bit more exciting, but unless we're given the opportunity [...] ask will they want to demonstrate it? [536] Asking questions, referring, they keep doing that all these ideas here ... perhaps a good starting point is a job analysis. [537] [...] but what are their key tasks, what are the things they're actually paid to do? [538] From that we can then build up the job spec, you know the training needs like the, a little example we [...] and then we can look at competency. [539] How competent are people in their keys tasks, they're the ones we should vote on first off. [540] If they're performing below standard, we've got a gap ... performance gap, that needs training good identification of training, but identifying exactly where they are performing and how. [541] If they're performing above, what can we be selecting those people for? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[542] Promotion or |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[543] Yeah, very easy way, people learn from a peer group, much better ... sometimes. [544] Also thought about trainee, what sort of things do we need to think about in terms of the trainee? [545] There's one other area that's just sprung to me about the trainee and their actual ... ability. [546] Is it worth training somebody ... who has never, hasn't got the mental capacity to progress to another job or perhaps performing [...] ? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[547] [...] how do you know? |
| (PS3KK) |
[548] How do you know. [549] Well that's a picture you build up by doing things like appraisals, assessments, things like that using the other skills. [550] Just something to give you some food for thought is there are two types of ability ... know what they are? [551] ... I know. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[552] What? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[553] Yes. [554] ... but I don't know how to spell inherent, so I'm gonna write another word ... innate ability. [555] We've all got innate ability for something or other, you know what innate means? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[556] Nimble. |
| (PS3KK) |
[557] Nimble yeah, you know like some people are really good at figure work, yeah and that's brilliant at it, they've got a natural facet for maths and things like that. [558] ... Footballers, most professional footballers have innate ability don't they as well as professional footballers. [559] What would be the other one then, if that's what we've got inherently? [560] What would be the second one? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[561] What we learn. |
| (PS3KK) |
[562] What we learn. [563] ... Acquired, acquired ability. [564] ... Capacity to learn if you like. [565] ... Some people ... cannot learn very well can they? ... |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[566] No. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[567] [...] quite difficult to learn don't they? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[568] Yeah. |
| (PS3KK) |
[569] You know you can spend hours with them one-to-one, you go through everything, you go through it over and over again. [570] What do they do? [571] You can think of something now can't you? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[572] That smile on your face says it all. [573] No matter what you do they just cannot seem to learn. [574] They got you know, their mind is full up with what they've got, they've got no room for any improvement. [575] We have to accept that in life don't we? [576] We ourselves are the same ... it might [...] one subject area, we might have to get down to take on loads of different things. [577] In other areas we find it very difficult to learn. [578] I find it very difficult to be er to learn Morris Dancing! [579] Why do you think that is? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[580] Cos you can't dance? |
| (PS3KK) |
[581] I can't dance basically no. [582] I got no, I've got no innate ability and if you try to teach me, would it be any use? [...] [whispering] just a stupid example [] . [583] Other things to think about when you're identifying training ... alright ... a handout for you ... identifying training needs ... [...] at this stage just to make sure that ya the [...] are still out. [584] Get a bit of a [...] up. [585] ... [...] all this today. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[586] A little exercise for you to finish up with, not finish up this bit [...] . [587] Five minutes. [588] Individual exercise, doesn't have to be ... I'm sorry [...] I'm really how do you feel [...] left out? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[589] Left out, yeah. |
| (PS3KK) |
[590] Yeah, that's quite right see, thing to avoid for training don't leave anyone out. [591] Methods you are currently using for identifying training needs. [592] Methods [...] put to practice to ... enhance training. [593] Five minutes, before you start it though [...] now that it might not apply to you, you might not have control over training, and perhaps down the left hand side you put well what methods do they use [...] and you might put [...] the other side [...] then you go back and suggest to your boss will you [...] alright. [594] Five minutes on that one. [595] ... Right your five minutes is up. [596] ... Something crossed [...] very bad time [...] ... [...] looking at that brief picture, who wouldn't you invite to a group training session on ... skill six? [597] ... It just crossed my mind [...] another thing about this matrix here is you wouldn't bring a [...] those two people would you? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[598] Unless they like their training. [599] One of the big dangers of group training is that if the first one hasn't got the skills [...] skills is that he might not get anything out of it. [600] [...] that's like one-to-one training isn't it? [601] Is there anybody you know that, that also have got the knowledge but they find it difficult? [602] You might think you know [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [cough] |
