BNC Text J9G

Bradford Metropolitan Council: meeting. Sample containing about 6106 words speech recorded in public context

1 recordings

  1. Tape 112403 recorded on 1991-07-16. LocationWest Yorkshire: Bradford ( Council Chamber ) Activity: Council Meeting debate

Undivided text

(J9GPSUNK) [1] I call upon the Director of Legal Services.
[2] Thank you Lord Mayor.
[3] Just on item eight and item nine, Lord Mayor, Community Health N H S Trust and Health N H S Trust, to report the fact that dispensations from the Department of the Environment have rec been received for Councillors and , enabling them to take part in the debate but er not to vote.
(J9GPSUNK) [4] Item two on the agenda of minutes.
[5] I move the minutes of the meeting of the Council held on the twenty first of May 1991 be signed as a correct record.
[6] Is there a seconder?
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [7] All those in favour please show.
[8] Think that was a pass.
[9] Item three is apologies for absence.
[10] Are there any apologies for absence?
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [11] [whispering] sorry []
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [12] Councillor and apologies for absence from Councillor
(J9GPSUNK) [13] Item four on the agenda are written announcements from me, the Lord Mayor.
[14] Fire bell and evacuation procedure.
[15] I've been asked by the building custodian, acting on behalf of the fire service, to inform you that, should the fire alarm sound, you are required to leave the building in an orderly fashion by the nearest exist.
[16] No-one will be allowed to stay or return until the building has been checked.
[17] I know that members will share my sadness at the death of Mister , the former Managing Director of the .
[18] Mister was associated with the theatre from its very beginning in 1914 when, on the opening night, he was there as a pageboy, until his retirement in 1974.
[19] In the words of , General Manager of the Entertainments Section, without management and dedication the would not have survived to become the major force in British theatre that it is today.
[20] I represented the Council at Mister funeral service.
[21] Would members please rise and stand in silence in memory of Mister ... Thank you.
[22] joined the Borough Council as Chief Assistant at Museum in 1965.
[23] At Local Government reorganisation in 1974 he was appointed as the Field Officer to set up the innovatory Biological Databank.
[24] Since that date, under his leadership, his team have established an outstanding reputation, providing an ecological consultancy service to Local Authorities, Water th Water Companies, the National Coal Board and private Companies.
[25] Its work ranges from soil analysis to Civil Engineering firms, to drawing up green plans for Local Authorities.
[26] Now renamed Ecological Advisory Service, service has been recognised in the Birthday Honours List by the award of the M B E. His service can be summed up in his own words.
[27] It gets me closer to my ultimate goal, doing all I can to enhance the environment we live in.
[28] Mister is here with us today
(J9GPSUNK) [whispering] [...] []
(J9GPSUNK) [29] and I am sure that members would want to join me in extending warmest congratulations to him on his well-deserved award.
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [30] I would like to extend a warm welcome to the two South Africans who are attending tod today's meeting of Council.
[31] and are
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [32] are on three months' placement with, on a three months' placement with the Authority until the middle of September as part of a six months' training programme organised by the South African Advanced Educational Project.
[33] The overall aim of the programme is to provide high level training and work experience for black South Africans with senior management potential, in order that they can participate fully in providing Local Government services in a post-apartheid dem democratic South Africa.
(J9GPSUGP) [34] hear hear
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [35] I hope that you enjoy the remainder of your stay in .
[36] The Lady Mayoress and I were honoured to have y have the pleasure of your company when you visited us recently.
[37] Thank you very much.
[38] And finally, not on the green sheet, I will tell you, to put you all out of your misery, that tea has been arranged for six thirty.
[39] Six thirty, tea.
[40] A deadly silence at that.
[41] S'alright.
[42] Ha ha.
[43] Item five, inspection of internal documents.
[44] I call on the Director of Legal Services.
(J9GPSUNK) [45] There've been no complaints against restrictions Lord Mayor.
(J9GPSUNK) [46] Item six which are petitions.
[47] I move the petition to be presented from persons requesting the Council to provide facilities for a community centre and youth club at the be received.
[48] Is there a seconder?
[49] All in favour please show.
[50] That is carried.
