BNC Text JSN

TNT Express: Team focus training session. Sample containing about 17297 words speech recorded in business context


11 speakers recorded by respondent number C592

PS4NE Ag4 m (Peter, age 58, trainer) unspecified
PS4NF Ag2 f (Whitwerth, age 30) unspecified
PS4NG Ag2 f (Mary, age 30, telesales person) unspecified
PS4NH Ag2 m (Mark, age 30, sales executive) unspecified
PS4NJ Ag2 m (Jack, age 30, sales executive) unspecified
PS4NK Ag2 f (Jane, age 30, telesales person) unspecified
PS4NL Ag2 f (Linda, age 30, telesales person) unspecified
PS4NM Ag2 m (Dave, age 30, telesales person) unspecified
PS4NN Ag2 u (Matt, age 30, sales executive) unspecified
JSNPSUNK (respondent W0000) X u (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other
JSNPSUGP (respondent W000M) X u (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other

1 recordings

  1. Tape 121201 recorded on 1994-02-10. LocationWarwickshire: Atherstone () Activity: training session seminar

Undivided text

Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [1] O K, I'll go from there, the effect of the course is a team focus course for T N T Express.
[2] Erm, right, what I would like you to do, and what we've agreed is that, just introduce your partner.
[3] O K, and I'd like you to be able to tell me not only something about him, her, but also obviously the three things that you don't currently know.
[4] Now where will we begin.
[5] We'll begin with er, John, come on, we're all laughing at you.
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [6] Shall I stand, I don't have to stand do I?
Peter (PS4NE) [7] No you don't.
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [8] Jenny , [...] , she's worked for Express for three and half months, and she previously worked for A N C, er, on their pallet service in Sheffield and South Yorkshire area.
[9] Er, she's got quite tough at T N T, being quite new to it, but er, she's got it even harder because she has to work with me, but er, she doing very well with B M A system.
[10] Er, she's been at the, well something I didn't know, she's been at the depot the shortest time of all our indoor, but she's the first one to get the first day to [...] , percent, [...] , so that's good.
Peter (PS4NE) [11] Well done.
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [12] The second thing I didn't know, she er, she worked eighteen, she worked for eighteen months in London, arrived there for a holiday, and er, from being eighteen, so sh , this now will explain why she's quite mature as I said she's still very young, and that.
[13] Er, we have the largest territory in [...] , in the depot, it [...] , very like in all ages, in existing customers, and customer base.
[14] The problem of the assault course of whether she's actually fitted in in three months, anyhow that's what we ought to write that in, but er, she travels [...] , she travels most weekends playing hockey for Yorkshire, and has done that for four years, and she's all over, where were you?,
[15] Wrexham, she was at Wrexham not so long back, like, so she's er, quite a sporty type, er
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [16] She's a good sporty model.
[17] Coupe.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [18] She was quietly [...] , in a place called Peddeston, she's chucked a travel ticket, it's a bit much for her to do, big tough training and that sort of thing, but hopefully she'll pass her test in the near future, and all she needs to be able to do is get her rise so she can afford to make up.
[19] Right, that's it, brief and exciting.
Peter (PS4NE) [20] Right that's lovely.
[21] So, er, quite an hockey player eh?
[22] That's excellent, so what about playing for the country, good chance?
Mary (PS4NG) [23] Not that good.
Peter (PS4NE) [24] Not that good, right, alright.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [25] Well done, that's it, right, O K. Go on Matt.
Matt (PS4NN) [26] O K, erm, David , age fifty one, he's been with T N T since his [...] , erm, Dave's hobbies, he goes to car rallies, and he's very involved with politics, he also likes going down the pub and playing darts and having an [...] .
[27] He's been married thirty years, he's got three children, erm, Nick who's twenty six, Caroline who's twenty two, and Christopher, fourteen.
[28] Er, three things I didn't know about Dave.
[29] Dave used to be the Chairman of the Young Conservatives at thirty two, er, he was also a local councillor in nineteen seventy-five to nineteen seventy-eight in his home town of , erm, and he used to be Rotarian, for two years, he goes to raise money for charities.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [30] Right, [clapping]
Matt (PS4NN) [31] Erm, his son Nick, he's a computer programmer for I C L, but I believe it's now changed it's name to D two B. Caroline's at Essex University taking a Master's Degree in Art, and Christopher's still at school.
[32] Previously to T N T Dave was in the steel industry, and he worked in that for thirty years er, doing [...] , and one or two other things, one of which was G K N, that's it.
Peter (PS4NE) [33] How long have you been in [...] , Dave?
Dave (PS4NM) [34] Er, June
Peter (PS4NE) [35] That's right, yes, yes.
[36] Have you settled in?
Dave (PS4NM) [37] Yes, thank you.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [38] I think it was a bit strange, I think at first wasn't it?
Dave (PS4NM) [39] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [40] yes, that's right.
Dave (PS4NM) [41] yes, but we had problems making it.
Peter (PS4NE) [42] That's right, but you were a councillor for instance Dave?
Dave (PS4NM) [43] Yes.
Peter (PS4NE) [44] Right.
[45] So that's the sort of political thing.
Dave (PS4NM) [46] That's right, yes.
