Durham University: politics lecture. Sample containing about 6177 words speech recorded in educational context

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  1. Tape 120901 recorded on unknown date. LocationDurham: Durham ( Lecture Theatre ) Activity: lecture

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(JSLPSUNK) [1] going to be lecturing you erm about foreign policy and foreign policy making.
[2] Erm there'll be seven lectures on this subject and that's a fair number of course but it's not enough to cover the full range of things that I'd want normally to talk to you about ... and so what I'm going to do is to aim to introduce you to some of the central concepts of foreign policy, of ways of analysing it, of the models that are used, the ideas erm er surrounding foreign policy and also to illustrate these with examples.
[3] Now to do that effectively I think it's essential that I get you to participate in what's happening so from time to time I'm going to ask you to answer questions, sometimes by writing them down, sometimes by shows of hands erm sometimes by er reacting back erm to the questions that I ask.
[4] So I won't start that immediately but during the lecture we'll start to build that up.
[5] The other thing I ask of you is to do some initial reading around the lectures.
[6] The book I've chosen is this one, Understanding Foreign Policy by Michael Clarke and Brian White who are editors, so if you could note that book down please, Understanding Foreign Policy, it is on your list, Understanding Foreign Policy by Michael Clarke and Brian White.
[7] They are the editors, they're not the sole authors so each chapter has a different author erm and like all books some are stronger than others ... but what I would like you to do for the next, by the time we meet next time, that's on Monday the next lecture, please have read chapters one and two of that book.
[8] It is available of course in the library but also you can buy copies, it's a, I think it's a reasonable price, in the S P C K bookshop.
[9] ... Well I'm going to start today by a number of questions, general questions about foreign policy.
[10] ... Can you read that?
(JSLPSUGP) [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [11] I'll dim er if I can find a dimmer I'll dim the ... You can read it now can't you?
[12] ... Well the first question is, is foreign policy different from other areas of policy making?
[13] ... Well you ca er as with most academic questions, you can see it both ways.
[14] The answer is partly yes and partly no.
[15] Now let's try the no part first.
[16] It includes bureaucratic processes, there are ministries of foreign affairs, there is the foreigner and commonwealth office in Britain, there is interaction between officials in policy making in building it up together so there is a bureaucratic process involved in erm foreign policy.
[17] Before the meeting, you know at the moment John Major is in Moscow, erm before that meeting there'll have been much work done by the officials on briefing papers, on trying to identify the potential issues that are going to come up in the meeting, there'll have been a lot of background work that would be similar er to patterns of relationships between various departments erm in any process of decision making.
[18] Equally the attitudes and decisions of foreign policy will be influenced by the ideology of the people who make the policy and also their perception of the world.
[19] Let me carry on with this same erm position of John Major erm meeting the Russian president.
[20] Both of course come from very different cultures and very different backgrounds.
[21] They are also are in different political situations.
[22] I mean there was, there was a wonderful Times cartoon, I don't know if you saw it, of Yeltsin showing all the troubles he, he couldn't control his government, there were economic problems, people were being nasty to him apparently as he was saying how do we manage [...] and it turns out of course at the end, the final kick line is he's talking about John Major's situation.
[23] Erm so there are some similarities but plainly there are clear differences between them and that influences, influences very much erm what they're trying to achieve.
[24] A particular case of course is in relation to Bosnia Hercegovina, erm Russia has traditionally been close to the Serbs erm and therefore is worried, not only about the situation within erm the old Yugoslavia itself, Bosnia Hercegovina, but also about the reaction erm within Russia if it is seen to take too anti a Serb line erm in the, in the crisis that's being faced there.
[25] So there are answers that no it's not that different in some ways from other fore er from other policy making but there is another side of foreign policy in which you say yes, there are clear differences.
[26] One of the differences is that foreign policy is made in an international environment in which the government cannot claim sovereignty.
[27] Sovereignty is the, we'll turn to it later, we'll look at sovereignty again, but linked to sovereignty is the idea that you can make legislation, you can pass laws and then you can say these laws are going to be carried out, implemented by courts followed by sanctions ... though very little law is related to foreign policy ... because the British government or the Russian government or the United States government can't make laws which apply worldwide or outside its own area of claimed sovereignty ... so there is a difference of the environment in which foreign policy takes place.
[28] Secondly ... there tends to be a coming together within the erm the parties of any one country in its foreign policy attitudes.