[51] Will the p petitioners please come forward ... I would welcome you to the meeting.
[52] You sp can speak for not more than five minutes.
[53] However, take your time.
[54] Please start when you're ready.
(J9GPSUNK) [55] Thank you.
[56] Lord Mayor, members of the Council.
[57] I and my colleague thank you on behalf of the people in for this opportunity of presenting our case for acceptance of this petition.
[58] Past occurrences, however, make us sceptical about receiving a positive response from a body who, on past performance, have been negligent in the provision of services and facilities for the community of .
[59] Contrary to public belief, is not a suburb of but an expanding community in its own right, devoid of facilities and services afforded to others under your jurisdiction.
[60] Consequently, in the limited time allotted, I will endeavour to emphasise how important such facilities and services are to the community.
[61] The teenage element of the community have one inadequate youth club which does not have the facilities to provide the required range of activities and no amount of proposed refurbishment will entice the majority to attend a club which is badly situated and of dubious reputation.
[62] has a youth problem.
[63] Drugs, glue sniffing, under age drinking and the like are very prevalent amongst the older teenagers and their influence on others a cause for concern.
[64] Certain residents are continuously subjected to unnecessary loutish behaviour and areas of the village frequently vandalised.
[65] Complaints go unactioned and complaints are [sound fades for short time] .
[66] Whilst this is obviously a concern, it can be acted upon, but the influence on others, who have nothing else to do, far more damaging.
[67] The other end of the spectrum is the equally large population of elderly and retired people of the village who quite simply have nothing.
[68] The , part of the estate, purchased by the then Village Council in nineteen hundred and five for the benefit of the village, would provide a home for a community centre and youth club which, properly run and organised, would be a considerable asset to the village.
[69] Proper liaison with schools and other groups within the village and the utilisation of other premises would enable these problems to be resolved.
[70] The premises are currently occupied by the Community College who, by their unwarranted eviction of the ideal non-political Club for gentlemen of the village, prompted this action.
[71] The Local Council, in nineteen hundred and four, had the courtesy to call a rate payers' meeting to discuss the proposed acquisition of the estate and, with the approval of the meeting, proceeded with their purchase.
[72] The college, apparently with your approval, are proceeding with the eviction of the club against the wishes of the members, Local Parish Council, Community Council and the residents of the village.
[73] Rather than lose a small but integral part of the community, the petition was raised to obtain facilities which would be of benefit to the community.
[74] We suggest that the eviction is an unsubstantiated, politically motivated, empire building exercise of no benefit to the village.
[75] The college have stated that they require the room to facilitate the attendance of disabled students and or aerobic classes.
[76] The facts are, aerobic classes are not on the syllabus, facilities for the disabled are highly commendable but not practical in premises where most classes are held in upstairs locations.
[77] The was occupied, against the wishes of the village, by the college, with no improvements to premises considered unsafe and too dangerous to be continued to be used as a public library.
[78] The proposed courses for the next term confirm that the college will be only using fifty percent of the available time and space for eight months of the year.
[79] Would you accept this situation when your village is desperate for facilities and services to enhance community activities and lifestyle?
[80] The college cannot justify the use of its facilities, let along expand its activities, as it has neither the resources or required support facilities.
[81] It is highly likely, also, that the majority of courses will continue to be under-subscribed.
[82] The Council should emulate its predecessors and, without political prejudice, serve the best interests of the communities under their charge, and take the following action.
[83] Close the college, try and absorb the classes into the adequate facilities or re relocate elsewhere in the village in Council-owned premises that are more suitable, have been extensively refurbished and, if required, facilitate the expansion of the college curriculum.
[84] Two, rescind the eviction of the club.
[85] Three, permit the grange to be used as requested.
[86] In conclusion, it should be obvious that the people of the village oppose the erosion of its community facilities and that their needs are far greater than that of an insignificant empire builder.
[87] Thank you.
(J9GPSUNK) [88] Thank you.
[89] Does any member wish to move the subject matter be referred to the appropriate member body?
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUGP) [laugh]
(J9GPSUNK) [90] Seconded, Lord Mayor.
(J9GPSUNK) [91] Item seven which is membership of committees.
[92] Call upon Councillor to move a motion, details of which have been circulation.