Peter (PS4NE) [47] Good, yes.
[48] So why, why did you stop doing that?
[49] Did you get, is that because you moved away?
[50] Did erm, what was it four years?
Dave (PS4NM) [51] Well when you're elected as a councillor, you've got provision for three years, that's right, I got re-elected after three years, after three months there they changed their minds and decided to put er, a labour council in, so I mean.
Peter (PS4NE) [52] Right, yes [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [53] You can't really understand why they'd do that can you?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [54] They all, they all think it's so unfair, don't they, that's right, yes, oh well at least you've stood again and, and, and on your feet, that's alright, O K.
Dave (PS4NM) [55] The only chance I'd got of staying on, er, a couple of people don't know this, it's quite vital sometimes to become what they call an alderman.
Peter (PS4NE) [56] That's right.
Dave (PS4NM) [57] But to qualify for that you've had, you've actually got to be a councillor for six years, so I got half way there,
Peter (PS4NE) [58] That's right.
Dave (PS4NM) [59] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [60] Of course you could have become Lord Mayor then if you'd been an alderman?
Dave (PS4NM) [61] No, you can become the mayor
Peter (PS4NE) [62] The mayor, not the Lord Mayor, that's [...] , that's right, no.
Dave (PS4NM) [63] Not a lot [...] to that.
Peter (PS4NE) [64] That's right, yes,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [65] And build more houses, more council houses.
Peter (PS4NE) [66] That's right [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [67] Yes, I think it does something really nasty, you know, you could have got in again and just been sort of whiter than white just doesn't work with the er,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [68] Er, I think the reason, the main reason we've got that tower was before castle lets up.
Peter (PS4NE) [69] No, I mean that's very stupid isn't it, I mean
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [70] I mean, you'd need to do something really awful, [...] , but if you did something really awful like [...] , for being good, but having said that erm, you could have got elected again.
[71] Erm, yes.
Dave (PS4NM) [72] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [73] Erm, Mary do you want to tell us about Mark?
Mary (PS4NG) [74] This is Mark , erm, three things I didn't know about Mark.
[75] But this is one I learnt yesterday
Peter (PS4NE) [76] Ah that's alright, let's here this.
Mary (PS4NG) [77] Good, [...] , Mark asked me how old he was, and I said about twenty nine.
Peter (PS4NE) [78] Right
Mary (PS4NG) [79] It was meant to be thirty six.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [80] I didn't know, I'd have said thirty five.
Mary (PS4NG) [81] He signed for Liverpool when he was sixteen years old, and he was going to be a footballer.
Peter (PS4NE) [82] Right, thank you.
Mary (PS4NG) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [83] A season
Peter (PS4NE) [84] Oh right
Mary (PS4NG) [85] And he did train, he actually trained [...] for five years, and instead of holiday he got [...] , and something he'd like to have done is learnt to compete in the Whitbread Round the World.
Peter (PS4NE) [86] Oh right.
Mary (PS4NG) [87] He'd like to have a go at that.
[88] He's married to Amanda, he's got two boys, Bryan and Daniel, two, four and Natalie at six.
[89] He's a Kate Bush fan, not domestic at all, he needs ironing lessons, and we've worked five w , we've worked for five weeks together to go over territory, and before he joined er, a large part of his career was in contract services and projects and business development in ex-army [...] .
Peter (PS4NE) [90] Right, yes.
Mary (PS4NG) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [91] Yes, you didn't fancy moving from Liverpool then, and apply to some other second-rate football centre then?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [92] Why I er, said that was because twenty years ago we weren't a second-rate football team.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [93] Oh, I'd forgotten that, yes, it's this sort of tendency that Liverpool's always been good, but I remember [...] .
[94] Go on Roy tell us about Jane.
Peter (PS4NE) [95] Er, well this is Jane , erm, my colleague, we both work for the depot.
[96] Erm, Jane's been with us now for eight months, and this is her, how many? the sixth outfit she's worked in.
[97] She recently changed erm, to come and work for me on the Warwickshire area about four weeks ago.
[98] We are in fact top of the [...] charts so we're quite pleased with the progress we've made within those four weeks.
[99] Erm, some strange things that I didn't know about Jane, erm
Peter (PS4NE) [100] Steady
Peter (PS4NE) [101] One is she's very interested in the occult, erm, she actually practices tarot card readings, and what she calls the crystal oracle, and she gave me a brief explanation, which is throwing a load of rocks up a cloth er, but I'm not going to push me
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [102] I'm not going to push me luck on [...] , I don't fancy finding little problems so early in the morning.
[103] She does a lot of horse riding, erm, she hasn't got her own horse any more, but she uses a local stable and gets to ride once, once a week or once a fortnight.
[104] Erm, she's lived most of her life in the Cambridge and Northampton area but she's spent six months down in Plymouth, and erm, her previous job before working for T N T was she actually helped set up a baby unit in a private nursery, but claimed she only prefers other people's children.
[105] Erm, once she walked into W H Smith's and saw her father, the only difference was that he was on the front page of a magazine so she got quite a shock because she didn't expect to see him.
[106] Erm, and that's about it really, erm, she lives in at the minute, and this was a gentleman called [...] in the sky.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [107] Ski.