[29] There's a saying which isn't entirely true that the politics stops at the waters' edge.
[30] What that means is that when you're facing up to foreign situations, you tend to pull together ... you tend not to divide ... you tend not to emphasise the differences between you.
[31] Now that doesn't frankly entirely work but on the whole there is a tendency to push differences less strongly in foreign affairs than in domestic affairs.
[32] Now having said the answer is both yes and no, of course part of the reason for the yes and the no is there is a very large overlap between domestic policy and foreign policy.
[33] Erm the two interact constantly and you can see foreign policy in some ways as a bridge between what goes on within the frame, the domestic framework of a country and what goes on in the international environment which surrounds it.
[34] Now let me try a first question on you.
[35] Why did President Clinton agree for erm ... Terry Adams?
[36] What's his first name, the erm ... ?
(JSLPSUNK) [37] Jeremy.
(JSLPSUNK) [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [38] Jerem Jeremy is it?
(JSLPSUGP) [39] Gerry.
(JSLPSUNK) [40] Gerry Adams, that's right I've go Gerry Adams, why did Professor Clinton agree for Gerry Adams to visit erm the United States?
[41] Anybody call out ... yes, it's a question I'm asking you.
[42] Anybody have a go at it.
[43] Yes please.
(JSLPSUNK) [44] [...] platform to do that.
(JSLPSUNK) [45] He thought he was, sorry?
(JSLPSUNK) [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [cough]
(JSLPSUNK) [46] take the opportunity of his trip to America to renounce violence [...] Downing Street peace plan.
(JSLPSUNK) [47] Yes that's absolutely right about Gerry Adams.
[48] I'm trying to think of President Clinton, why did President Clinton agree to give him a visa?
[49] Yes?
(JSLPSUNK) [50] Was it to keep the Irish population happy?
(JSLPSUNK) [51] Which Irish population?
(JSLPSUNK) [52] In America.
(JSLPSUNK) [53] In America.
[54] The I would think that's one of the factors, I er it's a very good point that, to keep the Irish population of the United States happy.
[55] But I, I don't think it was the total picture but it was one of the reasons I think that persuaded President Clinton to invite Gerry Adams, or to lift the visa for forty eight hours.
[56] Now there's a very good example of the way in which a domestic concern has an impact in terms of international events ... because obviously it put a strain on Anglo-U S relations.
[57] I mean it may have pleased the Irish government a bit but it's got implications both domestically and internationally.
[58] I also think he probably thought that it might help to ease the tension erm in Northern Ireland, whether it did or not I leave as an open debate and I don't think there was just a single motive for President Clinton's decision, but the one I was trying to demonstrate which was hit straight away was there was a domestic element, a des domestic political element in the decision.
[59] And of course another very clear example of the overlap between domestic concerns and international concerns is Maastricht and the great debate that's gone on in Britain about whether or not we should have agreed to the Maastricht Treaty.
[60] Let me try erm a straw poll on you and I'm going to ask those of you, I'll give you a moment or two, who would've signed up the Maastricht Treaty and who would not have signed up the Maastricht Treaty if you'd've had a free vote?
[61] You're er for the moment you're not committed to a party, you've just got to take an individual decision and I know Maastricht is very complicated but there's a lot of gut feeling as well as precise knowledge about these things, so I want to take a vote.
[62] Who would have signed the Maastricht Treaty?
[63] ... Who would not have signed the Maastricht Treaty?
[64] ... Well I'd say it was about sixty five thirty five for the Maastricht Treaty.
[65] What I'll do is I'll try another straw poll at the end of the seven lectures [laughing] and see how we [] feel then to see if we've erm we've shifted, so I think there it was about, I'm guessing, sixty five thirty five in favour of Maastricht.
[66] But another clear example of the way in which erm domestic and in erm foreign policy overlaps is of course in economic affairs.
[67] Erm for example if you hear,an and defence matters as well, if we hear for example that Saudi Arabia has decided to buy a series of British tanks, that is a foreign policy decision whether or not to allow those tanks erm to be sold to Saudi Arabia and we know from the Iraq arms business the way in which erm it is a de a conscious decision of government whether or not to do these things.
[68] But how is it reported in north eastern papers?
[69] Is it reported as saying Britain grows closer to Saudi Arabia?
[70] Not at all, the way it's reported in north eastern newspapers is more jobs for Vickers Armstrong erm in Newcastle ... because there the manufacture of tanks is very important indeed to the local prospects of the economy.