[93] I believe they've now been altered.
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [94] Have they been altered?
(J9GPSUNK) [95] Been altered?
(J9GPSUNK) [96] Yes
(J9GPSUNK) [97] Er I I I wouldn't
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [98] Oh sorry, one two nine, sorry.
[99] Er, I I move I move the motion that the education members deleted Cou Councillor and added Councillor
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [100] All in favour?
(J9GPSUNK) [101] Sorry
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [102] I think it's carried.
[103] Only just.
[104] Good.
[105] Councillor m Councillor
(J9GPSUNK) [106] My Lord Mayor, I'd like to move that on the standing order A seven small D the debates on the items leading to Community Health N H S Trust and Health Service's application to become N H S Trust be combined in the interests of the efficient despatch of business at this meeting and that, in the usual way, they'll both then be taken separately on each matter.
[107] I sum up Lord Mayor.
(J9GPSUNK) [108] favour?
[109] Yes.
[110] Clearly carried.
[111] So, under item eight which is the Community Health National Health Service Trust, call upon Councillor to move the amendmen the recommendation of the Social Services Committee.
(J9GPSUNK) [112] Thank you Lord Mayor [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [113] Call upon Councillor to move amendment A?
[114] I'm sorry a seconded by?
[115] Ok.
[116] Call upon Councillor to move amendment A standing in his name.
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [117] Seconded?
(J9GPSUNK) [118] Seconded my Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [119] Call upon Councillor to move amendment B standing in his name.
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [120] Is there a seconder?
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [121] Item nine which is Health Service application to become a National Health Service Trust, call upon Councillor to move the recommendation of the Socialis Social Services Committee.
(J9GPSUNK) [122] Moved Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [123] Is there a seconder?
(J9GPSUNK) [124] Now then, we'll move to the speakers.
[125] Councillor .
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [126] Thank you Lord Mayor.
[127] In 1942 at the Labour Party Conference they adopted a motion moved by that gave, and I quote, the right to all forms of medical attention and treatment to a National Health Service.
[128] This was finally achieved on the fifth of July 1948 when the Labour Government implemented the Beveridge Report.
[129] It's worth recording that the Conservative Opposition voted against a National Health Service Bill in fa February 1946.
[130] The birth of the National Health Service was also the birth of the Conservative opposition to a free health service.
(J9GPSUGP) [131] hear hear
(J9GPSUNK) [132] The only difference between then and now is that in 1946 the Conservatives were more honest.
[133] Now they hide their intentions regarding the Health Service behind the word reform.
[134] Reform of the Health Service has been rejected by the British people.
[135] Every poll, every questionnaire, has proved this.
[136] In a recent questionnaire on a Hospital Trust in , ninety percent of the medical staff, the medical staff, voted against the implementation of a Trust.
[137] Conservative Ministers have explained this by saying that the questions are loaded.
[138] However, the newspaper asked a simple straight-forward question, are you in favour of a self-governing Trust?
[139] The response was three to one against.
[140] The Government know what the people want.
[141] They are choosing to ignore it, just as they did with the poll tax.
(J9GPSUNK) [142] hear hear
(J9GPSUNK) [143] The public's lack of confidence in the National Health Service is in direct proportion to their lack of confidence in the Government's promises.
[144] They know that yet another public asset is about to be hived off, with more promises of greater efficiency and better public service.
[145] The same things that were promised for the gas, electricity and water, but in rel reality the only section to gain are the fat cats at the top who have recently been given it's obscene pay increases.
(J9GPSUGP) [146] hear hear
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [147] Talking of benefits, the benefits said to accrue from a Trust can be achieved under the present arrangements.
[148] Those are not my words, those are the words of Mister , who made a presentation to Social Services on behalf of the Trust.
[149] In his view it would not happen as easily or as quickly but the key point is, it could happen while maintaining the status quo.
[150] When Mister presented a case for the Trust, the main point of the proposal seemed to be that the application is only being made to prevent being swallowed by the or Trust.
[151] He freely admitted that if the present Government continued, would be completely swallowed up by 1993.
[152] At a time when is moving nearer to empowering the people and devolving decisions, the implementation of a self-governing Trust is moving policy in the opposite direction.