Peter (PS4NE) [108] Oh sorry, [...] in skiside, yes.
Peter (PS4NE) [109] Well, oh go on.
Peter (PS4NE) [110] And she's a Sagittarius, which I'm sure has some links with the occult somewhere [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [111] It certainly has some links with something if she's a Sagittarian, she's so bloody pedantic.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [112] Er, right, why was your dad on the front of a magazine, is it embarrassing or can you tell us?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [113] No, it was just a business magazine.
Peter (PS4NE) [114] Ah, damn, right, O K.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [115] [laugh] , [clapping]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [116] It wasn't anything [...] , it wasn't the top shelf or anything.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [117] Ah, it's dreadful isn't it, ah [...] , [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [118] Yes, it does seem bad news does.
Peter (PS4NE) [119] Come on Jane, who're you going to tell us about?
Jane (PS4NK) [120] Sorry, erm, about Jack
Peter (PS4NE) [121] Jack? good old Jack.
Jane (PS4NK) [122] Right, he's an outdoor sales manager, he's been with T N T eleven years, erm, previous to being with T N T he was on [...] , two [...] sales for seven years, and previous to that he sold diaries, business cards, business gifts.
[123] Erm, he's married to Margaret, and they have one daughter Jane, erm, [...] , Jack actually sets up all the, all of our equipment and everything for us.
Peter (PS4NE) [124] Right.
Jane (PS4NK) [125] Erm, Jack does gamble, erm, with his, with the dogs but he, but he also breeds them as well, and he goes to the dogs two or three times a week.
[126] Erm, and he also used to own a [...] , and all.
Peter (PS4NE) [127] Right, so there are some things you didn't know about him.
[128] Yes.
[129] I didn't know that either, some of the other things were good, right.
[130] Ah, that's good, right.
[131] [...] , Right, yes, [clears throat] , David, come on, tell us about Matt.
Dave (PS4NM) [132] Right, this is Matt .
[133] He hates being called Matthew, his actual real name is Arthur Matthew , and if you put those initials down A M D, it sounds like a transport company [...] .
Peter (PS4NE) [134] Yes.
Dave (PS4NM) [135] He's a bill sales, how long have we been in the indoor sales, or territory four, nine, one, in Manchester depot, which covers the Greater Stockport area.
[136] He started at T N T in nineteen eight-eight, he's now twenty two years of age.
[137] He started off at Ramsbottom depot, er, a few things I didn't know about him.
[138] I knew he was very, very keen on football, but he tells me he's also keen on fishing, cricket and baseball.
[139] And also I knew he'd booked a holiday to go to Antigua, but me being totally ignorant about cricket, didn't realise he was going to watch the Antigua versus England test match in April, so that's where he's off to in April.
[140] Erm,
Peter (PS4NE) [141] Actually, he could probably get a game.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [142] [laugh] , [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [143] We had to start again
Peter (PS4NE) [...]
Dave (PS4NM) [144] He's single, and lives at home with his parents.
[145] He has two sisters.
[146] Erm, one thing some people do know that are in this room, and others don't, and he's quite embarrassed about this, on the way home from the conference, Matthew and I had a very, very bad accident, on the motorway and we're both very, very lucky to have survived actually, erm, but erm, unfortunately during the course, well after the accident, Matthew was breathalysed and found to be over the limit and he's in court actually in the Birmingham area on the twenty second of February, and we're hoping that he gets off with a very light sentence, but er, we're both very, very lucky to be here today.
Peter (PS4NE) [147] Yes, and erm, I'm very sorry about it, er, because if they'd breathalysed me I would have failed as well.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [148] Yes, [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [149] And I think that perhaps we've all learned a lesson from it, plus the fact that you've er, had to climb out of an horrendous accident, but the fact that if you are still drinking at half past four in the morning, the last thing you should do at nine o'clock in the morning is get in the car and drive the damn thing.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [150] People never used to [...] , years ago, why did it happen like that now?
[151] It's crazy.
Peter (PS4NE) [152] I, I, I'm, I am absolutely mortified, because, I have to say I think that erm, I got in the car, I don't have very far to drive from the N E C, erm, twenty minutes and I'm home, but I go on the M 1 motorway and er, and I never gave it very much thought, and on Monday when I was told Dave, what had happened, erm, there but for the grace of God.
[153] Is that a fair comment?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [154] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [155] And er, I also hope that the, the Brummie magistrates whoever they are, are er, decent to you, I doubt if they will be if that's any consolation, but er, whatever happens, let's hope it comes out good, and we're delighted that you both survived.
[156] Erm, but of course that [...] , but it was a bad accident wasn't it?
Dave (PS4NM) [157] My car was a total write-off.
Peter (PS4NE) [158] That's right, yes, it was a blow-out though wasn't it, I mean you didn't hit anything?
Dave (PS4NM) [159] It was blow-out [...] , on the driver's side, and erm, well we just lost it, the wheel was snatched out of his hand when the tyre went and the next thing we just slammed into the barrier and then got catapulted into a concrete wall,
Peter (PS4NE) [160] That's right, yes, [...]