| (PS3KK) |
[603] think back to a few years back when I was in training about a job and you might still think it now, but I couldn't give, put ideas over to somebody on one-to-one training. [604] ... You know I've been [...] I wouldn't bother showing them some that worked, I'll always pick the case that [...] had some hiccup on it, so the basic skill you were trying to show them never worked out, you know what I mean and it's [...] well don't worry about that, if it was a normal case |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[605] you know they sit there going what is a normal case, this is a normal case I've never seen anything else before. [606] You might think about not inviting Mr C and Mrs D. [607] ... You might think about skill level two. [608] Why might you invite Mrs B? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[609] [...] might have [...] Mrs B why we're doing a group [...] get the whole team. [610] Sometimes it's worth having a word before you announce training to Mrs B say look, your role in this will be ... support me and have you got any ideas etcetera that we can talk to. [611] Involve people on a positive side. [612] The other people that have been there a long time know it all and what they, what you say can you help me. [613] [...] put it together on a training session on this and they rely on you and perhaps talk through to the session and say look that when I say this sort of thing, will you be the person that demonstrates or gives me answer you know, this sort of thing. [614] Get them involved pro-actively as opposed to letting them sit there and snide at you cos they know more about it than you do. [615] It's a thought that crossed my mind [...] to help you as a trainer. [616] What we done in that brief session is giving you an overview of identifying training needs and you can go to, I have seen books written [...] identifying training needs and I have read books that thick ... and they [...] so many ideas there give you a starter. [617] Say if we don't get it right at the beginning what we get out at the end can be very successful. [618] I think the first stage process is to decide who needs training and what they need to know. [619] ... Er and it's about the methodical approach to training. [620] I've got a bit of time on a Friday afternoon for some training, I think I'll pick [...] Friday afternoon. [621] [...] I could have gone home [...] . [622] Whatever alright, so try and build [...] early start. [623] ... We move on ... If we identify our training needs and get them all specific it's gonna help us tremendously designing group training. [624] No two ways about it ... what we gonna do in this session is ... list the main stages to consider when designing training. [625] So really it's sort of the stages we look at, we're gonna design a training course or training session. [626] [...] steps that we look at. [627] ... [...] . ... And the way we're gonna test this session ... is when you ... give your training session on Wednesday. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[628] Laughing already. [629] It isn't broadcast to the rest of the manor by the way they got close circuit T V [...] . [630] Er that's how we're gonna test this out, alright, see how you put the structure together [...] . [631] We're gonna look at training objectives [cough] see that a bit more, a bit more lively though. [632] I mean look at training objectives. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[633] Mm. |
| (PS3KK) |
[634] Mm yes, a bit quiet on this side still, bit quiet on this one. [635] We're gonna look at how we actually set about writing the training session ... |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[636] Mm. |
| (PS3KK) |
[637] oh look at that little eyebrow raise [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[638] Now this is a good one, making the training session interesting. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[639] Oh, I think I'm gonna forget about the fourth one [...] preparing notes. [640] Some of it's pretty self-explanatory. [641] Dangerous thing to say we've already said, but preparing notes is lastly down to yourselves, I might give you a few tips on that [...] . [642] What I want to spend a few minutes on ... again this is something we'll test tomorrow, right so I'm giving you, training's all about doing what do you think? [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[643] What? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[644] Well yeah, er if I'm training you, so [...] prepared [...] it, but, what am I, what have I, what I have to do as a trainer make sure [...] saying? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[645] Eh? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[646] That'll take up to about half five erm ... what have I got to do to make sure you've understood what I'm saying? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[647] Question. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[648] Test. [649] [...] training presentation. [650] In the presentation you get people up front and they talk at ya don't they for a few minutes, try and keep it interesting etcetera etcetera. [651] With training what you're supposed to do all the time? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[652] Get feedback from your group to test out [...] . [653] This will build up obviously as we go through the course. [654] The first, the first one that we're really gonna test you on is gonna be testing is tomorrow morning. [655] So you're gonna have to do a little bit of work, just a tiny bit tonight on one area which is your training objective for your session tomorrow. [656] It's the only bit we want you to amend for tomorrow. [657] It's the only way we can test out what we said as having any affect. [658] So we're looking at designing training and the first thing we're gonna need to design a training is what? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[659] Subject. |
| (PS3KK) |