[71] So there are many examples in fact erm ... of the way in which economic affairs overlaps both domestic and foreign policy.
[72] Now let's turn to the next question.
[73] ... Is foreign policy making similar for all governments?
[74] Because if we can't generalize then I, perhaps I should be talking about British foreign policy or Iranian foreign policy or South African foreign policy ... are there generalizations we can make and say well it is similar for all governments?
[75] ... You won't be surprised to hear it's another yes, no answer.
[76] Yes there are similarities in the sense that all are operating in the international environment I mentioned before.
[77] You've no choice, you're part of the international environment and you operate in that and you can't control, as I've said before, er even if you're as powerful as the United States, you can't control that environment and you don't claim to control that environment in the same way that you claim to control your domestic environment.
[78] ... Also it is a common feature of course that you need to order the resources, that you have the resource in terms of people or the economy or the armed forces, you need to order those resources to try to achieve your ends erm and we'll look at that later, the aims that you're going for in foreign policy ... so they're common, that you're in the same environment, that you've got to m er whatever the resources you have you have to try to organize them to achieve your ends and so on.
[79] And another common feature is that each separate country, each state, claims sovereignty ... that is it claims a legal equality erm within the international order.
[80] Who would like to have a go at describing for us the General Assembly of the United Nations?
[81] What is the General Assembly of the United Nations?
[82] ... A blank so far?
[83] Come on, have a go even if it's wrong, you'll remember if you make a mistake later.
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [84] [laughing] Would you like to have a go [] ? ...
(JSLPSUNK) [85] Er is it each country has one [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [86] That's right, that's very good.
[87] It's a
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh] [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [88] [shouting] No ... no it's, it's very good [] he actually had a go [laughing] and the rest of you [] were sitting there dumbfounded by the question.
[89] The General Assembly is the er assembly of the unit the part of the United Nations in which each state has a representative ... whether you're Swaziland or whether you're Russia, whether you're Ukraine or whether you're Singapore, you have a representative in the General Assembly of the United Nations.
[90] What's the other very well known institution of the United Nations?
(JSLPSUNK) [91] Security Council.
(JSLPSUNK) [92] Security Council, who s I can't quite focus who ... very good, Security Council.
[93] Can you tell us about the s a bit about the Security Council?
(JSLPSUNK) [94] Yes it's erm made up of a small proportion of the countries in the General, General Assembly, about five countries and [...] seats on it erm basically the allies from the second world war erm and the other seats are changed around periodically between the nation, other nations.
(JSLPSUNK) [95] Excellent.
[96] Excellent.
[97] The two major organs of the United Nations are a general assembly in which everybody sits and a security council, yes he's looking very pleased with himself [laugh]
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [98] erm in which you have a core of five permanent members and they are the victors of the second world war erm and then others who sit in in rotation to make up the total assembly but I think it's about eighteen members altogether?
[99] Maybe a bit less than that, I should know but I, I don't know the precise number, but a much smaller assem and frankly with much more effective power in the international community.
[100] And when you come to things like whether or not the U N is going to th er U N actions in Bosnia at the moment, it's the Security Council erm which is trying to take the decisions with the Secretary General of course in charge.
[101] So there are similarities between erm all governments ... but plainly, on the other side of the coin, there are differences.
[102] Think for yourself, is foreign policy making in Saddam Hussein's Iraq the same as that in Chancellor Kohl's Germany?
[103] I mean the answer is plainly there are very clear differences.
[104] The domestic situation in which things take place, they are really very different ... and you can start to draw up categories, of course, of countries, small big maybe, small medium big ... democratic non-democratic, er military dictatorships civilian government ... erm and so on , so there are whole series of categories of governments that you can draw up and you can say well these do make a difference in the way erm foreign policy is created.
[105] And of course, although they have a legal sovereignty as I've mentioned, and they each have a place on the General Assembly and the General Assembly of the United Nations, there are enormous differences between the resources which are available erm for different states ... and their capacity to act.
[106] You think of, I mean the obvious great power, the one superpower that's left now is the United States ... compare the United States with let's say Fiji ... enormous difference in terms of the range of interests it has, erm the things in which in there's hardly anything in the world takes place without some claim of the United States to have an interest in it.
[107] There are very few things take place in the world in which Fiji has a direct interest, it may have a general interest in the way things are going but it, direct interests it, it's quite limited.