[153] It's putting a power into the hands of faceless Directors, picked by the Government, just as they pick their friends to head up the privatised National Industries.
[154] Councillor has been very vocal about a select committee.
[155] He has said there is no need and his group is against the proposal.
[156] Well we would expect his group to be against it.
[157] His group are against accountability.
[158] His group are against area panels and neighbourhood forums where k people can be heard and their views taken into account.
[159] His group are not for listening, they're for telling people.
[160] Something else, therefore, it's for selling, especially public assets, and they get two pluses in that.
[161] They gain the money but [...] public accountability for those services.
[162] Once facilities are transferred to a Trust the ability of local communities to influence decision making virtually disappears.
[163] Previously Health Authorities were required to consult over the closure of any facilities.
[164] This g this safeguard disappears once the facilities are managed by a Trust.
[165] It is that gap that the select committee will fill.
[166] We'll not allow these unelected faceless Tory supporters to keep the public in the dark.
[167] The select committee will be a focal point for patients, potential patients and their relatives.
[168] As I said at the beginning, the National Health Services was born in 1948 through the efforts of the Labour Party, the first comprehensive free health service in the world.
[169] For forty three years it has been the jewel in the crown of the Labour Party legislation and for forty three years the Labour Party has defended the National Health Service against all comers.
[170] [...] by the British people, we will continue to fight any attempt to send the Health Service the same way as the gas, electric and water.
[171] Lord Mayor I so move.
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [172] Thank you Lord Mayor.
[173] I suppose I ought to start by saying, what's up doc?
[174] Because I think the first question to ask is, just what is this all about?
[175] What is this Trust status all about?
[176] Why is it being pursued?
[177] What's the reasoning behind it?
[178] Now, if we are talking about Community Health Services, let's just examine what those words actually mean.
[179] First of all, services, the last word there.
[180] Well of course you can make profit from services.
[181] The private sector makes a lot of profit from a lot of different services provided, but that's not my idea of what public services are, or should be.
[182] And don't forget we're told time and time again, almost ad nauseam, that this is to remain a public service within the National Health Service.
[183] So just tell us, how does that fit in?
[184] How does it all tie in when you look at the requirements stated in the document to actually make a profit on the provision of health services.
[185] now, to make profit on the provision of health services, to some people may seem immoral.
[186] To me it seems particularly loathsome and, when you look at the experiences in countries like America where it operates, you'll see that we want no part of it in this country.
[187] But the return is required, it's on page twenty seven of the document, and how is it to be achieved?
[188] Well, if you look at the document, it refers to the bureaucracy, the elimination of the bureaucracy, and how is it going to be done?
[189] Four point nine of the Trust submission, well it's gonna be limit eliminated because the Trust will be accountable to the Secretary of State.
[190] Now he's gonna be a very busy man this person, if it is still a man, who's going to make sure that all these Trusts are acting in an accountable way and eliminating all this bureaucracy.
[191] If he does it without any help I shall be totally amazed and I think that it's simply a facility to assume that there're gonna be reductions in bureaucracy simply by centralising because the record from the past shows that the reverse is the case.
[192] So where else are the savings gonna come from?
[193] Well, if you look in the document again, there are some wonderful euphemisms in here, er these changes will be implemented throughout the services, page eight, and it will result in increased flex increased flexibility in staffing arrangements and in the general relationship to their employees.
[194] Now, what does that mean to you?
[195] I know what it means to me.
[196] Jobs down the road, that's what it means to me.
[197] Now the next word is health, [...] because I've seen no strong reasoning, no strong convictions, that there's gonna be any advantages in health terms in ter er as opposed to directly managed units.
[198] I am worried that some people will see this as a mental health trust and I am very disappointed that the emphasis has been placed there and not on services such as the district nurse service which gets scanty coverage within the document.
[199] But lastly I'd like to come to the word community, about which I feel so strongly.
[200] One of the advantages so called
(J9GPSUNK) [201] did not involve the appropriate bodies like Community Health Councils or the Trade Unions.
[202] It's conclusions, we're not subject to consultation but we're instead given wide and extensive publicity in a series of elaborate video roadshows, with information cascading down.