[660] Subject. [661] ... Great. [662] ... There's our subject ... I'm gonna train them all on ... what did I hear someone say? [663] Preferred age ... No? [664] That doesn't mean [...] er Einstein's theory of relativity. [665] ... The training to be really effective and to get round to ... this bit monitoring evaluating training, I need a step. [666] To tell them a subject what's the next step I've gotta do? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[667] [...] minute you had me really worried [...] thank you. [668] We need some objectives. [669] ... What's an objective? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[670] Something you want to get across. ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[671] It is something you want to get across ... an objective is? [672] What did somebody say? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[673] A goal. |
| (PS3KK) |
[674] A goal. [675] ... spe spe spe spe spe spe it's specific an objective should be specific. [676] What does that mean? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[677] Quantifiable, definite. |
| (PS3KK) |
[678] How do you do that? [...] and, and this voice comes out over here |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[679] What do you think specific I give up you started, you started so you can finish. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[680] [...] quantifiable. |
| (PS3KK) |
[681] It's quantifiable. [682] Is that possible to do in training? [683] Quantifiable, most of the training you do can you actually say at the end of this training session you will be able to |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[684] Yeah? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[685] Ah, that's within the training, but if you gotta, if you're gonna train somebody or especially a group of people you've gotta have some objective that is specific. [686] Remember at the beginning of this course what was our objectives? [687] That we'll be able to ... list |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[688] [...] training cycle. [689] Is that specific? [690] What else is it? [691] It's [...] ... it's er pneumonic. [692] Have you ever heard of it? [693] S specific, objective should be smart. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[694] Or you could put [...] magical? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[695] Manageable. |
| (PS3KK) |
[696] [laugh] I thought you said magical, I was gonna say well, no. [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[697] Spelt correctly, there should be an E there shouldn't there? [698] ... I'm not sure, No. [699] [...] . By the end of this course |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[700] Ah right ... achievable for who? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[701] Right, achievable for the trainer ... [...] limited to time aren't we? [702] Could I train you in like Einstein's rela theory of relativity in an hour? [703] It's not achievable ... for me, cos achievable is for you as a trainer ... Realistic? [704] Who for? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[705] The trainee. |
| (PS3KK) |
[706] Trainee, yes. [707] We're getting there. [708] Trainer, trainee ... Have you wondered about the, thought about the [...] ... [...] ... |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] ... |
| (PS3KK) |
[709] [...] ... So there's your objective, it's got to be specific and re-focused on an, on an activity and we should be able to measure training, not always easy is it? [710] Something about skills ... you know like telephone technique ... you know how can you measure somebody's telephone technique? [711] ... Difficult ... you might have certain standards they must achieve, now for example er ... [...] answer the telephones in three rings, answer your name and your department is that measurable? [712] Yeah, yeah you gotta check this don't you the B T so you can measure them. [713] Achievable for yourself, can you actually get those over ... within the training session? [714] Realistic for your trainees in terms of what, are they capable of absorbing them ... and then time. [715] [...] is by the end of the week and you will be able to process form X Y Z by the end of this session you will be able to [...] . [716] Does that make sense? [717] Yeah. [718] Yeah? [719] How many of your objectives are ... have many of you got objectives for your training session tomorrow? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[720] Yeah, seriously. [721] Who's got objectives? [722] Are they smart? [723] ... Specific? [724] Measurable? [725] These ones you don't need to concentrate on too much but achievable realistic there's an amount of mixed audience tomorrow aren't we? [726] And you just look down the route now and decide whether they're achievable or realistic. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[727] But they're certainly [...] aren't they? [728] Not within fifteen minutes you'll [...] to but at the end of this session you will be able to process [...] how to tell us the five main points five main benefits of a certain policy. [729] ... A few tips then on training objectives. [730] ... We went out [...] bit like one of these er soap powder adverts ... which of these two objectives would you alright given the option to, decide that that is a ... a good training objective and which isn't so good? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[731] The first one [...] just understand it, you want to actually be able to do it. |
| (PS3KK) |
[732] Nine out of ten objectives holders ... agreed with you on that. [733] Is there anyone not [...] anyone not understand? [734] ... Does anyone not understand? [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[735] Which is the best training objective? [736] ... Training will be able to complete a G S F three six five four. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[737] They've got to understand it as well |
| (PS3KK) |
