J. Sainsbury: seminar. Sample containing about 3912 words speech recorded in educational context

9 speakers recorded by respondent number C587

PS4KJ X m (Andrew, age unknown, no further information given) unspecified
PS4KK X u (No name, age unknown, no further information given) unspecified
PS4KL X u (No name, age unknown, no further information given) unspecified
PS4KM X f (No name, age unknown, no further information given) unspecified
PS4KN X f (Paula, age unknown, no further information given) unspecified
PS4KP X m (Alex, age unknown, no further information given) unspecified
PS4KR X m (Tony, age unknown, no further information given) unspecified
JSEPSUNK (respondent W0000) X u (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other
JSEPSUGP (respondent W000M) X u (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other

1 recordings

  1. Tape 119101 recorded on 1994-02-02. LocationHertfordshire: Ware () Activity: Unknown

Undivided text

Andrew (PS4KJ) [1] [...] .
(PS4KK) [2] Okay so it's more of a long term
Andrew (PS4KJ) [3] A long term solution ...
(PS4KK) [4] benefit
Andrew (PS4KJ) [...]
(PS4KK) [5] Yeah.
[6] So and our company tends to look at things more on the short term.
[7] Any other reasons for not training [...]
Andrew (PS4KJ) [8] time factor
(PS4KK) [9] Time
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [10] You may not have the support of people around you because
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [cough]
(PS4KL) [11] saying you've gotta train somebody on the list for instance, you've got to have a specialist to come in and do that so it's not something you do yourself.
[12] [...] necessarily be able to to meet your requirement.
(PS4KK) [13] So it's not always having the resources
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [14] Yeah
(PS4KK) [15] when you need it.
(PS4KL) [16] I think as well though often say one thing don't they like they spend all this money on training
(PS4KK) [17] Mm.
(PS4KL) [18] and they have all these like really good ideas [...] Head Office and area office and everything [...] like it counts for very little unless you've got the support of the [...]
(PS4KK) [19] Yeah.
(PS4KL) [20] and all too often erm people are taking off departments to do training but then it's the same old thing of well it's the needs of the business
(PS4KK) [21] Mm.
(PS4KL) [22] and you've got to get back down on the shop do it.
(PS4KK) [23] Mm.
(PS4KL) [24] So, you know, there's no point in having all these systems set up if you haven't got the support at the branch level for it.
(PS4KK) [25] No.
[26] No I agree totally.
[27] Erm [laugh] .
[28] There is [...] coming out with the same old thing again.
[29] One thing about leadership through team work is that it puts a much greater emphasis on training for the purposes of delegation and the word that they use to describe that piece is empowerment.
(PS4KL) [30] It's just that you see so much of it, not just like staff like training managers and everything, they're told to stick up and stick up for their training and at the end of the day it's oh well, it's the needs of the business and all that but aga the company [...] this this
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [31] [cough] .
(PS4KL) [32] x amount of money to be a trainee
(PS4KK) [33] Mm.
(PS4KL) [34] and then they can expect them at the end of like x amount of time to be able to take over a department, then when it falls apart they're gonna be the one to take it.
(PS4KK) [35] So it comes back to the short erm thing again
(PS4KL) [36] Yeah
(PS4KK) [37] and the short term goal.
[38] I think with with the trainee managers being particular, a new system of coming in whereby it will be it will be more difficult to abuse trainee managers.
(PS4KL) [39] But how?
(PS4KK) [40] Because they're going to have to, at the end of their period of whether it's a year or eighteen months, they will hopefully be qualified for a national vocational qualification level three and in order to gain that they have to be assessed constantly throughout their eighteen months, there's no kind of
(PS4KL) [41] That's still not gonna, that's still not gonna take us away from, you know, [...] sorry there's nobody on produce today, you're gonna sorry training is out of the window today [...] and maybe, maybe the department manager on produce, I dunno goes sick or something and he has to take over there for two or three weeks and it's well don't worry you know you'll get back on to the training
(PS4KK) [42] Yes.