[108] Its resources erm the contrasts are enormous between the economic and military and cultural and erm educational resources of the United States and that of Fiji ... so there are obviously, in foreign policy making, vast differences.
[109] And then you'll find even in er similar types of countries the structure in which foreign policy is made are different.
[110] Let me continue with the United States erm example ... in the United States it's a, it's a complex government situation, has Mr been speaking to you?
[111] ... Yes he'll have mentioned the United States on occasions I hope cos he teaches the United States, yeah, well as you know I mean there are a number of separate powers, there's the presidential erm there's the presidential power, in foreign policy making I'm talking about, there's president, there's the congress ... there's the Pentagon, there's the secretary of state for foreign affairs as well, and one of the characteristics of American policy is the way in which sometimes they can be ha be pursuing separate erm aims ... and using different methods.
[112] I have a particular interest in South Africa's erm foreign policy and one of the, from the past, one of the things that South African decision makers have said to me, our dilemma is we do not know what American policy is because if we listen to the Pentagon we get a different voice coming out than if we listen to, let us say, congressional members who are visiting from the committee of foreign affairs.
[113] So the structure in which policy is made erm of er in America is rather plural.
[114] British policy making and there are many similarities between our country, not in size but in terms of its democratic traditions, British policy making tends to be in the end more uniform.
[115] There tends to be, the differences tend to be hammered out behind closed doors and, on the whole, there, there tends to be erm a single voice, it doesn't always happen, but there's more of a single voice in British policy making than American policy making.
[116] Now both have advantages frankly, both have advantages and drawbacks.
[117] But the, the answer to the question then, are or is foreign policy making the same for all governments, again there are similarities.
[118] ... Linked to the question erm about the, the similarity, is the question are all states unique?
[119] Well each has a particular history erm each has a particular culture ... and pattern of doing things, structure of government as I've mentioned ... but also of course we have common interests so in foreign policy we sometimes draw differences between what we would regard as the direct interests of each state ... and what we can call common interests of mankind.
[120] Now let's take a couple of examples of those ... the direct interests of er say in Britain might be er let's take the example of the fishing industry ... it's important in Britain for the fishermen of Britain erm to have the right to be able to maintain their livelihoods ... and that's an interest, direct interest, of Britain in negotiating with other countries about fishing rights.
[121] But there is also a common interest in the world of preserving fishing stock, not over fishing so that in fact you get the depletion of fishing stock, and therefore somehow you have to balance between your particular interests and the common interests.
[122] I think we've become erm in recent decades more inter more concerned about common interests because we realize more about them.
[123] Well perhaps the technological advances we've seen mean our capacity to handle things has had to expand.
[124] ... There's a common interest of course of avoiding war ... for most people anyway, but there's also a common interest we know related to environmental issues ... and that cannot be dealt with by each country, each country may have unique environmental problems but environmental problems straddle erm boundaries of countries as we saw from the Chernobyl ... problem of some years ago.
[125] ... And the final general question I want to ask ... is how much choice do foreign policy makers have?
[126] ... There are in fact, again, conflicting views about this ... erm ... you can sometimes see it erm in literature in fact.
[127] If you read Tolstoy's novels you will find that the great figures,i i in his War and Peace which is about erm the Napoleonic invasion of erm Russia, has anybody read War and Peace?
[128] ... It's quite a big book so I erm a good weekend's reading, War and Peace.
[129] Well in War and Peace it's a story of the er I mean there are many themes go on but the broad sweep of history is about the Napoleonic invasion of Russia and the way the Russians defended themselves against the French armies.
[130] Now within that situation Tolstoy paints a picture in which the, even the greatest generals are in fact subject to forces which they cannot control.
[131] In a sense destiny is playing it out for them.
[132] You have some choices but they're pretty marginal, frankly, on the whole erm the choices are predetermined for people ... erm we are like minnows in a global situation.
[133] And so you can see by the Tolstoy approach to things the way in which erm choice is really very limited and there's a great sweep of events which carries you on.
[134] Now if you read Mrs Thatcher's memoirs you will decide that instead of a great sweep of events er making things happen, Mrs Thatcher makes things happen.
[135] Erm it's the other end of the scale of seeing the way in which individuals erm perceive their role erm in political developments.
[136] And again, you see this is on the one hand, on the other hand there is some justification in both views.