[738] Right, how do you measure understanding? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[739] Right, can you see the logic behind it? [740] It's a finite, I'm not gonna spend too long on this. [741] When I'm writing a course or even a session within the course, do you know what I spend most of my time writing the objective after a you know, you know but not after [...] . [742] Before I start I actually spend most of my time writing a behavioural measurable etcetera objective. [743] The argument says in pure training terms is that that one is the best, because it actually says that training will be able to complete ... the form. [744] You can measure that can't you? [745] ... Can you? [746] How do you measure that ... that the trainee will understand? [747] How do you measure understanding? [...] haven't we. [748] Why the fact that they can complete it. [749] Perhaps it's that encompasses that, that is your objective, the second one the trainee will understand how to complete, what does your audience think? |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[750] They don't have to do it. [751] Because if you in training like one of the things that the big bonus on this course is the trainee will be able to run a training session. [752] Does that focus your light on your coming on this training course? [753] Yeah? [754] We're all benefited competitiveness aren't we? [755] We all wanna do as well as the next person sitting next to us don't we? [756] True? [...] driving courses when our training. [757] So if we actually sent out training instructions the trainee will understand how to run a training session. [758] Should we be so [...] up about going on this course or so worried about it? [759] You wouldn't would you? [760] And I wouldn't be able to attest it. [761] Cos you could turn round to me and say oh we didn't know we had to do it and you could use that as ... what? [762] ... So as any guidelines here and there is a handout on this, so I won't, I won't tell you that cos there's too much on here. [763] Where's a bit of paper? [764] ... In order to write objectives and as I say we're not gonna labour this point because it, it's easy [...] . [765] One of the key things to think about is action verbs. [766] ... So an example of words we should use are this example and there's a handout [...] to write, to recite, to identify, to differentiate, to solve, to construct, to list, to compare, to controls. [767] You can argue about some of them, I dunno, I don't wanna make a ... big thing. [768] They're all action verbs aren't they? [769] At the end of this course you'll be able to write ... an essay on |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Elaine (PS3KL) |
[770] Einstein's theory of relativity. [771] You'll be able to recite ... Blake's, can't even remember [...] Blake's [...] er recite I don't know, somebody somebody who recited the poem. [772] You will be able to identify ... is that a good one? [773] Identify, it's not so good is it that one? [774] What about identify the five major steps towards writing a training course? [775] It's more specific. [776] You've gotta think about content but that's a generalization. [777] Words that perhaps will help you are the words we should avoid using. [778] ... At the end of this session you will know four steps well what does that mean? [779] Am I gonna test you on it? [780] I'm not am I? [781] How do I know that you know? [782] By getting you to do something. [783] You will understand, come on hands up who's going to understand their objective tomorrow? [784] ... I have, I've got an objective tomorrow it says understanding. [785] Right, appreciate ... how does, how does somebody appreciate the difference between key plan and a ... golden key plan? [786] Is there such a thing? [787] No, well it doesn't matter, you've got the idea. [788] Er how ... how do you grasp a significance of? [789] ... You see what we're saying, it's, it's the words you use in your objective. [790] ... You will enjoy being here at this course, you will enjoy the training. [791] You can't test that can you? [792] I certainly wouldn't bother to test it or even dare to test it now. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[793] Cos people sitting here thinking oh I thought it was gonna be a lot of fun this, it's quite difficult now. [794] The [...] I dunno where [...] I got these from [...] . [795] ... Really what the point I'm trying to make is training objectives are about doing something. [796] People are [...] do something at the end of the training and it focuses your mind to the trainer writing material. [797] If you haven't got an objective that ends up with them doing something, or listing something, then you can't test your objectives. [798] ... We develop those off your training session tomorrow. [799] Alright, so if you, don't worry if you, if you [...] . [800] I shall be available after half past five till about six o'clock if you wanna just [...] I'll be in tomorrow morning at quarter past eight. [801] [...] It's a difficult thing, this has taken years to get [...] objectives and every time the old [...] . [802] ... Right ... [...] keep one of them and hand the rest out. [803] ... Does anyone want a quick break? [804] Five minute tea break, breath of fresh air, haven't got time for a cigarette though, unless you're very, very quick. [805] ... I'll give you five minutes breath of fresh air, alright? [806] Can I ask you though if you are gonna sneak out and smoke in the conservatory er not in that passageway along there, cos the smoke detectors [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[807] I will not tell you who that secret smoker was. [808] ... You coping there alright John [...] have had a long day? |
| John (PS3KM) |
[809] No, I'm fine. |
| (PS3KK) |
[810] Are you sure? |
| John (PS3KM) |
[811] Yeah. |
| (PS3KK) |
[812] Very much aware of it [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [...] |
| (PS3KK) |
[813] Still early [...] Leeds Branch [...] |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| (PS3KK) |
[814] We are very much aware of it. |
| Unknown speaker (HYUPSUNK) |
[815] Yeah. |