| PS40J | Ag4 | m | (Rod, age 54, professional interviewer) unspecified |
| PS40K | Ag3 | m | (Douglas, age 41, salesperson, Interviewee) unspecified |
| J9YPSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| J9YPSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| Unknown speaker (J9YPSUNK) |
[1] Good this is an interview with Douglas from Blackwood part of Motherwell. [2] Is it |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[3] Well yes the postcode's Motherwell Blackwood's er just south of Hamilton about four miles south of Hamilton two miles north of Lesmahagow. [4] Er so it's just just on the M seventy four. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[5] Just [...] . [6] Is it Lesmahagow is it? [7] Erm |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[8] It is Lesmahagow. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[9] I just wondered how that was re erm er er pronounced. [10] Now on my er you and I spoke didn't we er Douglas? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[11] Yes we did. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[12] I've got circled circled good voice here. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[13] Well I am used to the telephone. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[14] Okay. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[15] Yes yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[16] Erm you're now you're not doing anything at the moment, we we agreed it was resting. [17] Erm sales and computers Mar you were with Martin's? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[18] Retail Group yeah yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[19] Thank you. [20] Right now if you've got your application form, you've got a C V there as well haven't you ? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[21] Yes I have. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[22] Good that's great. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[23] Application form |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[24] Good. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[25] C V. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[26] I'm having a quick read through this and I'll I'll ask questions at the same time. [27] Where we what we have over on that table Douglas is a representation of er all the products and the and the compa companies that we market our products through |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[28] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[29] ranging from estate agents, and there are two on the end here from er both products are involved with estate agents, medical practices area health authorities, schools universities and colleges up in the top right there and the obvious ones down in the er [laughing] corner there [] . |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[30] [laughing] Yeah. [] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[31] And I'll ask questions as we as you're doing that erm |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[32] No problem. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[33] Okay. [34] ... This is going to be more or less in line with what erm you told me on the phone anyway isn't it? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[35] I certainly hope so yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[36] Yeah. [37] Well I can only make much notes [laughing] as my hand will allow me to [] . [38] They still use terms like Lanarkshire and Dumfrieshire up here don't they? [39] It's like us down in the in England using the old county names some times. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[40] Absolutely yeah. [41] Strathclyde covers such a oh it's a huge area. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[42] Massive area isn't it? [43] I mean in terms of population I think I somebody did er Strathclyde regional council used to be a client of mine when I was with Three M er well you know a client of my rep up here but er and they told me some time that I think a huge percentage of the whole of Scotland's population |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[44] Oh it's it's about fifty percent. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[45] Is it? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[46] Of the Scottish population . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[47] Nearly half yeah. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[48] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[49] Then you get the Highland Region and it's [laugh] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[50] Yes it's only a small percentage of such a huge chunk of land . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[51] Crazy yeah [...] geographical. [52] Yeah. [53] ... So if everything goes all right with what we discuss here today then er Douglas you can er you are available to start immediately in effect |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[54] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[55] Hope we can give you an opportunity. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[56] Yes yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[57] Oh smashing okay. [58] It's alw always very useful that er erm if we have to people have to ask us to wait around for them for five or six weeks or sometimes on a three monthly er er resignation thing it er |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[59] Yeah it er |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[60] it tends to to elongate the whole process. [61] In fact I would say that ninety five percent of the people we take on are er either resting as you are or self employed anyway. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[62] Right right. [63] I'm sure that er I'm not in an unusual position er having been made redundant twice on the trot. [64] What I'm really looking for is er the option to take charge of my life myself. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[65] I I I think certainly erm you're you're just at the age, er did we discuss this magic forty plus |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[66] [laughing] No we didn't. [] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[67] No no. [68] It's one of the delightful, I've been recruiting for a long time and it's it's one of those erm delightful things to be able to say to people on the phone when they tell me they're fifty or fifty four to say that's not a problem. [69] Because they're so used to getting rejection. [70] I've also had people at forty plus telling me the same thing which is a nonsense. [71] With all that |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[72] Yeah well what |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[73] experience down the drain is it's crazy. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[74] Yeah. [75] Last last time I was er resting was er about sixteen months ago and er I actually applied and got pretty far down the line er for a position within Woolworths only to find that er when they stated that they wanted people between the ages of twenty eight and thirty five they did actually mean that. [76] Er so regardless of the fact that er I was er well recommended and eminently suitable er for the job they wouldn't even let me go |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[77] [...] yeah |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[78] go for the the final interview. [79] Er I was forty at the time so I was five |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[80] Five years |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[81] Five years over. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[82] Yeah yeah. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[83] Mm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[84] I I think that er |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[85] It's disconcerting. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[86] I think companies well in fact B and Q erm recently announced that er not recently I mean in the last eighteen months they've started to have their er stores erm |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[87] It's actually long longer er |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[88] Longer than that? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[89] Yeah I mean I |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[90] I think Macclesfield was one of the first er |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[91] That's right that was about five years ago. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[92] Is it that long ago ? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[93] Yes I was still there er when they the initiative |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[94] They announced that. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[95] Yeah yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[96] Well I we used er used to live in Macclesfield and er of course you know it springs to mind when er but I didn't realize it was that long ago. [97] It seems so recent. [98] But I don't know whether that policy still prevails but |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[99] Erm I I think does but er I don't think it er became quite the successful initiative that er that they hoped it would be. [100] I mean I do think there are limitations with er |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[101] You still have to get good people in their fifties. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[102] That's right that's right. [103] You've still got to get good experienced people in their fifties and er whilst a lot of people have experience or a lot of experience er from their their previous working life it's not always easy to make the jump into |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[104] [...] face to face aspect isn't it? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[105] Well it's but it's it's the modern shopping experience |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[106] Oh ah you mean in other words you the fifty pluses are still |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[107] Well back in the days of the hardware stores. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[108] Yeah yes right. [109] Yeah the corner shop and all the [...] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[110] And it's going to be difficult for er a lot of people to make that transition. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[111] Yep. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[112] Er a lot of lot of people in the fifties sixties age group |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[113] May not even agree with it I don't know. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[114] Well they're still uncomfortable |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[115] Yeah. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[116] uncomfortable a bit uncertain and perhaps even a bit threatened. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[117] And a lot of them still haven't worked in large organizations |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[118] That's right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[119] and erm B and Q or wha any of those retail shops may be er that box that they see on a on an estate now but er it is a huge organization. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[120] Almost the opposite to of er what I'm looking at er coming from er being employed by larger companies to basically working for myself. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[121] Well erm take it from me that I've worked for for major American corporates and one major British corporate and er there is still something that you may miss all right. [122] This is a little bit of advice. [123] But I went erm self employed back in eighty eight. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[124] Oh so it's not long ago is it? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[125] So it's not long ago. [126] But er but I was at my late forties and er er there are still times that you you feel that that urge to be involved in the er meeting up with your mates every day or your colleagues and having a good chat about business. [127] I believe and this is why I'm involved with I believe that you get the best of both worlds here. [128] Because here you have an opportunity to go launch yourself onto a self employed erm platform and cannot provide a better platform for that and I would say that wouldn't I he's thinking. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[129] Mm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[130] But erm because I've been out there doing this and that's that was part of my if you like to come in to do the recruitment side of it, er I had to experience and I'm glad I did because there were one or two pre-judgements I had about advertising sales, as most people do, erm that I had to get wiped out of my erm my my system. [131] And I was in my early fifties when everybody tells the world that it's it's harder to adapt and get er some of the traits out of your system. [132] Er didn't take me too long to do that but certainly did about my my views on advertising. [133] They've changed quite the opposite way because er I now know that it can be done and how important advertising is to the even to the local businesses. [134] So you make er you know we've my I would have explained as much as I can on the phone exactly how we operate. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[135] Sure. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[136] Douglas now your background here is mainly erm er retail face to face but I can also read into and what er this and what you told me on the phone that there's erm quote a lot of sales as well. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[137] Absolutely. [138] Er particularly my past experience with . [139] Er I mean I was involved in direct and corporate selling. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[140] Right. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[141] Albeit briefly er in that er twelve months with er with . [142] Er I have had some successes to date. [143] Er notably er a sale for a hundred and seventy systems. [144] Er er in Yorkshire er and some |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[145] That's not bad if you got Yorkshire people to part with their brass [laughing] for [] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[146] Yeah but I'm a Scotsman er and Yorkshire |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[147] [laughing] Yes. [] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[148] Yorkshire people trust Scots |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[149] They do don't they? [150] Yeah yeah |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[151] much more than you know some from [mimicking] down south [] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[152] Yes that's right. [153] Yeah. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[154] Er it's but I don't really have any problems with with selling er I'm not hard sell er I don't believe in er stuffing things down people's throat. [155] I mean if somebody says no that's fine. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[156] Okay. [157] Well now |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[158] I don't have a problem with that. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[159] Good. [160] That last point is quite im er quite important when it comes to selling advertising. [161] I would have said to you on the phone we don't make appointments to go and see people to talk about advertising. [162] So when we do the telesale er sale on the phone bit |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[163] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[164] erm you're likely to get plenty of no's. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[165] Ah I understand that understand that. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[166] That doesn't mean to say that you'd have let them [laughing] necessarily [] get away with it on the spot but you you're still going to do a persuasive tact but in the end if they say no fine. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[167] Sure. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[168] Because there are plenty of others waiting in the wings. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[169] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[170] Er okay well let let's er let me outline erm Douglas exactly what today's meeting's all about. [171] I don't call these er interviews I call them discussions because they are self employed positions and er I seem them as a business opportunity rather than a job quote job. [172] Erm one of the things that I like to emphasize er at this stage is that although it's self employed it is as close to being employed as you can possibly be with a company but then but still destined by your own efforts to earn earn the money. [173] What I can tell you is that will provide the ultimate in backup for any self employed person that you cou I could ever wish to meet. [174] We have an infrastructure that's been built up over twenty years so er and you've read our brochure and I hope it's it was as impressive to you as it is to most people. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[175] It's a it's a very impressive er brochure very well laid out which er I would expect obviously from a from a publishing company. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[176] [laughing] Yes. [177] If they can't get that right then we ain't gonna |
| Douglas (PS40K) | [laugh] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[178] get most it right [] are we? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[179] Yeah. [180] But no I mean as I say some of the content was was was very interesting and er the concept is er well it's something that excites me. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[181] Remarkably simple yet it still needs an awful lot of erm individ er people teams of people back at head office backing you know know what I mean. [182] It looks like a locally printed or erm product which a lot of local printers could print this there's |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[183] Sure. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[184] no doubt about that. [185] But what they don't have is is that team of individuals throughout the U K funding something which is presented free to the client. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[186] Which is going to be absolutely superb for the client. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[187] You imagine ima imagine going to these clien especially doctors they'd snap your hand off. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[188] Well I can't imagine a doctor turn turning the offer down. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[189] Well he's used to getting free drugs er you know |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[190] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[191] samples and things like that . |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[192] That's right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[193] Here's something that he by law has got to have. [194] He's no option he's got to have something like this. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[195] So rather than produce a simple double sided sheet or |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[196] Aha. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[197] whatever and that he can produce a [...] quite easy. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[198] Quite entitled to produce something like that photocopied on his own photocopier. [199] Providing those basic elements |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[200] But that would actually cost him more. [laugh] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[201] Er it would cost them |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[202] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[203] erm and certainly it would not have much retention. [204] They could they'd have to keep cut back. [205] Whereas these booklets for instance are certainly retained because they're a two year thing. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[206] And he's had the size as well. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[207] Right. [208] Okay what did you glean from the er brochure erm in the main ? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[209] In terms of? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[210] Oh just generally? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[211] Very very innovative idea. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[212] Mm. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[213] Er and er well it's not just one innovative idea er it's just innovative idea after idea er which is encouraging because it er means that the company is not resting on its laurels er having found an avenue and an opportunity they don't seem to be content just to sit expanding and developing that and doing nothing else. [214] They do the expansion and the development but also looking at er other areas to move into. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[215] Well certainly er four years ago er four of those products weren't in existence. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[216] That's yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[217] And we have relied solely on estate agents up until that point. [218] And this is not the end of the story. [219] I believe in er three or four years time I will need a a table er twice the size of that for examples of the of of the material. [220] Because there are plenty of other areas that this will we haven't even started on hotels yet. [221] There are plenty of companies that do hotels bit itty bitty er |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[222] That's right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[223] but er one of our major competitors has just gone out of business so we'll get a spin off from that both in both in estates er and in the hotel scene so |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[224] Mm. [225] Why why has the competitor gone out of business? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[226] They don't have that in the infrastructure. [227] They they don't they're not paying their reps. [228] You see one of the thin well they call them reps sorry we call them consultants now. [229] Erm one of the things we guaran well the guarantees er er several guarantees we give to our our self employed consultants and that is that we will pay all commissions earned the following week |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[230] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[231] we will pay them for a start, that's that's the that's the trouble with a lot other companies and er it wouldn't be professional of me to mention names, but let me tell you that er that's one thing we do make sure that people erm get their money when when they've earned it. [232] Erm and secondly we guarantee continuity of work. [233] Nobody sits at home unless they've asked to for two or three days. [234] Nobody sits at home waiting for the next assignment. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[235] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[236] Erm particularly in the self employed capacity. [237] If we were paying them a salary then of course it's up to us whether we have them at sitting at home doing nothing, they wouldn't they'd soon get bored with it. [238] But when you're self employed it's very important to know that you're going to get |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[239] The opportunity. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[240] The opportunity. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[241] Yeah mm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[242] And that's what we provide. [243] We provide a platform for people to earn substantial money erm you know the only guarantee we give you is that we will give you the opportunity. [244] And quite quite honestly our top earners are top earners because they won't sit back and do one advertising deal a day and say, Hey aren't I clever. [245] They will do two or three. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[246] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[247] Because in fact to do all of our assignments you probably only need to do an average of one a day. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[248] I think you mentioned on the telephone now one per day gives you something like seven hundred and fifty pounds per week . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[249] Aha yep. [250] The average cost of all our ads erm co er is six hundred pound average. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[251] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[252] All right? [253] Whichever you know if you take the cost some cost twelve hundred pound for a full page others cost three hundred and fifty and some cost even two hundred and fifty pound for a small strip on the golf cards. [254] So there's there is quite a variety of across all of our companies but on average it's six hundred pound and on average it's a six thousand pound assignment er er target. [255] And if if we home in on that then certainly then that's a nice comfortable seven fifty to eight hundred pound a week. [256] But there you are that's mister average. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[257] Mhm. [258] So what er |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[259] Mister high-flier does a lot more than that. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[260] [laugh] What percentage do you actually pay er to in in commission ? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[261] In commission? [262] Well the basic is thirty percent on all advertising sales. [263] And then we er we'll talk in a bit more detail depending on which company you and I decide that er you know once we decide in fact that [...] is for you. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[264] Sure sure. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[265] Erm and I suppose I should er really start into into that erm area now and that is the purpose behind this erm meeting is er three fold. [266] Erm and once we've got one decision out the way the other two are fairly simple and that is that you and I agree that is is is the is the right time er right place and and time for you to launch yourself em employed er aspect. [267] Erm [clears throat] certainly most people will agree that you'll earn far more money as a self employed and commission only |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[268] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[269] because salary company car and all that is only one another form of commission anyway. [270] And that can be taken away from you very quickly. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[271] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[272] Whereas you could choose to take this away [laughing] if you want [] . |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[273] That's right. [274] I mean the d d difficulty I've got er is I'm sure the same as you had er about five six years ago |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[275] Mhm? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[276] is is just actually making the step. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[277] Oh sure. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[278] After twenty odd years of being er a paid employee, albeit a very [...] probably because it's I have been a very [laughing] well paid employee [] . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[279] Yes yes. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[280] It's a it's a difficult jump to make. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[281] Yes. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[282] Er but I'm pretty certain |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[283] Well you must have heard enough on the phone erm and there and there's no bull which I gave you |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[284] Oh I'm intrigued |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[285] and and seen that. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[286] I'm intrigued by it. [287] Yeah yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[288] Erm and if it's not it's er I'm not going to deny the fact that some people say you know this has been good for me for the last eighteen months erm I'm er I'm used to being self employed I'm going to stay that way but I'm looking at other avenues. [289] But what I hope what we hope of course is that some people give us a real good try. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[290] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[291] Er because I don't believe this company er could be matched in what it can give er to the individual. [292] Anyway if we dec if you and I decide that er is er is for you er the other two decisions today i er are as follows. [293] Erm we decide which company or which environment which environment you feel you might feel most comfortable within. [294] And the third one is when. [295] And I have to say that we give our commitment very quickly and we would like to think that people also give erm their commitment. [296] So once we've decided which company you'll work within I can come I can provide you with a training course immediately. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[297] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[298] And we ac we actually look for that sort of commitment too . |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[299] Okay. [300] I do I do have three or four interviews lined up and obviously I would have having been afforded the opportunity of of the interviews I would like to follow up. [301] Now these interviews are between now and the end of next week. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[302] Fine. [303] Well what I would what I would do erm I would rather have a commitment for a date to start when you go out of here and if you say if you've got if you've got something that comes up then fine. [304] Then we part. [305] Right then what I what I want want really is is something fixed [phone rings] [...] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[306] Okay understand Rod. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[307] All right? [308] If you decide that you know you've got something better or or alternative fine. [309] Hello. [310] It is Rod yes. [311] ... Yes. [312] ... Mhm. [313] ... That's ... [laughing] What you want. [] [314] ... Mhm. [315] ... Yep. [316] ... Okay fine. [317] Well you know at least you've er had the courtesy to phone which is a lot of people don't. [318] That was one o'clock wasn't it? [319] Okay thanks for your call and good luck. [320] Bye. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[321] You've had few a few callers today Rod yeah? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[322] Mm? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[323] You've had a few callers . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[324] One or two actually. [325] That's that's not bad. [326] It's it's the people who don't turn up always amaze me. [327] They they |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[328] Don't turn up and don't call. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[329] Oh yeah. [330] There must be plenty of work out there I always think. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[331] [laugh] . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[332] I can understand er I mean we had some calls off er last week mainly because erm we we took we'd spoken to those people before Christmas and we do expect people to to drop out. [333] But I still ex I still out of courtesy expect people to phone but may be I'm old fashioned. [laugh] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[334] No no I mean it's er it it it is only polite isn't it to to do that er |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[335] Yes sure. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[336] you're supposed to be [...] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[337] So to get back to what we say er yeah I like to fix a date and if people phone up and say well look I've I've got something else or I've changed my mind I would rather have that than to have lots of paper work on my desk that just says may be or may be not. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[338] Okay. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[339] Okay? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[340] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[341] Erm now you've had a chance first of all I after our chat er par particularly on the phone and I make notes of people who er I think come well across on the phone because you know how important that is to us. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[342] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[343] Er we sell the whole concept on the phone er but we also have the luxury of face to face. [344] Er which a lot of telephone sales people in whatever they're doing don't. [345] Particularly the advertising stuck in a local newspaper office phoning all the businesses under the sun. [346] They've never seen the people they phone them every week saying do you want a fifty pound advert in a paper which is dumped the next day. [347] So it's gone. [348] Whereas here we're we're selling a erm a very much more prestigious item and also a much more long term er commitment on both sides. [349] And I don't seeing any problem at all in you being able to come over well on the phone which is the important thing for us. [350] Looking at the environments where do you think you would feel most comfortable? [351] Now I that's a luxury I have to say that most recruiting people do not get. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[352] [laugh] Cert certainly the the opportunity does appear to be er huge in the the practices the medical practices. [353] Er having said that er some of the newer opportunities must have er a lot of oh catching up to do if you like er to to the levels of the estate agents and to a lesser extent the doctors surgeries. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[354] Well the estate agent er area has been around now for twenty years so they're rather used to us in that. [355] We we're we are market leaders in that we are very well known by estate er estate agent companies and er and of course er advertisers. [356] I mean the new areas of course for us er and I still count the medical practices as a new area although it's been for four years |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[357] Sure sure. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[358] we're well into erm I suppose we must be approaching somewhere in the region of two thousand surgeries out of fifteen thousand that are available to us. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[359] So there's still a huge |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[360] But we also are now in resales of course. [361] Cos every two years they're resold. [362] So the first two or three hundred we did in the first year have now been resold twice. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[363] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[364] Because it's four it's nearly five years on. [365] The universities er and schools er is probably the next well it is it's the next major growth area. [366] We're we're just about to mail may be it's gone out now, six thousand universities and colleges throughout the U K. And state schools are as interested that product as independents. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[367] Much more so nowadays I would have thought . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[368] Much more. [369] Well they've got to get bums on seats you see. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[370] That's right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[371] It's a case of parents choice. [372] So who do we er home in on? [373] All of those er folders will go out to the parents. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[374] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[375] And as soon as the parent opens up and or they're moving, and or they're moving into the area, there's the advertising for them. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[376] Yeah yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[377] And so there's prestige in going into the school. [378] And of course our most recent acquisition is the golf club company. [379] Erm and that's another. [380] So so really you've got er I was out on the medical practices so I know how successful that can be. [381] And the other thing of course about medical practices is there's no limit on the amount of advertising you're selling to. [382] Whereas all the others have specific slots. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[383] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[384] So once you've done it you can't sell any more even though there are two or three people in the wings saying can I go into it . |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[385] [...] yeah yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[386] Erm you just have to hope you can pass it on to er er the next assignment you're doing. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[387] Okay let's go |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[388] Which you |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[389] let's go for medical practices. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[390] Okay. [391] Right because certainly er this this is er wherever you go in the country there are going to be medical practices and schools, golf clubs start to get restr more restricted and estate agents strangely enough still are widely spread up in Scotland here. [392] Okay well what we'll do is home in on that. [393] And what what what you have here ... what I I you'll get to take this away of course. [394] This is an information pack which will tell you exactly what we do on medical practices. [395] First of all can I say that er remind you that there's no responsibility on your be on your part to actually go round surgeries saying do you want our product. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[396] No I understand that. [397] And that's |
| Rod (PS40J) | [...] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[398] that's one of the main attractions to be honest. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[399] Okay [laughing] yeah [] . [400] Er we we have warmed it up as much I would have said this on the phone, we've warmed it up as much as we possibly can. [401] Erm and our marketing executive who goes round signing the surgery up leaves a certain amount of information er and particularly these erm a sheet si similar to this with er we ask the practice to sit down and compile a list of businesses. [402] Erm and this of course can constitute an opportunity to do the whole of the assignment from. [403] However let's get into the real world and realize that er that medical people are not the best marketeers in the world. [404] Erm they will leave it to their practice manager and the practice manager will do his or her her best to list out as many businesses which with they have links or are local. [405] Most important thing when you receive this is on on day one of the assignment er Douglas is to not just accept that list as it is. [406] You need to sit down with the practice manager or whomever and say right now you've listed all these, why, what's peculiar about what's particular and peculiar about these that you should say that this is a good opportunity. [407] And the more information you get about those businesses the easier it's going to be for you to er to convey to them you know a lot you've done your research on them. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[408] Understand. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[409] Temptation is to get on to the phone immediately |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[410] Straight away. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[411] [laughing] straight [...] [] and erm a lot of people make that, very experienced sales people still make that mistake cost they're not used to it. [412] When you arrive at the assignment there's an envelope waiting which will contain that list. [413] Right now that that the rea other reason for qualifying that is the list may be six to nine months old. [414] So it might not have all the latest |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[415] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[416] one or two companies may have gone as we know by the by as it were. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[417] Yeah yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[418] But the er information from the for you and the doctors are included includ into the envelope er with things like such as that. [419] That tells the erm the the exactly what you're doing there. [420] Now some of the staff may not be aware that you're they're having a medical practice booklet brought together. [421] That allows them to read in comfort exactly what you're what you're gonna be doing there. [422] There's other information which will be shown to you on the on the er training school. [423] And the training school's fully expensed. [424] We have hold it at head office every week. [425] All right there's one every week. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[426] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[427] And er |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[428] Typically la last for one week? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[429] Er it typically lasts for three days. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[430] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[431] Erm and on this side we send people out for two days before they come in to training so they are at least familiar with what what we do. [432] So it's two days out in the field with one of our trainers or top people and then they come in for the three day course. [433] So they're not coming stone cold. [434] All right. [435] But that's fully expensed at all times. [436] Travel and hotel whatever okay? [437] Here's a couple of er samples of books and we I'll refer to those erm during the next er three or four minutes. [438] But what I need to show you is erm the sort of earning potential because that's quite important for you. [439] But also the pricing. [440] If I can just open those up and have a couple of samples of . [441] Now we've kept it fairly simple on the on the medical practice side and we have three sizes and three sizes only. [442] That's a full |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[443] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[444] a half and a quarter. [445] Right? [446] So four quarters will be er constitute a full page. [447] When the sales er exec on marketing goes round to contract the surgery to take that product there are two things that are generated. [448] First of all they discuss the number of booklets that we're going to produce |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[449] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[450] and that will be determined by the patient list. [451] Right? [452] So if you've got a big patient list fifteen thousand we do a three to one ratio because of course there're there're number |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[453] Number |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[454] yeah the numbers game. [455] So we will guarantee to print five thousand booklets per year. [456] That's a guarantee. [457] We can actually do unlimited publica erm print for them. [458] But at least we guarantee that's the minimum. [459] Whatever that figure is there will automatically internally produce a target figure that we want for that book. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[460] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[461] Now that target figure is identified the day you arrive at the erm at the surgery. [462] On the documentation that you receive direct from head office. [463] And that is a figure you just have to have fixed in your mind all right? [464] It's it's not if you don't reach seven thousand pound it's not a a failure situation, it's just that's we would be very happy to have that because the following year which is when no expenses come up for you know no no production costs come from erm then er that's that's the sort of profit we need to calculate for the |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[465] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[466] second year. [467] However on er on this particular product erm of course it's unlimited advertising sales. [468] [blowing nose] Excuse me. [469] Right. [470] In fact we've recently had a fourteen thousand pound booklet and you can when you take this home work out yourself exactly what that generated in three weeks for the sales consultant. [471] And you can see he was a very happy person. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[472] I'm sure he would be yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[473] Couldn't do that on the other products because there's limited number of slots. [474] However the assignment took a little bit longer than it er than if he'd been on the other product range. [475] Okay. [476] So having got that figure er fixed in my mind that's what we'd like to go for but erm and we pay thirty percent commission on all advertising sales, whatever you do however many you sell, you will get thirty percent commission and you will get it the following week, providing you do one or two things for us. [477] I if I can ask you to home in on that five thousand pound figure, once you reach five thousand pound on any assignment you get another fifteen percent bonus. [478] There's a small bonus there at four and a half but I ask people to fix in their mind |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[479] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[480] five thousand pound. [481] So that anything over five thousand pound you get another fifteen percent in other words forty five percent commission. [482] All bonuses are paid at proof stage and I'll explain why in a minute. [483] All your commissions are paid the following week but when it comes to bonuses we we there is a slight delay, two two may be two to three months. [484] Erm and the prices are as follows. [485] As I said there are just three sizes but I've got five five prices, I would just like to home in on those three. [486] Thousand pound is a full page. [487] We always launch into a thou erm a full page erm sell. [488] All right? [489] So when we get on the phone we always talk about full page. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[490] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[491] And the work downwards. [492] If you work if you work on a quarter page at three ninety and cos remember you're telling all this on the phone. [493] Unlike traditional sales where you wait until you get round there to tell them what the price is you have you have to er tell them what er the price on the phone. [494] Those are the prices and we they are premium slots. [495] That's a premium slot which would cost twelve hundred pounds. [496] All this will be gone into a lot more detail on the training course. [497] You have an allowance if you need it of ten percent on the spot. [498] If if you really need it to get the deal . |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[499] To push a sale. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[500] Erm don't s you know if you're not a discount man forget that you you just have to say I'm I'm gonna use it if I need it. [501] But if you are persistent |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[502] Or a four thousand per [...] that's the sort of thing. [503] Now that's that I have to say is achievable in two weeks just the same. [504] Because if you sold two or three full pages and may be four halves and a couple of quarters you have reached your seven thousand pound target. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[505] Yeah I mean I'd gather that look at er |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[506] Yeah. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[507] at the prices. [508] Yeah |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[509] Yeah. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[510] Yeah. [511] It's you don't have to sell a lot if er you've got a couple of full pages and a couple halves . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[512] Er in fact I would probably think that erm having looked at some of the results recently I would think that that's going to be somewhere close to average now. [513] And you er that's gonna fluctuate as well. [514] If you go into central London around east er around the East End erm that may not be an assignment that will, you see that's me prejudging. [515] It's probably gonna be a damn good book because of all the businesses wanting to get associated with the doctor. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[516] Could well be. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[517] Cos you never know. [518] One of the things I I I found it very difficult to start with I must admit is that to to prejudge that people would or would not go in. [519] Now if I point out that it's in bold erm and it preempts a question that generally comes up and that is if we er we will pay thirty percent up to a hundred miles one way away from home and er if we had to send you, and it's a big if I have to say it's a big if in especially in the medical practice side, if we had to send you more than a hundred miles we will pay another five percent. [520] However, our top earners are top earners because of two things. [521] I may have mentioned one and that is that not satisfied with one deal a day |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[522] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[523] and also they ask for those thirty five percenters. [524] And they are quite happy to put up with what I would term the inconvenience of going there and back each day |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[525] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[526] more than a hundred miles. [527] I have to say I did my assignments I went there and back I didn't I didn't mess around with staying away. [528] It was an extra cost but also I learned in the end like the top earners do er and I guess I was mister average because I was coming in to do this job not that one, erm I I decided or worked out that I could do two or three deals in a day between a certain hour. [529] So I didn't travel during rush hour and I didn't travel back during rush hour. [530] And these top earners have it to a tee. [531] They will do it between eleven and three thirty. [532] And they will have done their work. [533] The company has no problem with that because you're you know if if you're doing the business you're happy because you're getting the commission. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[534] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[535] Okay well that that's in simple terms and you've got this to take away for you to study erm then that we we that's the that's the sort of earning potential you have and it's there |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[536] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[537] especially on this side. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[538] And will certainly help pay the mortgage. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[539] Yes right good. [540] Now we will pay all those commissions on the basis of you achieving er first of all the sale but also a minimum amount of paper work. [541] And I have to say that this is the minimum I've ever seen for a sales person to have to do. [542] But it has to be absolutely right. [543] Er that which makes it as critical as as a lot of er paper work. [544] It's critical to get it right because there are situations where if you don't get it right then they have to hold some commission back and that's a pity. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[545] That's an excellent incentive to get it right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[546] I made absolutely certain I never sent in a duff contract. [547] Because it is it is very simple if you follow the guidelines and I'm gonna point out one or two things why it's essential that you do not make an appointment to go and see people unless they know everything up front. [548] First of all the major documentation we've got is the contract and there we have six companies and we have the same contract for all six. [549] Just the difference is the colour. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[550] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[551] All right. [552] If you're colour blind then it's it's a pity. [laugh] |