(PS4KL) [43] when Steve comes back.
[44] I dunno maybe I'm just cynical.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
(PS4KM) [45] [...] national vocation I I really think that it's worse because they've not [...] , whereas when I was a trainee you had your six weeks on produce, your six weeks on whatever [...] in the branch of that now and they didn't have that, they haven't got any training plan, so they've got nothing to say well [...] career, branch branch [...] need here and I need to be here and I need to be here.
[46] And they're just left to get on to these fifteen projects whenever.
(PS4KK) [47] They should have been supplied with the programme by the area office.
(PS4KL) [48] Well they've, they've told me they've got to go [...] a, a tutor it's another branch manager at a different branch.
(PS4KK) [49] They've got to what?
(PS4KM) [50] have a tutor and they've [...]
(PS4KK) [...]
(PS4KL) [51] he works out the [...] .
(PS4KK) [52] [...] .
[53] Wh wi what should be happening is that each each trainee manager within each branch has an assessor within the branch who will be one of the deputy managers, they also have a mentor within the branch.
[54] Erm and eventually all the depart all of the training [...] assessors.
[55] So [...] be held to go to another branch [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [56] [...] .
(PS4KK) [57] They shouldn't be.
[58] I think the difficulty at the moment, because with that [...] it's a trial, only a certain amount of people have been trained in those roles and [...] trainees are moved around a lot
(PS4KL) [59] [...] .
(PS4KK) [60] Pardon?
(PS4KL) [61] [...] reception [...] .
(PS4KK) [62] At the end of the day that trainee will not get his N V Q and what's going to happen is that branch managers [...] be penalized if that happens.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [63] will they be penalized
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
(PS4KL) [64] [...] yeah that's true but how, how are they gonna be penalised.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [65] in their appraisals
(PS4KK) [66] Because it's a national thing I mean it's something the company is hoping to go forward with the time it's a government initiative, if we are offering trainee managers when they join us an, an N V Q and they don't get it ... at the end of their training.
[67] One we're gonna have problems retaining staff and two we're not meeting erm [...]
Andrew (PS4KJ) [68] I mean can they prosecute them?
(PS4KK) [69] No you won't I mean there won't be criminal prosecution or anything like that.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [laugh]
(PS4KL) [70] but erm, you know, they'll get a lot of trouble and there's a register, there's a natural register of assessors and if an assessor is not seen to be doing his job he'll get struck off basically and that will cause major problems then
Andrew (PS4KJ) [71] So w what are they going to do branch managers just slap his wrists in his appraisal and then [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [72] More or less
(PS4KL) [73] Well as i said earlier today
Andrew (PS4KJ) [74] [...] .
(PS4KK) [75] Appraisals are being changed are being rewritten basically so that yourself and branch managers are much more accountable for training development [...]
Andrew (PS4KJ) [76] Yeah but what's going to happen to the branch manager?
[77] Nothing
Paula (PS4KN) [78] What sanctions are gonna be taken?
Andrew (PS4KJ) [79] Exactly I mean what are they gonna do
(PS4KK) [80] Well
Andrew (PS4KJ) [81] for a year or something.
(PS4KK) [82] I would have thought the threat that you're not going to get on because you've had a crap appraisal would be fairly significant ... and I think that most branch managers
(PS4KL) [83] [...] is is one trainee manager important enough to affect his whole appraisal?
(PS4KK) [84] No it's not it's not [...]
(PS4KL) [...]
(PS4KK) [85] it's not going to be the trainee manager, it's not gonna just be the trainee, it's going to be everybody all of the management team within the branch.
[86] [...] becomes a m much major, more major part of his appraisal then, I mean branch managers tend to be fairly ambitious people, they're not going to want to be let down on that ... I don't think.
[87] Anyway that's something to speculate on.
[88] Any other reasons for not showing ... do you think?
(PS4KM) [89] Some people don't train other people to do their jobs because they want to keep their jobs for themselves [...] otherwise they start to lose their control.