[203] But no notice was taken of information or opinion cascading up.
[204] The changes that're taking place, whether or not hospitals opt out, are changing N H S culture.
[205] Managers will no longer concentrate on the provision of good quality care but will in will br but will embroiled in the nightmare of contractual agreements and a preoccupation with costs.
[206] In those hospitals that opt out, there will be even more pressure to drive down costs and with it the loss of quality care to potential loss of employment and poor returns and conditions of employment for those still employed in the Trust.
[207] The Trust makes no commitment to improve the serious levels of low pay.
[208] For years, local managers have hidden behind a national agreement, privately agreeing that pay levels or poor, that they have no influence on the decisions made at national level.
[209] The staff are now not convinced that with the freedom now offered to managers to negotiate local pay bargain, that these historic low levels of pay will improve.
[210] Instead, it is feared that harmonisation of conditions may level down and not raise up.
[211] The Health Trust application has no mandate from the public it serves, nor from the staff it employs.
[212] The decision was made by senior managers and Health Authority members, none of whom now have any local accountability.
[213] About twenty to twenty five percent of the senior cl clinicians opposed the application and the percentage figure amongst other disciplines will be far higher and, as has been said, the main motivation to seek Trust status, is based upon a financial squeeze on with it's neighbours and also seeking Trust status.
[214] For to remain as a directly managed unit would place a question mark on it's future.
[215] The self interest of the senior managers has promoted the interest in the Trust application and not to a commitment to provide and maintain high quality care.
[216] Reference has been made to planning, that er the five to ten year cycle has er proved inadequate.
[217] That hasn't been because er Authorities recently have been unable to assess medical and clinical needs, but through a lack of resources.
[218] In future I believe that planning will be worse because there'll be no sort of overview, and that it will lead to an over provision of the profitable services and inadequate provision of services like mental illness, the elderly and those with learning difficulties.
[219] And the Trade Unions don't regard the N H S as a an employment exchange, but what we do expect is consultation and involvement in those changes.
[220] And what we do oppose, what we do oppose, is not inefficiency, but what we do want is quality care.
[221] In the recent experience of private contracts in the Health Service is no doesn't foretell of any great quality in the future.
[222] And itself has been a victim of that poor quality when private contracts were employed in the domestic service.
[223] So I suppose that really to say that we're not er involved in [...] that we're not against efficiency.
[224] Choice will be limited in the future, as opposed to being better for the patients, since contractual agreements will be dictated by the purchasers and by the G P fund holders.
[225] There's no greater choice for the patients there.
[226] Just to conclude, I share the view expressed already by Councillor , that just as the issue of the elderly persons homes brought about the loss of control for the Conservatives in , be sure the Health Service will bring about the downfall of the Conservatives in White Hall.
[227] Thank you.
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [228] Lord Mayor [...] fifteen B I move the vote now be put.
(J9GPSUGP) [229] hear hear
(J9GPSUNK) [230] Seconded
(J9GPSUNK) [231] carried forty nine thirty six.
[232] We'll now proceed to vote on the on the two motions.
[233] Remember that while we debated them both together, the vote will be taken as separate items.
[234] Equally, I want to remind those who have declared an interest, that they should not vote.
[235] The first vote is on item eight Community Health N H S Trust.
[236] Will those who are in favour of amendment B moved by Councillor please show ... Those against.
[237] Well, it's obviously a lot more, so I declare it [...] .
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [238] Will those in favour of amendment A moved by Councillor please show.
[239] Those against.
[240] I think it can be safely said that that's lost.
[241] Those in favour of the substantive motion please show.
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [242] Forty seven
(J9GPSUNK) [243] Those against
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [244] Thirty, thirty two
(J9GPSUNK) [245] [whispering] yes []
(J9GPSUNK) [246] That is carried.
[247] Forty seven votes, thirty two against.
[248] We now move to item nine which is the Health Service application to become a National Health Service Trust.
[249] Those in favour of the substantive motion please show.
(J9GPSUNK) [250] Yes
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [251] Ok
(J9GPSUNK) [252] Those against.
(J9GPSUNK) [253] [whispering] thirty two []
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [254] That is also carried.
[255] Forty seven votes, thirty two against.