| Douglas (PS40K) | [laugh] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[553] [laughing] May be it's good for you [] I don't know. [554] Er no because if you have a hundred hundreds of these arriving on the er on the doorstep on Monday then you need to er know exactly which company they've got to go into. [555] But they're all the same so that if you are er with which is the medical side and an opportunity arose for some other reason for you to transfer to another group we haven't got to retrain you. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[556] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[557] Because they all do the same thing. [558] But some of the things you need to point out before you go round is that you do want a thirty five percent deposit of the first year's payment. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[559] I take it a cheque is that acceptable? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[560] Er oh yes. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[561] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[562] Yes in fact that's the only way you should take it. [563] Erm thirty five percent and you will have worked you will te you will be able to tell them that on the phone. [564] Once you've agreed the price if that's a thousand pound or thousand pound page then you want thirty five percent of the first year's payment. [565] And you have a little chart to help you do that. [566] But if you haven't got one you make it up yourself. [567] But the other thing that you have to er be erm very clear about is er on on the monetary side is if there are two signatories to the cheque, right? both of them need to have signed it. [568] But the other important is that they both have to sign the banker's order. [569] So you tell them about the thirty five percent you tell them about the banker's order that will need signing. [570] How many signatures on the banker's order fine can you make sure mister Fred Smith is with you as well? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[571] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[572] when it comes in. [573] Cos you cannot if you left this with anybody you'd never see it again. [574] You kept phoning back for it, oh I've lost it, it's gone through the system, tell you what scrub round it next time you're around I'll I'll go into the booklet. [575] Erm and also we take take the second year's payment a year later. [576] Now that's a good sales pitch because a lot of people think you've got to |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[577] Find all the money up front. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[578] Find all the money. [579] So it's in effect three stages. [580] Thirty five percent about two months later when when they get their proof okay we take the balance balance of the first year through that banker's order. [581] We take the second year's payment a year later. [582] So it's in a three stage payment in effect. [583] Now [clears throat] if you get and this of course once again will be gone through in much more detail er on the training school. [584] That will generate two out of the three things we want, that's the contract and the cheque all right? [585] The third th the other thing is of course we need to know what they want in their ad. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[586] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[587] This is the form once again they're colour coded. [588] This is the form we use to send the copy in either attached to this form or at least erm a basis of a design down here. [589] Now we don't want our sales consultants to be graphic arts experts because we have right the way back in in head office |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[590] People who know how to do it properly yes . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[591] Loads of people doing it. [592] We've got twenty year's experience thousands of ads on our on our records. [593] Most of our advertisers have have been in something or other before. [594] It's a very rare situation where they've never advertised. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[595] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[596] Okay. [597] Erm if they haven't then you just get a few ideas, got a graphics pack and you say well is this the sort of thing you want, well this is what the er the builder did last time. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[598] That's right you show them something |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[599] You can show them samples. [600] But in the main we will lift whatever they want if they've got something like that in existence if not we'll do it for them. [601] And it's at no extra cost that's all built into the price. [602] So they don't have to go to an advertising agency or a graphics designer to have it all drawn up we'll do that for them. [603] And at proof stage is when we pay your bonuses. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[604] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[605] And that's because we've got the the balance of the first year's payment. [606] And those are the three things get that right plus a compliment slip and a letter heading, because if we have to lift a logo if that if we had to lift that off er you know photocopy won't er photocopy won't do, so we we take a compliment slip or letter heading. [607] This is of course the most important document. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[608] Yeah. [609] Ju ju just |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[610] Yes any questions? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[611] Well just an observation really. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[612] Aha. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[613] If er I'm gonna be taking thirty five percent er up front |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[614] Thirty percent thirty five percent if you earn more than a hundred |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[615] No no sorry |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[616] Oh I beg your pardon the deposit cheque. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[617] Yeah yeah. [618] We've had that's that's the observation I was gonna make, that's er just so happens that that almost the amount that's gonna be turned round to me the following week that that |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[619] Aren't we clever? [laugh] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[620] Yeah very good. [laugh] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[621] Yes. [622] Oh yeah we we if if it's if you're on a thirty percent and mo which most of them would be if you're on a thirty percent commission assignment then the other five percent just goes in the pot. [623] If you're on a thirty five percent then we're covered. [624] And our belief is that we've got money to pay you that's why we don't delay in paying you. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[625] No no it's that's er |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[626] Okay? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[627] that's very reassuring . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[628] That's the point. [629] Yes. [630] Oh well that's fine er I mean Howard 's concept is absolutely brilliant erm and it ca it makes our assign our consultants very happy. [631] We had seventy at the beginning of last year, I think I may have said on the phone, a hundred a sixty five right now. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[632] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[633] And we're going for three hundred this year. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[634] Well that's another reason I'm sat here is the fact that er you know you've actually doubled it. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[635] Big growth. [636] And this is the this is a typical example this is my la my last but one assignment last but one commission form, I would pick one of the good ones wouldn't I? [637] Erm but this is a this is an average okay. [638] The the reason the total down the bottom is cos of the bonus er element. [639] But we we put down the I've crossed out position number it is size, erm er we took this from another sheet |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[640] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[641] okay? [642] Erm and we forgot to change it that's all. [643] Each consultant has it's ow er his or her her own unique number, so does the assignment, we list the position, the advertiser's name in brief, the practice we're working at and the town. [644] What I've just described is a full and complete contract. [645] There are organizations like BUPA hospitals and some others erm who have special arrangements with us where we don't need a deposit cheque and we don't need a banker's order but we do need an official order from the hospital. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[646] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[647] That replaces those two things. [648] You still get your commission. [649] You know in full. [650] Unless they've changed it but I think it is. [651] There's the erm er the value of the contract per year, there's a first year you know it's just the the co cost of the ad thirty percent that's what the commission was worth and it's nice to come out with a signature for a erm and this was a charity one so they got it slightly less, erm er and know that you've just earned yourself that much. [652] That's |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[653] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[654] why you know dealer day like that was we're we'd be quite happy about. [655] This figure here is in effect what we would should be looking for per week. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[656] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[657] If we if we home in on something like that two eight three thousand then we're going to be earn earning that much for ourselves. [658] Now I mentioned bonuses paid at proof stage. [659] As soon as an assignment has been fully proofed it goes on to a list which is published every two months to all of the sales execs and you just look out for your number, all right? and you've got your own personal records of course , if you know you've earned bonus then that's where to claim it. [660] I emphasize the word claim because that's exactly what it I I mean. [661] It's not paid automatic because some people, well first of all we don't know the precise dates when the proof is going to go out and also some people like to leave it there. [662] To pay tax, pay holidays, |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[663] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[664] buy a new car. [665] Some guy took his er bonuses after two years recently and I think he got somewhere in the region of six thousand pound. [666] Not a bad lump. [667] Safe as houses, you don't forfeit it by not claiming it it's just you you know you you as and when you need it. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[668] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[669] And all that all that, yes? all that documentation if you get it in there by Monday we pay all the money int straight into your bank that week. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[670] Can I can I on that particular one er you the value of the contract's two eight six O, so how many er brochures would er publish? [671] Based on that because it falls below the |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[672] No that's one week. [673] All right? [674] That's one week's |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[675] Oh that wasn't the complete |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[676] No no no. [677] No that's just one week assignment. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[678] Sorry. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[679] I may have put three in of those for one assignment. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[680] Mm. [681] That's a nice week. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[682] It's a nice week. [683] But that's an average week you see for a lot of people. [684] You imagine what the guy was putting down for his fourteen thousand pound booklet. ... |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[685] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[686] He had twenty nine different categories of advertising. [687] That's not bad it's an all time record. [688] And providing all that document done let's face it it is simple providing you make sure that people er the advertiser knows what you're what you're looking for before you go round there then there shouldn't shouldn't be too much problem. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[689] No that's okay admin doesn't hold any terrors for me. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[690] Well you have to do it. [691] You you see the important thing is that that contract has to be done in front of the and so does the copy, so does the cheque so they're all done on the spot. [692] There's not anything waiting for you to get home to. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[693] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[694] You can't change you can't change anything on there because the guy's signed it. [695] So once you've done that in front that's that out the way, the copy out of the way. [696] You may have to wait for one or two things but you know like like copy sometimes but I didn't used to send them s erm er contracts in unless they had everything. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[697] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[698] I was prepared to go back and copy. [699] As long as you've got that contract and that deposit cheque that's the crunch. [700] Well there you go. [701] Of interest? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[702] Yep yep. [703] It's er |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[704] Okay well I know I know you said that you were looking at one or two other things and quite honestly I would expect you to be. [705] Erm |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[706] Er you one must be reminded that er it's only three weeks today from when I was made redundant |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[707] Sure. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[708] so er and I've er been pursuing all sort of avenues. [709] Not not just self employed but obviously the the traditional route er as as well. [710] Er I mean I've written off er cold er letters to |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[711] Are you doing networking really networking you see |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[712] Well marketing marketing itself . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[713] Yeah yeah yeah. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[714] Yeah yeah. [715] Er as well as applying for er vacancies that appear in newspapers as well as er registering myself with er agencies with whom I've been in contact |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[716] Okay. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[717] er within the past. [718] Er an obviously that's generated a number of appointments and some interest at this stage. [719] Er and er well I look to to myself and my family to to make sure that er I don't just jump without fully reviewing the opportunity's that are available for me. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[720] Well I I would have said on the phone that under normal circumstances if you're salaried or have been salaried I don't talk people into this unless they're a certain age. [721] Anybody over forty I say it is a legitimate time to talk to people about self employment. [722] Now erm in the main the most the people who go and talk, if they talk genuinely to their their other half or I always say partner instead of, nowadays that's politically correct I think, erm then they so they're they're a lot of the times they're talked out of it. [723] I it's it's a pity to be talked out of out of what we've got but er it it it's a case, sorry I say talked out of it it's discussions and erm you have to say that most er ladies look at saying well now what can you promise me every week |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[724] Mm mm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[725] aspect. [726] However, I don't think you're gonna get a better commission only er package from whatever direction that this. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[727] Well I mean obviously I'm the obvious alternative is er financial planning to to |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[728] Financial services? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[729] Financial services financial planning yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[730] Let me tell you that's the graveyard at the moment. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[731] Yeah well it er it may well be . |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[732] Eighty five percent turnround in staff. [733] That's not my figures that's the financial services figures. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[734] It it's obviously er er route that I've looked at but this certainly appeals to me a damn sight more than er that. [735] I mean I know ju a simple little thing but er telephone calls will be made from the practice. [736] Yeah? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[737] Mhm yep. [738] No cost at home. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[739] Which is er it's it's a concern. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[740] You're on the move every three every three weeks you get to know another group of people. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[741] Mm. [742] You don't have to don't have to procure my own leads. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[743] No. [744] All you have to do provide is your own car. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[745] It's okay about that. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[746] You've got that. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[747] Yeah got that done that with a bit of [...] [laugh] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[748] Well as long as you've got a car I don't want to hear that. [749] [laugh] As long as you've got a car. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[750] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[751] Er you cannot |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[752] No I mean I |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[753] do |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[754] One of these guys has always had a company car. [755] Er my company car er has gone back and er well until I find out where I'm gonna end up I'm not gonna dive in and purchase another car just er for my |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[756] No. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[757] exclusive use. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[758] No we we provide a training course er Douglas so erm all right. [759] What I'd like to agree on though is at least a date |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[760] Okay. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[761] when providing you know depending on what else happens that I can say that here's a date and that individual will start at. [762] It er we are expecting him for the course on that date. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[763] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[764] If we go you know. [765] Let me just explain exactly what we do. [766] Erm the training course er as I said two days er I'll count it as a full training course. [767] Training course er involves two days out in the field, told you |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[768] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[769] that. [770] Er that's not necessarily in Scotland it could be somewhere else but we er pay you travelling and your and your hotel. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[771] Understood. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[772] All right. [773] Up to a certain limit. [774] Erm if you stay in the er Imperial Hotel every er time you go out that's [laughing] up to you [] . [775] Erm and then three days in head office okay. [776] Now you said you you had a number of other er options that you were looking at which I understand. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[777] Yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[778] And you said that by the end of next week you will you will have done those and know whether you want them and whether the companies probably yes? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[779] Basically yes. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[780] Okay. [781] So if we're looking at ... that being the week ending oh sorry week commencing thirty first of January is next week all right? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[782] Mhm. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[783] If we looked at erm the week commencing seventh of February as being the two days out that would be from the ninth er that would be the tenth and the eleventh of February. [784] Would that be er be about just over two weeks? |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[785] So the two day two days out and then the following week on the |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[786] Yes. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[787] Yes [bang] I'll go for that. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[788] Oops. [789] Right? [790] Okay so that's in effect the tenth isn't it. [791] We've just changed some of the [...] had to have some of my little notes down there. [792] Yes Thursday the tenth of February. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[793] So my two days are the tenth |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[794] That's right. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[795] and eleventh. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[796] Yeah I'll drop all this down for you so you don't need to make any notes. [797] Thursday the tenth of February ... on Wednesday the ninth, now this is all on the assumption that everything is going for us |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[798] Right. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[799] rather than what you're what other options you have. [800] I would have expected you to be doing that. [801] If I can ask you to read through this for me before you and it will tell you exactly what will happen during your training |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[802] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[803] in head office and out in the field. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[804] Okay. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[805] The course erm temporarily is being held in the Grand Hotel in while we er extend our training school because we're doing two more rooms on to the training school. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[806] There will obviously be the opportunity to catch sight of head office yeah? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[807] Oh yes. [808] In fact if you'll if you look in here you you get a it starts off with a tour of er head office and all our facilities there. [809] And now accommodation has been provisionally reserved for you for that date. [810] What I need you to do is to phone the hotel direct and confirm you're arriving. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[811] No problem. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[812] Right? [813] If you read all this it will tell you exactly. [814] There's a map and the Grand is just about there. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[815] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[816] Somewhere around there. [817] That's an er an expenses form and you know bring this information with you to the in-house course, the three days in-house erm because they'll ask you for that at the end of. [818] Okay? [819] If I can ask you to read that |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[820] Yep. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[821] at some time. [822] Now we pay we pick up the tab at the Grand Hotel for those three days in-house. [823] Now if we have to send you out fur you know er with a trainer or top person who where you need to stay away we will pay. [824] We will always pay your travel costs whichever you know whichever er er second of the training course you're on. [825] Erm we will pay bed breakfast and evening meal up to thirty pound a night and I have to say the trainers will always know of some good deals. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[826] [laughing] Right. [] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[827] [laughing] All right? [] [828] That was only if on that Thur on that Mon Thursday and Friday if you have to stay away on the Wednesday night and the Thursday night then we cover that. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[829] Okay. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[830] The rest of it's picked up by us anyway. [831] Can I ask you just to sign that to say you know that and there's a copy here for you. [832] ... Yes please print your name. [833] I wouldn't have [...] anywhere near that signature. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[834] Oh it's in there somewhere. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[835] [laughing] It's in there somewhere. [] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[836] [laugh] It's years of practice. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[837] Yeah it's amazing you know I was watching my son my son when he was about eleven or twelve practising his signature. [838] And it was it was so nicely written I I saw it the other day it was no difference. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[839] Read both words. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[840] Oh and mine mine is very readable. [841] Okay. [842] So I just put up there ... Right I've got everything there. [843] I just need your photograph er Douglas for security. [844] This is becoming quite popular this method now. [845] A lot of clients that I had when |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[846] Is it polaroid? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[847] Yes yes. [848] It's on the on the spot thing. [849] We do we do allow people |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[850] Tie straight? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[851] Tie's straight yes you you can smile [noise of camera] good. [852] Sometimes er when especially the the er older element have been so delighted that we've offered them an opportunity because everybody else has said they're too old and after all this they're getting really excited want to come and then they look so glum in the photographs |
| Douglas (PS40K) | [laugh] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[853] and I say well come on I said you can you can smile you know. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[854] Was it just me that was excited you said. [laugh] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[855] [laughing] That's right yeah. [] [856] Yeah. [857] All this will be confirmed in writing to you Douglas. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[858] Sure. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[859] Obviously I'd be delighted if you choose to come this direction but I understand of course that you have other options to look at. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[860] Yeah. [861] What one question I should have asked |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[862] Ask ask any |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[863] When er when we were on the subject of er the the labour turnover er in the insurance industry, what is the turnover in ? |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[864] Well er if you looked at the I'll give you one or two averages and and I have to say that these are figures that are a mixture of what we know from the industry and what we what we know from our own company. [865] The current financial services turnover and this has this has been published in the Financial Times and the Telegraph is somewhere in the region of between eight five and ninety percent. [866] Now that is massive because of all the new er erm it they made it very difficult for independents to survive. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[867] Oh yes with er [...] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[868] Yeah absolutely. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[869] and so forth. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[870] And also the the elongated period where they can claw back commission from you. [871] That's been a disaster for people. [872] Two to four years after you left for instance the Pru or one or two other companies they can still claw back commission if somebody cancels a life [...] |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[873] Yeah. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[874] that's part of the contract. [875] Now I certainly would never sign anything that erm required me to do that. [876] Er and then the direct sales averages somewhere around sixty percent. [877] Now we're going to be somewhere between forty and forty five percent. [878] So in that sense we're below average. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[879] It's not bad. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[880] And that's not bad. [881] When you consider |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[882] No it's not bad in in my my sort of retail career and that somewhere between thirty and thirty five |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[883] Oh well |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[884] er was was the norm |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[885] Yes. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[886] er in managerial positions. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[887] Yes yes. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[888] In assistants particularly with part time you're talking of the order of fifty to fifty five percent. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[889] Yeah we we we're we're we wouldn't have retained those out of a hundred and er what is it a hundred and ten people. [890] Er was it ninety five people er over the last year we retained. [891] You know coming from seventy to hundred a sixty five in fact when had their sales meeting last Friday it was observed that the sales force in the er which were gathered which we do every two months in the in the major suite the training suite er conference suite at head office er that was the total number of sales execs we had in January the previous year. [892] Whereas that was one group that had the same number in fact more than that we had ninety people there. [893] That's how we've grown and partic and particularly [...] . |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[894] I take it a number of er execs have been with the company for a |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[895] Yes. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[896] a similar number of years as yourself. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[897] Yes top earners. [898] Yeah top earners. |
| Douglas (PS40K) | [...] |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[899] And even even sorry even some of the mister averages or miss there are some very successful ladies. [900] In fact a lady picked up all awards er last week last Friday she cleared almost cleared the floor she was so good. [901] Okay Douglas all that will be in writing to you. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[902] All right then. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[903] Look forward to you erm making a decision to come with us but er that's in your hands. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[904] Okay thanks very much. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[905] We can certainly offer you everything you need on a self employed basis. |
| Douglas (PS40K) |
[906] It certainly does sound very attractive to [...] to me Rod. |
| Rod (PS40J) |
[907] Good. [recording ends] |