(PS4KL) [90] Alright so fear of loss of control.
(PS4KK) [91] Do you think that's justified
Paula (PS4KN) [92] No [...] bad reason [...] not training.
(PS4KL) [93] Yes.
(PS4KK) [94] So I think you know the more you train people, that really gives you greater power doesn't it?
[95] ... Also what about the fear that somebody's gonna not gonna do it as well as you?
[96] Anybody come across that?
[97] Yeah Andrew.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [98] Yes
(PS4KL) [99] Sometimes give it away and say right I'll teach you how to do this, when they keep coming back and saying what wh [...] you're running out of time and you think give it you can [...] it's quite common.
(PS4KK) [100] It goes back to the short term thing, you fear that they don't do it as well. ...
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [101] [cough] .
(PS4KK) [102] I remember when I was a trainee manager erm I was never allowed to do the [...] ever.
[103] I practically never looked at the [...] .
[104] Basically because the produce manager who was training me was so scared of me making a cock up, he never never left my side when I was [...] .
(PS4KL) [105] I've got a trainee manager [...] at the moment and I've been trying to [...] he's just making such a balls up [laugh] it's easier not to.
[106] That's how you feel anyway.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [107] [...] .
(PS4KK) [108] Yeah. [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [109] But nobod nobody's ever gonna w learn anything are they?
(PS4KK) [110] [...] months. [laugh] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [111] [...] this [...] to a [...] and you're totally in charge of it you won't really get to grips and get [...] .
[112] I can see your point.
Alex (PS4KP) [113] [...] lovely [...] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [114] I see you [...] then
(PS4KL) [115] Yeah,
Andrew (PS4KJ) [116] [...] at the end
(PS4KK) [117] Yeah but but at the end of the day how's that person gonna learn.
[118] I mean [...] .
(PS4KL) [119] [...] sitting there and watching me
(PS4KK) [120] Yeah I mean sitting there together possibly
(PS4KL) [121] Yeah.
(PS4KK) [122] for a greater length of time
Andrew (PS4KJ) [123] and having a go [...] services [...] .
(PS4KK) [124] Just say no you're doing that I'm doing it.
Alex (PS4KP) [125] [...] most times [...] keep interfering all the time
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [126] [cough] .
(PS4KL) [127] Mm.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [128] Are [...] a bit sort of.
[129] Right now [...] we [...] a lot more problem.
(PS4KL) [130] Mm.
[131] It's a risk basically
Andrew (PS4KJ) [132] Yeah.
(PS4KL) [133] Training people is a risk.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
Andrew (PS4KJ) [134] [...] at the end of the day.
(PS4KL) [135] Yeah.
Paula (PS4KN) [136] When I was a trainee my deputy fresh foods went [...] it with me, and like he'd sit there and he'd say right this is how you do it at first and then he'd let me do some and well I'd do them and he'd say why have you done that and I'd tell him and then he'd let me do it
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [137] Mm.
Paula (PS4KN) [138] and check it afterwards.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [139] Mm.
Paula (PS4KN) [140] and that worked really well.
(PS4KK) [141] So that's one way you think that people learnt,how how else do you think people benefit from learning?
Paula (PS4KN) [142] Well [...] phrase that one
Andrew (PS4KJ) [143] by mistakes
(PS4KK) [144] How do how do people learn?
Andrew (PS4KJ) [145] By their mistakes
(PS4KK) [146] by making mistakes by somebody sitting down and explaining things to them
(PS4KL) [147] showing you physically how to do it to.
(PS4KK) [148] [...] sitting with that's what they call it, isn't it? [...] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [149] Then showing them the results of what they've actually done.
(PS4KK) [150] Mm yeah Okay.
[151] So it's a very much a two way communication spending time with them.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [152] [cough] .
(PS4KK) [153] That explanation comes into it a great deal really.
[154] Erm can I have a volunteer please.
[155] Not gonna set fire to you.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [156] [...] .
(PS4KK) [157] Okay.
[158] Right Alex I have something I needed to tell you.