[137] Any state has limitations on how it can behave, they're partly geographical, it does make a difference whether you're an island or whether you've got no coastline at all.
[138] In southern Africa several of the states have no coastline, Zambia Zimbabwe ... Malawi ... Swaziland ... so they have to depend upon other countries for access erm to the coast, and that means their transport patterns are very very dependent upon others.
[139] That's not true of an island country like Japan, or of Singapore ... and they are very much related to transport routes in which they can control much of what's happened.
[140] Secondly of course there are opportunities and limitations to your, the resources that you have and I've mentioned resources before, they can be economic, military, your education system ... erm you know at the moment the government's expanding higher education, going up, well we've, we've touched already I think thirty percent now in higher education ... one of the reasons for that is not just to, for self-fulfilment for those who are erm involved in higher education as I'm sure you're all self-fulfilling yourself here today, it's because of what is perceived to be a national need for a highly educated workforce.
[141] So there are educational erm resources erm as well as others and in my view one of the great gaps that's starting er that's growing and growing in the world is the difference between educational patterns in the more advanced world and that in some parts of what we normally call the Third World.
[142] ... But of course there is some choice erm ... let me give you a final southern er Africa example of this, Botswana geographically is one of those countries cut off from the sea, it's a very large country but much of it is uninhabitable because it's so arid ... it's therefore a small country by almost any standards, number of people, the economy of er of Botswana is small and it's frankly dependent upon South Africa in many ways for its transport, for its economic wellbeing, for the movement of people erm and even some educational resources.
[143] Now Botswana could not cut itself off from South Africa during the long years of apartheid but Botswana did make clear that it opposed apartheid ... and voiced this very strongly ... and much to the annoyance often of the South African government.
[144] So even in the situation in which apparently you're quite heavily dependent upon a neighbouring state, there usually is some element of choice.
[145] The range and nature of that choice maybe related to the concept of power and I want to talk about power at a future lecture.
[146] But for today I now want to turn to a number of erm ... definitions and classifications linked to foreign policy and this is where I want you to start working a bit harder.
[147] The first thing I'd like you to do is try to write er will you please write down erm don't shout out at the moment, write down what would be your definition of foreign policy.
[148] Write down a definition of foreign policy, one sentence definition of foreign policy.
[149] ... Good well let's try to collect some of the ideas then, would the man sitting in the extreme front, would you like to read out what you've written please?
[150] ... Yes please.
(JSLPSUNK) [151] Erm the process of maintaining a state's interest in the international arena.
(JSLPSUNK) [152] Maintaining a state's interest in the international arena, that's a very good start.
[153] ... Good, let me try the man in red in the centre please, yes.
[154] ... Yes please, you're looking round, yes, yes
(JSLPSUNK) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [155] w w [laugh] what have you written?
[156] ... You, you're in red and you've got glasses an and you're looking, you're keep on looking down and round and [laughing] but it's you I would like to hear from [] yes what have you written? ...
(JSLPSUNK) [157] It's erm political [...] state's interaction with other states. ...
(JSLPSUNK) [158] State's interaction with other states.
[159] ... That's good too.
[160] Yes, sorry I'm, I'm er [laugh] it's dim here so I, sorry I
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [laugh]
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [161] I ... erm let me try somebody else.
[162] The lady right at the back on the, on the b end of the row.
[163] What have you got?
(JSLPSUNK) [164] Erm cross state political, economic, social, military and technological issues.
(JSLPSUNK) [165] Across states military, economic, etcetera issues, is that right?
[166] ... And I'll try somebody over here please if I could, the man with his elbow on the left like that, that's right.
(JSLPSUNK) [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [167] Could, sorry, could you speak up please?
(JSLPSUNK) [168] Any domestic policy which [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [169] Any domestic policy
(JSLPSUNK) [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [170] Yes ... affects the outside world.
[171] ... Well they're all, they've all got value, they're all useful.
[172] Let me read out roughly what I've got down here, it is the ... the pr presentation and er er sorry I've scribbled down and I can't read my scribble altogether, I know it's
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [173] it's interests in international affairs, could you read out again what you said?
(JSLPSUNK) [174] The process of maintaining a state's interest in the international arena.
(JSLPSUNK) [175] The process of maintaining a state's interest in the international arena.
[176] So it's a process, it's got interests, it's related to a state and it's in the international arena, very good, very good, a lot of erm ... er a lot of very good things there.