Dave (PS4NM) [161] Actually it was lucky that we went right over all three lanes of the motorway, there was a lot of people behind us, but luckily they saw the tyres [...] , and they backed off, but we could have finished up in a real
Peter (PS4NE) [162] That's right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Dave (PS4NM) [163] In a real mess.
Peter (PS4NE) [164] Well
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [165] Yes, everybody drinks [...] , that time in the morning going to work, and you know yourself that you're [...] , that you're not really here.
Peter (PS4NE) [166] That's right [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [167] I drove back Friday afternoon, three and half hours, [...] , after conference.
Peter (PS4NE) [168] So you didn't stay for the evening?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [169] No
Peter (PS4NE) [170] Oh right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [171] I mean it's crazy, why don't they have the conference time at ten o'clock in the morning, and have the conference and everybody go home at a decent time, it's silly.
Peter (PS4NE) [172] Well erm, I think it's going to certainly erm, create one or two thoughts, and I think we have to recognise that
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [173] Yes, erm, you can come down the night before conference can't we so,
Peter (PS4NE) [174] Aye, we could have loads of young people together, and you could get loads of old people together er, [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [175] [laugh] , [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [176] Anyone, anyone [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [177] Or of, of mixed age group, let's put it like that, er, I only mention it because [...] things are going to fall over and go to bed, erm, and everyone else stays up again.
[178] You know, and if it is just the way it happens, particularly when you get a er, an envelope with says here you are, have free drinks, you know that some people, they don't drink at all so they can go to somebody else and say here you are.
[179] Er, it's a shame because er, to be honest I thought it was an excellent conference
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [180] It was
Peter (PS4NE) [181] Good about everything, good salesmen, erm, but I think we do have to take er, Jack's thoughts on that, that really perhaps we are begging the question when we, just forget ourselves and keep going till three, four o'clock in the morning whatever it is, and then we'll get in the car and drive home.
[182] O K, done that bit, erm, come on Jane, tell me about Roy.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [183] Right, this is Roy , he's twenty nine years old, he's been with T N T for fifteen months.
[184] He doesn't want to cover the Warwickshire area, and he's hoping soon perhaps to get promoted to senior [...] executive.
Peter (PS4NE) [185] Good.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [186] In his spare time, this it what I didn't know, he's an avid [...] , which I am also, so we'll be swopping games in the near future.
[187] Erm, he gave his job up when he was twenty two years old to tour the States for six months.
[188] And when he came back he got a job in Marks and Spencer's on the shop floor.
[189] Erm, something else I didn't know, he's [...] in the theatre, his favourite is musical
Peter (PS4NE) [190] Yes, musical
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [191] Yes, show my ignorance.
[192] Les MisÚrables, and he's in love with a woman called Lindsey , who played , in that particular play.
[193] Roy said he would be in joint forces on the territory probably at the beginning of this quarter, erm, so far so good.
Peter (PS4NE) [194] Well you made him sound really, really boring.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [195] Why?
Peter (PS4NE) [196] And this really exciting life he's had, and you made it sound very boring.
[197] They didn't know, Jane asked him [...] well done.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [198] We'd best come over here now I think, hadn't we.
[199] Linda come on tell us about whoever.
Linda (PS4NL) [200] I'm introducing Jane , who works with us on the same telephone team with Jack.
[201] Erm, she's worked with us, she's worked with T N T three and half years.
[202] Erm, she covers the Durham, Gateshead and Bishop Auckland area, the reason being is that I look after our certain areas, and Jane looks after certain areas, and we both make appointments for Jack.
Peter (PS4NE) [203] Cor!
[204] Jack's [...] , [laugh]
Linda (PS4NL) [205] [laugh] , so we have certain days,
Peter (PS4NE) [206] Right.
Linda (PS4NL) [207] So like one week, I'll take three days out of that week, and Jane only has two.
[208] The following week Jane has three, and I have two.
Peter (PS4NE) [209] Right.
Linda (PS4NL) [210] But it doesn't work [laughing] out like that most of the time []
Peter (PS4NE) [211] No, I was just going to say, that sounds like a wonderful idea until you try it.
Linda (PS4NL) [212] I go, I go in her days, and she goes in on mine, but never mind.
[213] Jane has erm, one sister and two brothers.
[214] Her sister's got two, two kids, erm, one boy, one girl.
[215] Erm, unfortunately one of them's in hospital at the moment.
[216] Erm, Jane's twenty six, and before that used to be a hairdresser, as you can tell.
[217] Erm, I found out today, that I didn't realise she'd actually passed a c , a beautician's course, so I don't know why she's taught me out of all, hasn't taught me how to go on.
[218] Erm, has recently been teaching a little girl that lives next-door.
[219] She actually lives on a farm sorry, erm, a little girl next-door to ride.
[220] Erm, and has recently been going to dress-making classes, but she nothing to anybody at work.
[221] Erm, and she's just getting a new car, erm, unfortunately about two year ago, she had an accident in a Nova, well, her mam was driving, and they haven't had a car for two years, so she's just recently getting an Orion, erm, one point eight, diesel, all the body kit, and very, very nice.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Linda (PS4NL) [222] Erm, she keeps going cruising for babes, as she keeps saying.