[159] I am in fact not from retail training.
[160] I am an alien from the planet Zog Okay
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [161] [laugh] .
(PS4KK) [162] and I need you to tell me how to light a match.
[163] I'm an alien remember.
Alex (PS4KP) [164] Can you understand it?
[165] Can you understand my language?
(PS4KK) [166] I speak plain English.
Alex (PS4KP) [167] Right, take that box ... put in flat in your hand ...
(PS4KK) [168] You are not allowed to touch me or the box.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [169] [laugh] .
Alex (PS4KP) [170] [...] quite easy [...] .
[171] Take your two fingers like that, ... no the other hand
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [172] [laugh] .
Alex (PS4KP) [173] [...] box, difficult
(PS4KK) [174] Carry on.
Alex (PS4KP) [175] pick it up
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [176] [laugh] .
Alex (PS4KP) [177] with your hand.
[178] Put it in the palm of your hand.
[179] ... Two fingers this hand, gently ...
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [180] Hold the box.
Alex (PS4KP) [181] Hold the box.
[182] ... Step in the box
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [183] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [184] [laugh] .
Alex (PS4KP) [185] S strike it ... on the edge.
[186] On the edge, on the top.
[187] Do the other end [...] the match.
[188] Turn the match round ... right, do it again.
[189] Thank you.
[190] Again ... again ...
(PS4KK) [191] Right, thank you very much .
[192] Sorry for giving you a hard time there.
[193] Okay what did we learn from that?
Alex (PS4KP) [194] I can speak zog.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [195] [laugh] .
(PS4KK) [196] Yeah apart from the fact that th about that.
[197] What did we learn from that?
(PS4KL) [198] [...] .
(PS4KK) [199] Yeah.
[200] What did Alex assume with me there?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...] [...]
Andrew (PS4KJ) [201] That you understood.
[202] That you understood
(PS4KK) [203] Yeah, that I understood
Andrew (PS4KJ) [204] What I wanted you to do straight away.
[205] The actions
(PS4KK) [206] So we talked about the edge.
[207] We talked about pick it up.
[208] You assumed I would know to pick it up to like that and I grabbed it like that.
[209] Okay has anybody ever assumed things with people that they've been training?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [210] [...] .
(PS4KK) [211] What have you assumed wrongly?
Andrew (PS4KJ) [212] That they would pick up things as quickly or as quick as you have picked them up.
(PS4KK) [213] Yeah.
Paula (PS4KN) [214] That they learn like you do.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [215] That they would, they would clone you, so if you think to er you were trained on something, you think well we should know that because I knew that.
[216] I mean that's probably a big mistake we all make.
(PS4KK) [217] Right, so interpretate in different ways don't they?
Andrew (PS4KJ) [218] Yeah.
(PS4KK) [219] People have got different levels, different speeds if you like.
[220] What else?
Paula (PS4KN) [221] The jargon when somebody's new you presume they know the word plinth [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
(PS4KK) [222] Yeah.
[223] Another example of that, when a colleague of mine joined as a Trainee Manager, she was being shown round the branch by the Section [...] and as they went, they were walking along she said oh this is the [...] room and Susie thought, what's it, a buff [...] and she said that's [...] racking and Susie said what's the [...] overs racking.
[224] She said it's where we keep the B line overs.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [225] [laugh] .
(PS4KK) [226] Which didn't help very much.
[227] I mean did anybody [...] similar experiences
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [228] yeah
Andrew (PS4KJ) [229] When you join the company there's so many J S words, I mean you just, you just, I mean half of it goes over your head, I mean it's get that go get that out of the buffer room.
[230] [...] where the hell is that?
(PS4KK) [231] Yeah.
[232] I think that's something we've got to be careful of.
[233] So it's jargon, it's assuming people will pick things up as quickly as we have and it's not recognising that people have different interpretations [...] .
[234] I'm going ask you to do an exercise now and split you into groups of three.
[235] ... If you just sit, stay where you are [...] thank you.
[236] [...] table, [...] you three.