[177] Now who was the state's interests with other states, was it ... were you the state's interests in other states or ... no, I keep getting you wrong.
[178] Yes where did I get the state's interest in other states from?
[179] ... Well I'll have to accept that I don't know where that came from but I've got down here [laughing] state's interest []
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [180] with other states, and then across state activity, I know where I got, the girl right at the back wasn't it?
[181] ... Good yes so I've got that right, erm across states, military, economic issues etcetera from others so a range of activities goes on, that's fair enough.
[182] Erm and then any domestic policy which affects the outside, so that's a projection of domestic interests erm into the outside world, so I'll show you what I've written down and it's influenced by what you've got in that book ... by Clarke, I'm afraid it falls off the end a bit, foreign policy is a government activity concerned with relations between the state and other actors in the international arena, that should be.
[183] ... So foreign policy is a government activity concerned with relations between the state and other actors in the international system.
[184] ... Now frankly you, the things that you said are, are not wrong in any sense, they just are different ways of saying a similar thing.
[185] Let's look at the definition a bit.
[186] First of all it's a government activity, now let's be quite clear about that, we're talking about governments here, we're not talking about erm oil companies or private airlines or non-governmental organizations like Amnesty International, we're talking about governments.
[187] Foreign policy is an activity of governments.
[188] Secondly it's concerned with relations between the state, that is the particular state that the government represents, and other actors in the international system.
[189] ... Now the next thing I'd like you to note down is when I say other actors in the international system, obviously there are other governments as well but as well as governments if you, the word actors is quite often used in international affairs, if you were to list what the other actors are erm would you, would you note down them, say, put ... four or five other actors.
[190] ... Right let me collect your ideas on this then, erm would you like to tell me what you've written please? ...
(JSLPSUNK) [191] Er [clears throat] er World Health Organization
(JSLPSUNK) [192] W H O, the World Health Organization.
(JSLPSUNK) [193] erm international charities such as the Red Cross
(JSLPSUNK) [194] Charities, okay that's, that's a good contribution, I don't want to take them all from you, I want others as well. ...
(JSLPSUNK) [195] Erm United Nations er [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [196] U N, European Commission?
[197] You're talking about the commission in particular?
[198] Yes?
(JSLPSUNK) [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [199] No that's alright.
[200] Okay.
[201] Right erm let me go right to the back, the Security Council man, what have you written down?
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [202] Erm foreign businesses ... er [...] international laws ...
(JSLPSUNK) [203] What was the international laws?
(JSLPSUNK) [204] Maintenance.
(JSLPSUNK) [205] [...] international laws [...] shipping lanes and stuff like that.
(JSLPSUNK) [206] Oh yes, yes.
[207] Okay.
[208] Yes.
[209] ... Somebody over here, the young lady with black hair, that's right.
(JSLPSUNK) [210] Erm well I'd put down the U N [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [211] Yes, U N, okay.
[212] Anything else?
[213] Okay.
[214] Well that's quite a good collection.
[215] W first of all though I think I've got them right this time I hope, the World Health Organization, charities, the United Nations, the European Commission erm foreign business organizations and l the bodies that ... lay down regulations er for activities.
[216] Well what we see, if we generalize about these, first of all there are international organizations, the U N is an international organization.
[217] So is the World Health Organization, it's in fact a branch of the U N, so you've got a series of international organizations.
[218] Any other examples of international organizations?
[219] ... Yes please?
(JSLPSUNK) [220] The world bank.
(JSLPSUNK) [221] The world bank, the world bank is actually a branch started from the U N. Yes?
(JSLPSUNK) [223] NATO, yes that's, that, NATO is a of course a military organization.
[224] I think there's a very interesting as well as the, I mean the tragedy that we know of Bosnia Hercegovina, there's a very complex business going on at the moment about the handling of an international situation.
[225] Erm you've got this, this business of threatening to attack the Serbian guns erm involves of course the decisions of individual governments whether or not they're prepared to allow their forces to be involved, in the case of the British whether you're going to allow your forces to get involved in it or not, but in international terms it involves both NATO, which has now passed a resolution saying unless certain conditions are met by a certain time, then there will be bombing of the Serbian positions ... but the people on the ground, whether they originally came from France or the Ukraine or from Britain, are in fact under the blue beret of the United Nations and the United Nations and NATO are not altogether, they're not precisely together on this issue.