(J9GPSUNK) [256] My Lord Mayor, can I just point out, I didn't see Councillor hand going in the air.
(J9GPSUNK) [257] He's got an interest.
(J9GPSUGP) [258] [whispering] he's disclosed an interest []
(J9GPSUNK) [259] He's disclosed an interest
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [260] N item ten on the agenda, building a better .
[261] I call upon Councillor to move the recommendation of the policy and resources committee.
(J9GPSUNK) [262] I so move my Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [263] Seconded my Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [264] I call upon Councillor to move amendment C standing in his name.
(J9GPSUNK) [265] Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [266] Seconded?
(J9GPSUNK) [267] Ah, the poison chalice.
[268] What sweet draft.
(J9GPSUGP) [laugh]
(J9GPSUNK) [269] Fourteen months ago we were told by all and sundry, particularly the media that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to recover from the despair and the destruction of the [...] era and yet, here we sit today, with a Labour majority of sixteen, the biggest Labour majority since this Council was formed.
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [270] What a complete condemnation of the Thatcherite policies that were attempted to be brought in by the controlling group opposite.
[271] We have turned this Council round, reflecting as closely as possible the values that the community expressed in the local elections of May 1990 and May 1991.
[272] The five themes that we've adopted in building a better will build on the progress we made in meeting the challenge and making the change.
[273] Improving the quality of life.
[274] This year will see a visible improvement in the quality of life of people in the district.
[275] Providing fairer shares will see the building blocks of the anti-poverty strategy being brought into action.
[276] Empowering local communities, that's what really frightens the Tories, because what it means is they'll never be able to come back with those repressive and regressive policies that they brought in two years ago.
[277] Creating positive partnership.
[278] The private sector breathed a great sigh of relief when the Labour group was returned to power in this city.
(J9GPSUGP) [laugh]
(J9GPSUNK) [279] And supporting the social charter, moving towards 1992, rejecting the negative approach of the Tory Government towards social reform within the community.
[280] Members of Council will know that the objective of changing the culture of the Council has gone because we've largely done the job.
[281] We've won widespread support both within the Authority and outside, with the voluntary sector, with the private sector and with other agencies, for our approach to regenerating the city.
[282] But what of the opposition?
[283] Where've they been?
[284] What a lame excuse for an opposite.
[285] We understand that was de-mob happy for quite some time and erm I know he's been disappointed recently with the Tories losing control of the local Council down down in the happy glades down South but the pink gin and pink knickers approach of Councillor is becoming a joke.
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [286] There's clearly, there's clearly a no turning back group being formed on the Tory back benches with those Councillors who feel aggrieved after the night of the long knives.
[287] The opposition though feels nothing more than a tickle with a feather boa, obviously a pink one.
(J9GPSUGP) [laugh]
(J9GPSUNK) [288] Even officers are sniggering behind their hands as Tory Councillors pass by.
[289] One, because they were duped by Councillor and his attempts to further his own ambitions and two, because of the complete lack of direction which they have shown as a group under the leadership of Councillor .
[290] That lame approach is mirrored in the amendment that we find before us today.
[291] Stopping to personal attacks, my my.
[292] Using information with no relevance to , in my Liverpool home.
[293] All I seek is to be judged on my record and the record of this group.
[294] I will deal with problems to the best of my ability and I ev have every respect for all other leaders who try and do the same, particularly , the leader of .
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [295] The opposite is so limp that I'm becoming paranoid, I'm developing a twitch, Councillor .
[296] I wonder what it could be?
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [297] It must be the G B H tactics of your parliamentary candidates.
(J9GPSUGP) [laugh]
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [298] Despite Tory attempts , despite Tory attempts to darken the skies over , we have emerged into the sunlight, with building a better we will build a brighter future and I move the recommendation.
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [299] Councillor
(J9GPSUNK) [300] Thank you Lord Mayor.
[301] I certainly won't be controversial.
[302] I will end up on time.
[303] So I drink pink gin.
[304] I actually drink Tetley's bitter if preferred.
[305] What I don't do is pretend to be a socialist, organise five hundred pound a head er ticket dinners as Neil Kinnock does, [...] champagne and then have the gall next day to go to on the nineteenth of July, on the very day when saw what the Labour Group are doing to this city.