[237] One of you in each group, who, put your hand up if you're good at making a paper aeroplane.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [238] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [239] [...] .
(PS4KK) [240] One person in each group.
[241] One person in each group.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [242] [...] .
(PS4KK) [243] Right your [...] training.
[244] You're the trainers.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [245] [...] .
(PS4KK) [246] We also need one person in each group who's crap at making paper aeroplanes.
Alex (PS4KP) [247] [...] .
(PS4KK) [248] Alright.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [249] [laugh] .
(PS4KK) [250] [...] the other person is going to be the observer.
[251] Right.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [252] [...] .
(PS4KK) [253] Now.
[254] You've got fifteen minutes in which the trainer has got to teach the person who's [...] making paper aeroplanes how to make them, alright, and tell them [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [255] [...] .
(PS4KK) [256] I want the observer to note the training methods used what basically went on and at the end of the day I will see the person who's been in training make a paper aeroplane and I will judge these on two criterias
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [257] [...] .
(PS4KK) [258] Firstly, on how far it flies and secondly on its aesthetic value.
Alex (PS4KP) [259] First can I just ask, as, as somebody who's building a paper aeroplane [...] you got [...] assumption whatsoever, so am I supposed to say I don't know the first thing about making a paper aeroplane, you [...] you told me [...] .
(PS4KK) [260] That's something you have to explore for yourself.
Alex (PS4KP) [261] Right, [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [262] [...] .
(PS4KK) [263] So if you just use one sheet of A four does [...] .
[264] You can go out on the landing if you want to
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [265] [...] .
(PS4KK) [266] Training method you could use is er [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [267] [...] .
(PS4KK) [268] Yeah you can go out in the hall or go in the syndicate room
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [269] [...] .
(PS4KK) [270] Fold it down [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [271] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [272] Yes.
(PS4KK) [273] Do the same thing again .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [274] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [275] Like that.
(PS4KK) [276] Yes .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [277] [laugh] .
(PS4KK) [278] Yeah.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [279] [...] .
(PS4KK) [280] Okay right
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [281] [...] .
(PS4KK) [282] [...] like that yeah.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [283] [...] .
(PS4KK) [284] Well actually we're gonna [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [285] [...] . [...]
(PS4KK) [286] That's not very nice is it?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [287] [...] . [...]
(PS4KK) [288] [...] do it on my own
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...] [...]
(PS4KL) [289] I've gotta try [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...] [...]
(PS4KL) [290] [...] excellent
Andrew (PS4KJ) [291] beautiful.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [292] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [293] [cough] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [294] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [295] [...] take it away .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [296] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [297] [...] [laugh] [...] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [298] [...] Are you waiting for this .
(PS4KL) [299] No we've got, you've got until twenty five past.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [300] [...] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [301] I think we're all ready
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [302] [...] .
(PS4KK) [303] If you're all ready go and get the other group.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [304] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [305] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [306] [...] .
(PS4KL) [307] Oh T Tony [...] down there.
Tony (PS4KR) [308] [...] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [309] Spitfires ...
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [310] [...] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [311] [...] .
(PS4KL) [312] Yeah I know.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [313] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [314] [...] .
(PS4KK) [315] Would have gone first
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
(PS4KK) [316] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [317] [...] .
(PS4KK) [318] Group one [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...] [...]
(PS4KL) [319] Have we got to make one in front of you?
(PS4KK) [320] No, no, you don't have to make one, using your aeroplane your prototype erm would you like to come and have a test flight.
[321] Okay [...] who's the trainee?
Andrew (PS4KJ) [322] You are.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [323] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [324] [...] .
(PS4KK) [325] Right Okay.
[326] Thank you.
[327] Group number two [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [328] [...] . [...]
(PS4KK) [329] Erm Okay erm [...] thank you
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [330] [...] .
(PS4KL) [331] This is a work of art this
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...] [...]
(PS4KL) [332] [laugh] .
(PS4KK) [333] Thank you, next one
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [334] [...] .