[223] Erm, unfortunately lately she's erm, stopped drinking because I think she had a drink problem, no she's just being trying quite to cut down, [laughing] no she's being really good []
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [224] It's a good job we're recording all this.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [225] [...] for posterity .
Linda (PS4NL) [226] And that's it really.
Peter (PS4NE) [227] Alright, yes, O K. Right, who, who've we got left, Mark, you better tell us about Mary right.
Mark (PS4NH) [228] This is Mary , she's twenty four years old, she's the indoor sales partnership with me, for Oxfordshire, Bucks and Berkshire, at Bracknell.
[229] Previously she used to work for British Telecom in tele-marketing.
[230] She's married with two little girls.
[231] She's married to Graham, her husband, and he trains race horses and he had a winner last weekend.
Mary (PS4NG) [232] yes
Mark (PS4NH) [233] Three things I didn't know about her, one, she's painted a kid's playroom in primary colours, red, yellow, blue and green, that's gloss on walls etcetera.
[234] She used to sing at parties and school discos when she was ten years old, and wishes she'd made a record.
Mary (PS4NG) [laugh]
Mark (PS4NH) [235] And she'd like to take part in the advanced driving course so she can spin other people's cars instead of mine, and pass them.
Peter (PS4NE) [236] That's amazing, well done, yes, O K. Right, go on, you tell us about John.
Mary (PS4NG) [237] Yes, here's John , and he's worked for Express for nearly four years.
[238] Erm, before that he was the northern sales rep. for a large [...] controls company, he is an amateur [...] , erm, he lives with his wife and eighteen month old son and his wife's expecting another child next month.
[239] Erm, three things I didn't know about John before, he was very mo , modest in pointing out that he was the top salesman twice before last year's award, he was very quick to tell me that.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Mary (PS4NG) [240] Erm, when John was sixteen he had an offer to turn professional at snook , snooker, it's obviously a misspent youth there, and also [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [241] [...] , [laugh]
Mary (PS4NG) [242] Erm, I'm not sure if this is wind up or not, but John informs me that his middle name is Russell, and his dad wanted to call him Jack Russell
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [243] [laugh] , [...]
Mary (PS4NG) [244] His mum made him some [...] instead, and I'll pour it on you after you said that one.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [245] Is that it, you were going really well then, I was looking forward to some more about that actually?
Mary (PS4NG) [246] He got the dog and he called it [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [247] That's right, that bit.
Mary (PS4NG) [248] There's only one thing more I've got to say about John, he's the worst, he's renowned for being the worst [...] in the country, but he, er, got a bit of encouragement from John Mills and Chris Ackland and he's now doing [...] , so that's a good achievement.
Peter (PS4NE) [249] Oh, yes.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [250] They asked me if I wanted me P forty five framed or unframed.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [251] So how can you view the fact that somebody else is er, typing, or doing a transcript of er, what we're actually saying on this tape, we should explain what grotting is, it's most probably you know something that you do on a computer screen rather than if you look it up in the dictionary, what grotting actually means.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [252] It's not something that we do two hundred times a week, but most of us would like to try.
[253] Erm, it's and it's you Jack now I think?
Jack (PS4NJ) [254] Yes, Linda, Linda , indoor sales in Durham, erm, Linda's been with the company for seven years.
[255] She came across erm, T N T in the Overnight days, erm, and I've had the pleasure of working with Linda right the way through the seven years, through Overnight, and Express.
[256] Erm, she's twenty six years of age, erm, she came from a company called Mail Com.
[257] who was a major customer of T N T, [...] Express unfortunately, erm, it's a promotion company.
[258] Linda, has always in the seven years I've known her, spent fortunes on clothes and make-up as you can see.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Jack (PS4NJ) [259] And she's married, she's been married for two and half years to Glen.
[260] Her clever husband built a conservatory for myself on my house last year, the year before.
[261] It's never stopped raining, you realise.
[262] She's got no children, she was telling me last night in bed, there's none on the way either.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [263] [...] , it's interesting what some people say when you're in bed.
Jack (PS4NJ) [264] Erm, I wasn't aware that Linda, erm, was a good cook, she's been tell me she's a good cook, I wasn't aware of that, because in one her drawers there's normally half a tea cake, a scone or whatever you like.
[265] She's, eats junk food, nothing else you cannot [...] , it, but we've er, got a little van pulls up called Grumpy Manor, every morning, and she's first down the stairs to get two or three sandwiches or what have you.
[266] Phone in one hand, and sandwich in the other, that's Linda, but she tells me she's a good cook, and erm, she's also told me there's only, she's only ever been with one guy in her life,
Linda (PS4NL) [267] [laughing] Oh God []
Jack (PS4NJ) [268] [...] , find hard to believe but [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [269] [...] , [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [...]
Linda (PS4NL) [270] No, no, no, no.
Jack (PS4NJ) [271] But erm, that's Linda, and er, as I say I've known her for seven years, you can have a bit of fun, she can take a joke, she's got a good sense of humour, and nice to work with, and she's nice to work with.
Peter (PS4NE) [272] That's right, good, O K, so now we know more about one another.
[273] It's nice to know that junk food doesn't just put weight on, you know on, on everybody else, I don't know, you eat junk food, and there you are as skinny as a rake, it's not on sometimes, but there you are.