[306] When Councillor and his Party showed the care and concern they have for our staff, when sixty members of our staff on that day attended a committee meeting of this Council to see the Labour leader open it and shut it without any debate whatsoever and walk out of the room.
(J9GPSUGP) [307] hear hear
(J9GPSUNK) [308] Quite shameful and showing what Labour Party has achieved.
[309] I think it was a pathetic spectacle and what the papers we have in front of us that the Labour party have prepared doesn't say are their achievements, I am not surprised they have tried to hide.
[310] Labour Councillors vote for a hundred and seventy four pound per couple increase in community charge, one of the biggest in the United Kingdom.
[311] Labour Councillors charge community charge payers an extra seventeen pound each for those members of the public that they have urged not to pay the community charge.
(J9GPSUGP) [312] hear hear
(J9GPSUNK) [313] The obscenity, the obscenity of a Labour Councillor, Councillor in , saying his principles mean he won't pay the community charge, but his principles do not extend to not claiming over fifteen hundred pounds worth of expenses, paid for by those people who are paying the community charge in .
[314] Labour Party say they want to tackle crime in and we have, and I hope we will debate later on this agenda, the situation where a Labour Chairman of the Police Complaints Committee turns up a public meeting urging er law- breaking and support for people who are not actually gone to trial an a the circumstances of the events really does not concern us but it's the fact that leaflets are now circularising this city, printed by our old friends, the resource centre, urging people to join the Defence Committee, which is supported by the University Labour Party , is supported by the West Labour Party and is supported by the Police Complaints Committee no less.
[315] Now Councillor thinks that it was just an accident and people will understand.
[316] People will not understand that.
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [317] I am shocked.
(J9GPSUNK) [318] Labour Party have crippled
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [319] Not a vote already
(J9GPSUNK) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [320] Yes, Councillor , will you keep to the subject under discussion and not involving a lot of personal abuse.
(J9GPSUNK) [321] Of course I will Lord Mayor.
[322] I didn't plan to deviate from it at all for the rest of my speech anyway.
(J9GPSUNK) [323] Well you have up to now.
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [324] Not drinking any of my gin Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [325] Labour Councillors in have crippled Social Services, have reneged on their promises to the people of when one of the biggest lies we've seen on any political papers in was that they would defend and not close elderly persons homes.
[326] Labour Councillors have set up over a hundred new Council Committee meetings, an extra six hundred meetings a year, and the hundreds of thousands of pounds that is gonna cost the people of , not the community charge payers, not the community charge payers, but those people, the elderly and the handicapped who are looking for services from this Authority, which the Labour Group will say, we can't afford to provide cos the Government doesn't send us enough money.
[327] And so, Kinnock goes to .
[328] I'm glad you brought in the subject of , the leader of the Labour Council er in which means I am not deviating, and saying that Mister and saying that Mister is now running a moderate Council.
[329] Last week pickets stopped ambulances taking mentally handicapped to schools in .
[330] Last week, adults waiting to go to a school for the adult mentally handicapped were taken there three hundred and fifty and only ten teachers were allowed into the school.
[331] At childrens' hall, which was picketed for two days, picketed for two days, by this now happy band of Labour people in
(J9GPSUNK) [332] Coun c c Councillor
(J9GPSUNK) [333] I'm responding to the
(J9GPSUNK) [334] No you are not
(J9GPSUNK) [335] I am
(J9GPSUNK) [336] You're now talking on anoth on a subject of the Authority which is nothing whatever to do with us this afternoon.
[337] Please come back to the sub matter under discussion.
(J9GPSUNK) [338] I certainly will Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [339] Be impartial sir
(J9GPSUNK) [340] A o one tends to get confused Lord Mayor.
[341] If Councillor wants to go and get a G B H haircut it tends to confuse us on this side of the er [...] as to exactly what we are debating.
(J9GPSUGP) [laugh]
(J9GPSUGP) [...]
(J9GPSUNK) [342] Councillor says he has turned this Council around.
[343] The Labour Group have certainly turned this Council around.
[344] They've turned it from a Council that was determined to tackle the social deprivation in this city, was determined to tackle the disadvantaged, such as racial disadvantaged, by supporting the C T C, which gives a unique opportunity to Asian children in this city for education.