(PS4KL) [335] Wally [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [336] [...] .
(PS4KK) [337] Okay well the one that went the furthest was
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
Andrew (PS4KJ) [338] that one went further
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [339] [...] .
(PS4KK) [340] Okay well I think in aesthetic terms ... they're both awful .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [341] [...] .
(PS4KL) [342] This one's a little bit of ornamentation.
(PS4KK) [343] You've cracked it [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [344] [...] .
(PS4KK) [345] I think it is going to have to be a draw
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
(PS4KK) [346] attractive but it didn't fly very far ... probably the aim of the game.
Alex (PS4KP) [347] The ones that flew are all designed with a serial number [...] .
(PS4KL) [348] the same I do believe
Alex (PS4KP) [349] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [350] Their design's the same, their design's the same.
(PS4KK) [351] Just to finish then, trainers, who was the trainer from this group?
(PS4KL) [352] He was.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [353] I was the trainee, you were the trainer, weren't you.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [354] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [355] No I was trainee you you were teaching.
(PS4KK) [356] You were teaching.
[357] Who was teaching who.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [358] [...] .
(PS4KK) [359] Alex you were [...] .
[360] The observers, what happened, tell me, what what happened [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [361] The first thing [...] explained [...] exactly what the process was going to be [...]
(PS4KK) [362] Right.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [363] Then he actually made a paper aeroplane so that she had an example in front of her that she can look at to see what she is aiming for.
(PS4KK) [364] Mm mm.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [365] Erm and then what he did was, he they went through it together and he showed her what to do and she followed him and and as she did things right he praised her and gave her feedback and said she'd done it correctly and then then when there were things didn't understand she questioned him and then he clarified her.
(PS4KK) [366] Mm.
[367] It worked well.
[368] Okay thank you.
[369] What about the rest?
[370] Next next observer.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [371] made an aeroplane very quickly first which I think was his big mistake because he then tried to explain to how to make it and kept wanting to touch her aeroplane
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [372] and you've basically I think the mistake you made basically was
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [373] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [374] He he didn't make one at the same time as, you know, to actually show the folds and that
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [375] [...] .
(PS4KK) [376] [...] to get both [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [377] [...] exactly half way through to changing design, so it was nothing like [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [378] [...] .
(PS4KK) [379] Okay.
[380] What about the next erm.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [381] [...] to say [...] .
[382] They made one together
(PS4KK) [383] Yeah.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [384] and followed all the instructions, and, she wasn't sure she asked and then make one on her own and then [...] .
(PS4KK) [385] Right thank you.
Andrew (PS4KJ) [386] [...] .
(PS4KK) [387] Next [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [388] We made one together, one each in step by step so ... we showed 'em what to do and then if you weren't sure you asked or if he wasn't doing it right so they did it together [...] technical erm situation [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [389] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [390] [laughing] [...] bit complicated [...] []
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [391] [laugh] .
(PS4KK) [392] How about the next group, next observer
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [393] Yeah, they did it together erm step by step erm it was Okay she questioned if she didn't know what we were saying erm [...] wasn't that specific [...] but then she made one herself following his instructions.
(PS4KK) [394] Okay thank you and what about the last group.
Tony (PS4KR) [395] Yeah that was good, similar sort of thing really, showing [...] sort of thing by example.
(PS4KK) [396] Mm.
Tony (PS4KR) [397] Made one at the same time together.
(PS4KK) [398] Mm mm.
Tony (PS4KR) [399] Erm erm they just went through it like that and then he gave her instructions on how to fly it as well, how to throw it
(PS4KK) [400] Right.
Tony (PS4KR) [401] and erm practice at actually making it [...] .
(PS4KK) [402] Okay so there's lots of showing somebody, actually demonstrating how something is made then doing it together step by step and as you say follow up with going through the whole stage not just making the plane but actually demonstrating how it works.
[403] Alright, I mean you said there that people tended to ask questions if they didn't understand.