[274] O K, so now we know something about one another.
[275] What I would like to do now is to just pass round the, the agenda for, for the , for these two days.
[276] Er, I'd like you to have a look at this, erm, er, then I'll, I'll just talk you through it.
[277] Erm, if I could just pass those around.
[278] ... Cheers, ...
Peter (PS4NE) [279] A coach's pulled up, have I got enough for them?
[280] Erm, the point perhaps of, of, of the thing is, it's called the Team Focus, and hopefully for that very reason what we're trying to do is to look at the way in which you can improve your performance together if you like, erm, and it would be very interesting to see what Jack and Linda can contribute to this in that, people who've worked together for sort of six or seven years, erm, ought to be able to show us something.
[281] So that'll be quite interesting, I'll be interested in seeing all your contributions to this.
[282] Erm, what we have to do is to look at, if you like, the way in which A, we can improve what we do erm, and see if we can't get more out of the two of you than we do currently, I'm sure you'll enjoy what we're doing.
[283] Erm, the ... programme if you like, you will know that er, those of you who've been here before is that, that, certainly when I'm running the course, there is an agenda and that's what we actually do, erm, now on this occasion, I think, I will try and cover as much of the agenda as I can, because frankly this is, it is a good course.
[284] If anybody comes to say, and you tend to sort of say well what do you really want to talk about, er, and do that.
[285] Erm, I'm on this occasion I'll keep as close to this as I can possibly go.
[286] Does anybody want to make any comments about this?
[287] I, I would normally say to you now, right what's your objectives for the two days, but to be honest if we do that, er, I don't think it helps very much, erm, but if anybody wants to make any comments about any specific part of it, er, then I'll try and just talk you through it.
[288] So if you sort of see something then say what the hell's that all about, er, I'll try and talk you through it, and take away any fears that there may be.
[289] ... Is everybody O K with that?
[290] O K. You'll see at the er, towards the end it talks about personal action plan, erm, really it's much more a team action plan than a personal one.
[291] Erm, I want us to get to a stage by the time you leave tomorrow afternoon, where we actually have and you have agreed a plan for your team.
[292] Erm, now I will give you as much help as I can with that, but not the actual subject of it, erm, you can determine what the objective is yourselves.
[293] Erm, and then we'll sort of talk it through and make sure we've got it right, and we'll get it typed up for you, erm, and make sure you take a copy of it away with you.
[294] Er, and I will also say one thing, and that is when you take it away with you I keep a copy of it, and that's our little secret, O K it doesn't go anywhere else.
[295] Right, so nobody else will see that.
[296] It's something for us to discuss, that's what I'm saying, so [...] , so if you commit yourself to something and balls up [...] , erm, the general manager doesn't get a copy of it, and nobody else does, just you and me.
[297] O K, I want to before we, we go any further, to let us have a look at something that is on this agenda which is called commercial awareness.
[298] Now we have in the room here a tremendous amount of experience, of people who've been in the industry, people who've worked with this company for many, many years, and we've also got people with us who have not been with us very long, and I'd you to know we may have covered certain aspects of this on sales skills courses just to talk through what the point of the exercise is, I E what we do for a living.
[299] ... I've only been in the industry, I've only been with this company for two and half years, and when I joined and had a look at what the industry was about, there were thirty express overnight carriers.
[300] The sort of prices which people charged and I've been speaking with Jack only this morning, the sort of prices people charged, started way, way, way down, and then went way, way, way up.
[301] And we, by our very definition were always, I suppose, going to be in inverted commas, the most expensive.
[302] I E we charged more than most of the others.
[303] ... Today there are twenty eight national overnight, express carriers, because two of them stopped trading.
[304] One, Federal Express just decided it wouldn't do it any more, and other other one Elan, a couple of weeks ago, or last week or whatever it was, decided it couldn't afford to do it any more.
[305] And what I think it would be helpful for us to talk about is where we sit in this business, just for half an hour, where does T N T sit in the industry?
[306] Now you're much closer to the pointed end than I am, I don't sell anything, I'm just a cost, and if you don't make a profit I get fired don't I?
[307] They'll say we can't afford you, so it's in my interest really that you make a profit.
[308] Erm, but I'd just like, like you to take a look at the, the sort of commercial awareness bit, and, and to look at what we're looking for.
[309] What sort of business are we looking for as a, as a group, as a company?
[310] You're all out there doing it, on a daily basis.
Jack (PS4NJ) [311] It's quality traffic with a, a.
Peter (PS4NE) [312] Yes, go on
Jack (PS4NJ) [313] Sorry, quality traffic with a, with er, a good rate.
Peter (PS4NE) [314] Right, so we're actually looking for Jack, is parcels,
Jack (PS4NJ) [315] yes
Peter (PS4NE) [316] And we're looking for parcels, quality traffic being I'll do the talking today
Jack (PS4NJ) [317] Parcels, ... parcels , right sorry.
Peter (PS4NE) [318] We're looking for parcels, at the right price
Jack (PS4NJ) [319] yes
Peter (PS4NE) [320] Right, so we're looking at the right price as well, O K, and what else are we looking for?
[321] It has to break
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [322] Certain capacities, store, yes, [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [323] [...] and iron premiums.