[226] There's a dilemma of who's taking decisions about what ... and should the troops on the ground who may be involved, could be involved in fighting ... following an air strike erm are not under a NATO flag, they're under a United Nations flag, so it is quite a complex situation and a very delicate one to handle.
[227] So there, there are international organizations.
[228] Now charities, we would group them together as N G Os they're often called, non- governmental organizations.
[229] Now we've heard charities, any other examples of N G Os?
[230] ... Yes please?
(JSLPSUNK) [232] The union society?
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [233] No [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [234] Oh [laughing] [...] [] [laugh] sorry.
(JSLPSUGP) [laugh]
(JSLPSUNK) [236] UNICEF yes, that's a, another branch of the United Nations but it is, it does operate you're quite right.
[237] Any other?
(JSLPSUNK) [238] Pressure groups.
(JSLPSUNK) [239] Pressure groups, yes, for example?
(JSLPSUNK) [240] Greenpeace.
(JSLPSUNK) [241] Greenpeace, very good.
[242] Pressure groups, Greenpeace the anti-apartheid movement, Amnesty International ... they do play important parts.
[243] Any members of Amnesty here?
[244] ... Good.
[245] You see you're part of the international scene whether you realize it or not.
[246] So non-governmental organizations.
[247] And then even within ... two of you mentioned the European Commission, now the Commission is of course a part of what's nown now known as the European Union ... erm it's a particular branch but even within the broader framework, parts can play an important role erm within international affairs and the Commission has a particular role, not just within the European Union, but of course in international affairs generally.
[248] The negotiations for the GATT agreement, the general oh er what, what does GATT mean? ...
(JSLPSUNK) [249] General [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [250] Very good.
[251] The General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade.
[252] It was negotiated on behalf of the European Community, as it then was, by ... who led the negotiation?
(JSLPSUNK) [...]
(JSLPSUNK) [253] Leon Brittan, absolutely right, and he was representing the Commission, yes.
[254] Yes and then of course you get business organizations, the ... and much business is now internationally based, we've, we recognize this recently from the erm the purchase of Rover by B M W erm but of course the big companies have operated for long across international boundaries, whether it be oil companies like Texaco or chemical companies like I C I erm or MacDonalds, you know one of the symbols that erm lets you know Russia had been opened up to the international community was the erm presence of a MacDonalds' erm shop in Moscow.
[255] Anybody been to Moscow?
[256] ... Did you go to Macdonalds?
[257] ... No, well it is one of the sights as [laughing] you know but erm [] I'm sure you heard about it when you were there didn't you?
[258] Yes.
[259] ... Right erm well I hope I've covered most of the range of things that come.
[260] Now let me push on a bit and erm I won't ask you to write this down, but when we, we've been talking about the state ... now what are the characteristics of the state?
[261] Well first of all the state has geographical boundaries, that is you enter a state ... whether it be Fiji or the United States, as I mentioned before, by crossing a boundary.
[262] Now the boundary may be a sea boundary, it may be land boundary, it may be an air boundary ... because the states claim a control over erm particular physical structures.
[263] ... The land boundaries are probably the easiest of all.
[264] When you cross the Rhine you can, in some places, you can cross from France to Germany, it's a very clear one.
[265] Erm sea boundaries are now a bit more complex because the law of the sea has been changing erm over recent decades.
[266] There is an i a concept of territorial water, that is the water which surrounds a particular state erm is controlled by that state and falls within the laws of that state.
[267] Erm there used to be an agreed area of three miles then it went to twelve miles but that's now in question because of the different ways in which the sea has been developed.
[268] Erm if you ... have, if you envisage the sea ... this is the top, I'm not a great artist as you can see but you, things er ... here's my boat sailing on the top of the sea, well there's laws related to that erm when does a boat, for example, enter territorial waters, come within your law.
[269] There's also erm, that's a fish swimming in the sea, there's also a law related to fishing, as I mentioned before.
[270] There's also erm attempts at regulation related to what lies on the sea bed because in some parts of the oceans there are valuable mineral deposits lying on the sea bed.
[271] Who owns them?
[272] Much of it is in the middle of the Pacific, you see, which used to be a common area [...] but the only people who could, at the moment, have the technology to tap those resources are the very advanced states so there is a dispute about the right to develop those or not.
[273] And then there is underneath the sea bed, which has been very important for the United Kingdom because of the great oil and gas resources which we found and if you had had er more limited erm concepts of the