[345] We are pleased to see that at least the Labour Party now are deciding that they can at last work with the Government.
[346] The Government's new City Challenge Initiative, which we are all hoping will be accepted er on behalf of, that they are willing to look at social partnership with firms, although we have reservations about some of their proposals er in that area.
[347] Yes, they've turned this city round.
[348] Yes, they've turned the people in this district round from the way they were heading.
[349] There is now problems on the streets of , there is anger in the outer areas that through your postal code politics people are not getting a fair deal in the outer areas of this city.
(J9GPSUGP) [350] hear hear
(J9GPSUNK) [351] And what more, what more should we expect from a Party that is led nationally by a man who, in 1983, says, there are no circumstances in which I would order or permit the firing of a nuclear weapon, which leads somebody to say, Kinnock's lust for power is so great that he's prepared to ditch any principle to get it.
[352] And that's not from a Conservative, that's from the present Chairman of C N D, and wasn't a spectacle that was last week.
[353] And we have a nuclear basement, before you stop me, what a spectacle that was last week.
[354] He hasn't even the decency to announce it public himself.
[355] He sends a runner, Kaufman, to announce it.
[356] That's guts.
[357] That's Labour politics.
(J9GPSUGP) [358] hear hear
(J9GPSUGP) [clapping]
(J9GPSUNK) [359] Lord Mayor on a standing order A fifteen B I now move the vote now be put.
(J9GPSUNK) [360] Councillor , my Lord Mayor, in accordance with standing order A seven B and D, I propose to Council that the debate on agenda item eleven, percentage for out policy and agenda item sixteen, notice of motion number nine, people disabilities, be combined with separate votes at the end of the debate and that a provision of the order A eleven J and A fourteen K be amended to limit the number of speakers on the combined debate to three from the controlling group and three from notion parties.
[361] I so move, Lord Mayor.
(J9GPSUNK) [362] Seconded
(J9GPSUNK) [363] Those in favour.
[364] That's clearly agreed.
(J9GPSUGP) [laugh]
(J9GPSUNK) [365] Councillor
(J9GPSUNK) [366] [whispering] Councillor to move it []
(J9GPSUNK) [367] I call upon Councillor to move the recommendation
(J9GPSUNK) [368] So moved Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [369] Is there a seconder?
(J9GPSUNK) [370] Seconded
(J9GPSUNK) [371] Item, I call upon Councillor to move amendment D standing in
(J9GPSUNK) [372] [whispering] her name []
(J9GPSUNK) [373] her name
(J9GPSUNK) [374] I move Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [375] Is there a seconder?
(J9GPSUNK) [376] Seconded Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [377] Item sixteen er people with disabilities.
[378] Call upon Councillor to move the motion standing in his name.
[379] Is there a seconder?
[380] In accordance with standing order A thirteen C, this motion will stand referred to the Policy and Resources Committee for consideration and report unless the Council decide to deal with it at this meeting.
[381] What are the Council's wishes?
(J9GPSUNK) [382] Get it over with at this meeting Lord Mayor
(J9GPSUNK) [383] Seconded?
[384] Those in favour?
[385] Clearly carried.
[386] I am going to call upon Councillor to move.
[387] Mhm?
[388] Well, Councillor
(J9GPSUNK) [389] I waive my right to speak to Council members.
(J9GPSUNK) [390] Ok.
[391] Councillor ?
(J9GPSUNK) [392] Hello.
[393] Lord Mayor, people with disabilities detest being patronised.
[394] They also detest being called the handicapped.
(J9GPSUNK) [395] hear hear
(J9GPSUNK) [396] What is more, we hate being used as political footballs by cynical politicians.
[397] It's the ultimate insult when that politician belongs to a political party that throughout twelve years of Government has washed his hands of any responsibility for the rights and aspirations of people with disabilities.
[398] Lord Mayor, I really do not have the time to speculate in detail why Councillor has made this mistake.
[399] One should say, however, in fairness to him, that he's quite a shrewd politician, for a Tory that is.
[400] After all, when the waves of Thatcherism threatened to roll up the M one and drown Local Government in