Peter (PS4NE) [324] Right, and now we're looking very much more aren't we, at overnight, next day business.
[325] And so, very [...] the onus would be would they not, the three things that we're looking for most of the time.
[326] Although I joined the company only two and half years ago, the contracts which we had then had a two day, three day price on them.
[327] O K.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [328] [...] We've still got some now.
Peter (PS4NE) [329] Yes, but, but it's
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [330] We don't encourage it do we?
Peter (PS4NE) [331] Most of the, what has happened I think, over the last two and half years, that I'm aware of, erm, is basically happening a long time before that, I, I can't say yes or no.
[332] But, during the course of the recession I think what happened was that most companies stopped keeping stocks didn't they?
[333] And so if you went out and you bought er, I don't know, we've, if, a microwave, as you left the store with your microwave, the salesman calls his supplier and says, I need a microwave, because he only keeps three now, whereas even up to three or four years ago, he would have several in the back store, now he doesn't keep them.
[334] And one of the things that's happened in our business I think, erm, is that, is the fact that during the recession people stopped keeping stocks and now they do need a fairly quick delivery of, of their products.
[335] And that's helped.
[336] One of the things we were talking about earlier this morning was, from our point of view anyway, what a super January we had.
[337] Is that a fair comment for everybody?
[338] I mean you may not have that much to compare it with, but certainly in my experience, is that January if I took people round the [...] in January, erm, you sort of made excuses for it.
[339] You know, it's a nice quiet time of the year, we're up to peak and busy up till Christmas, but in January we are a bit quiet, and this year it hasn't been a bit quiet.
[340] Not in the hub anyway.
[341] Erm, we've found that you know, the parcels are still flying through, and so from that point of view, er,ther , there's a lot of strength isn't there?
[342] One of things that we'll never be though is, I think perhaps I can use the, I don't want to use the word cheap because that's not right, but we'll never be less expensive than the others will we?
[343] And why not?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [344] Well it can if you believe in quality.
Peter (PS4NE) [345] yes.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [346] If you're thinking this is what this company's all about, then you can't cut your costs, because you can't give quality if you reduce costs.
Peter (PS4NE) [347] No, I, I, I've only got this company to compare with you see, so there are others who've worked for other companies in, in the industry.
[348] I can't compare with the other companies in the industry.
[349] And I would like to think that other companies in the industry have a training suite like this, and I wonder if they do?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [350] [...] , [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [351] If they saw the state of you, you're going to get pay day.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [352] I don't think it's got a staff room.
Peter (PS4NE) [353] Well er, that's alright, I, I wouldn't [...] , I look at the things which we do very well, erm, and a lot of people say
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [354] A lot of people see T N T, even though they're expensive, they are what most people ex , appreciate they're a little bit exclusive as well, with the service that they offer, the image they portray.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [355] Yes, a lot of people think they can't afford T N T.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [356] Yes, you get that, you're always getting an, an impression, that I don't need that quality of service, but what they're really trying to say is I don't want to pay that price.
Peter (PS4NE) [357] Right, then, is that fairly common?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [358] Well I don't know.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [359] You can also get the ones when, a lot of them, like some companies if they, depending how much business they've got, some companies actually think that, they might have only got fifty pound a week, a hundred pound a week, as they haven't got young businesses, do you get me?
[360] You know what I mean?
[361] I think the bigger it is, I think the bigger
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [362] Yes, that's right, yes,
Peter (PS4NE) [363] Yes, right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [364] The one who did Captain [...] , walked down the road all the action ones.
[365] You know?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [366] Oh my business [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [367] Because they're not going up er, come the last in team.
Peter (PS4NE) [368] Now that's interesting, you were going to say?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [369] I think there's a lot of the co , er, the smaller companies feel that way, but the bigger companies have tried the smaller ones, and I think we, we're not likely to lose the bigger ones as easy as lose the small ones.
[370] They need T N T the big accounts, back-up service in the offices, and so on and so on.
[371] Erm, but the small accounts, yes, and they frighten T N T off, too expensive T N T, before they even look at the price.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [372] Even when you've been in a
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [373] You know, I think we've [...] that nobody keeps us We've had a name over the years that we're an expensive carrier, and it's just sort of keep going and educating them that we've come down in the market or,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [374] Even when you're ringing them, you know somebody that's got two parcels a week, they're sort of thinking, why are you ringing me.
[375] Do you know what I mean, why are you wasting a phone call?
[376] Well, they may well have only two parcels a week, but you know yourself, them two parcels a week is more important to you than, you know what I mean.
Peter (PS4NE) [377] I tell you what if we had every company that sent their two parcels a week, if we carried them all we'd be doing well wouldn't we?
[378] But that, that, that's right, because I'm sure there is that attitude isn't there?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [379] Yes, there is.
Peter (PS4NE) [380] Yes, thank you for that, because that helps, helps us in here.
[381] There, there is this thought then out there from a lot of people that they really ain't big enough for us.