[404] Did any of you actually say at the beginning, if you have any questions while I'm going along, please ask?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [405] no
(PS4KK) [406] mean you're all quite an observant bunch here
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [407] Yes.
(PS4KK) [408] So you all took the initiative to ask questions as you go along without necessarily being invited to.
[409] Some people won't do that.
[410] Some people would feel silly if they're asking questions
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [411] [...] .
(PS4KK) [412] [...] did that [...] right I think that that's a good point to remember when you're training somebody.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [cough]
(PS4KK) [413] What are the general points from that. [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [414] Praise.
(PS4KK) [415] Praise?
[416] Did did praise you?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [417] [...] he did when I wasn't acting thick.
(PS4KK) [418] Right.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [419] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [420] [...] .
(PS4KK) [421] So he was making you feel as if you were getting somewhere
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [422] [...] [...] [laugh] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [423] [...] .
(PS4KK) [424] Finally, then
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [425] [...] .
(PS4KK) [426] if I can just have your attention for a moment
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
(PS4KK) [427] There are various steps when you're training somebody they go through a number of steps.
[428] The first one is what we call unconscious incompetence.
[429] In that when somebody has just joined into the store for instance, joins the company, they don't know what they don't know.
[430] Okay so that's unconscious incompetence.
[431] The next stage is when they get to conscious incompetence.
[432] Okay so they, they know what's expected of them but they would without having had the practice or the experience
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [cough]
(PS4KK) [433] are still at an incompetent stage, they still are unable to carry out the job.
[434] ... Thirdly, people reach a stage of what we conscious competence in that they're very aware of what they're doing and they're doing it correctly but they're still at that stage where they're fairly new and they're very conscious of what they're doing.
[435] Lastly, which is something we all reach eventually, hopefully, is what we call unconscious competence, when you know how to do something so well that you do it un without thinking, it's like driving.
[436] Teaching somebody to drive when you've driven yourself for a number of years is really hard.
[437] Thinking about the various stages you go through and then once you've reached the level of department managers at, on a lot of issues you tend to be at this stage but it's important to remember that a number of your staff may be down here somewhere.
[438] ... What I'd like you to do just for the last ten minutes is to think of a member of staff you have who has a training need and think about how you will go about training them and the methods that you will use.
[439] Okay to try and improve their performance.
[440] So if you could just [...] you've got.
[441] If you could just jot down a few ideas [...] that.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [442] Can I use this trainee manager?
(PS4KK) [443] Yes, yes [...] Erm one once you've done that if you could give in [...] diaries for the day and then your time is your own.
[444] There are handouts at the back the ones on that side are the ones from this afternoon there are some if you want a result of the [...] really really good for train good handouts there so I would recommend you have a look.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [445] [...] .
(PS4KK) [446] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [447] So there's the [...]
(PS4KK) [448] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [449] [...] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [450] [...] because [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [451] [laugh] .
Andrew (PS4KJ) [452] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [453] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [454] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [455] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [456] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [457] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [458] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [459] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [460] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [461] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [462] [...] .
(PS4KK) [463] [...] .
[464] If you have any [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [465] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [466] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [467] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [468] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [469] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [470] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [471] [...] .
(PS4KK) [472] Who were the winning group by the way?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [473] [...] .
(PS4KK) [474] Who won, which group was the winning group .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [475] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [476] [...] .
(PS4KK) [477] Which group won the aeroplane?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [478] [...] .
(PS4KK) [479] Oh right, who was the two groups then?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
(PS4KK) [480] You, was it you?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [481] [...] .
(PS4KK) [482] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [483] It's a bit out of order [...]
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [484] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [485] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [486] So where's the black ones?.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [487] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [488] [...] .
(PS4KK) [489] [...] have we got all of that one?
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [490] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [491] [...] paint brush pot.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [492] [cough] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [493] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [494] [laugh] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [495] [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [496] I'll see you tomorrow morning, got to do a shift.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [497] Yeah.
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [498] [...] .
(PS4KK) [499] Right I'll [...] the erm [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSEPSUNK) [500] [...] .