[382] We are very big and therefore we're only looking for big business, is that, is that fair comment?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [383] Mm, that's right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [384] It, it's also a chain, from what you're going on about, people regarding the service, I mean everyone's had a bit, not just the erm, it, it's the purchase managers more than the er, people who pay our premiums, they are just in time and we stood up to be shot at if we don't pay the service, or put a big ones maybe, they'll have half a carton of raw material left for that machine, so they'll order an item for tomorrow morning, well they're not to blame for the service, T N T's to blame for the service if we don't get it erm,
Peter (PS4NE) [385] Yes
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [386] Get it to them, so.
Peter (PS4NE) [387] So that service puts a bit of pressure on operations and so on, does it?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [388] I mean we've got to pay for good, the way, the way that the business is at the moment, because everyone's going next day now, no-one wants three day,
Peter (PS4NE) [389] That's right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [390] You know, I mean we revert a lot of trade here to next day, so the quality of service has got to be good or we lose them.
[391] And we've educated them to go onto next day, and if we're not performing we lose them.
Peter (PS4NE) [392] Right, so the interesting thing from, we've got a lot of experience there, we've got some people in the room who've got a lot of experience in the industry and in business, is that one of the reasons why we're looking for parcels, if you like, is because of that.
[393] That if you like, er, and I've used this example before but I'll use it again, it was quite interesting I think anyway, is that one of the examples we used [clears throat] on one of courses, is that somebody calls into the depot and says, I need help, I've got to get this delivered by tomorrow and collections or you or whoever takes the call, is very excited because this person says it's three hundred and fifty kilos and I need it today, it's Durham, we'll use Durham, we're starting from here, in Durham tomorrow morning.
[394] And everybody gets very excited, because three hundred and fifty kilos in Durham tomorrow morning sounds like a good pay day.
[395] And then what happens when the guy turns up for it, is that's it's ... alright, that's the wheel there
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [396] Eh, it's dropped off [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [397] And it's got a [...] right there, and the [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [398] [laugh] ,
Peter (PS4NE) [399] [...] , it must be carriage free, [...] , said to these fell on Superman.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [400] Well they had to do, [...] , and everybody's got here that he's a, he's engaged, and there, and I mean I know I've used doing my scribble, but here's a little spout here like that and it's got a tap on it, and that's what it is.
[401] And of course our guy turns up doesn't he, and he's seen vino, and all he's got to do now is load it doesn't he?
[402] And when he gets it on, the, the C and D truck it sets off, what happens when he stops at the first set of traffic lights? or turns out?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [403] It cuts through the back doors.
Peter (PS4NE) [404] Well that [...] , that's what I'm saying is that, I think what we have to start doing and I'm not suggesting you're not doing, but I just want to talk about this in, before we practically kick off on the course proper, I think what, I mean that comes off, and then the oil starts dripping out of it, and the minute the oil starts dripping out, then we become quite a good artist aren't we?
[405] So when this oil starts dripping out of here
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [406] Not in here now
Peter (PS4NE) [407] Where does it all soak up into?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [408] In the waste truck.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [409] That's after the wheel [...] , pollution.
Peter (PS4NE) [410] Well that's right, even with help from upstairs, I mean, if it had four wheels on right, ... alright.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [411] It shouldn't have.
Peter (PS4NE) [412] It's not completely true, what I'm saying is that, and then what happens of course, you get over to the hub with, with, with the sales virgins who've just joined the company
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [413] Virgins!
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [414] And you say, today we're, tonight we're talking you over to the hub and we're going to show you all this, and I take them and get over there about ten o'clock, and we go along there to, to look at the, the slats and the trays and there are all these masters flying around being terribly excited about this, terrific noises, and they say, God this is great, but how many parcels will go through tonight?
[415] And you say, oh about sixty thousand so it's best not to look.
[416] I bet sixty thousand, and you know what people in this particular bar, and they say what did you say was being good, how many people work here?
[417] And you say oh, about ninety eight, that's why I've been seen for, and you say come with me.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [418] And you go back to light a sandbag, and there they all are, and they're all a bit hot, it's about, ... it's like Hades [...] , and there's fork-lift trucks flying everywhere and you've got pretty girls who in, in, in the team when you get down there and they start showing off, that's alright, don't mind that, and, and you've got all these fork- lift trucks flying everywhere, and you've got men carrying rolls of carpet and you've got, you know, all this
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [419] yes, those of you who've seen the customer care film they
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [420] Oh yes
Peter (PS4NE) [421] They're certainly the classic lamp-post.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [422] Yes,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [423] I can't believe it.
Peter (PS4NE) [424] Erm, you know you can't blinking hear, and I, the thing is, it's alright for us to laugh in these four walls because [...] , until what you think, is what we're really trying to do.
[425] And I think one of the things that we hopefully might be able to think about, and might be able, not learn, because you know it already, you don't need to learn it, is how we can increase our contribution to what the depot doing, by perhaps having a really close look at what we're actually carrying.
[426] Three hundred and fifty kilos for tomorrow morning, is very exciting, until you realise that oil is the last thing on God's earth we ought to be carrying.
[427] And we are the last people on God's earth, then we'd be carrying it.
[428] The checkout's a lovely example this morning you talking about those pallets that were going to Euro , something,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [429] Delivering [...] pallets to Germany, [...] , with a trailer.
Peter (PS4NE) [430] Eighteen, [...] hours.
[431] There's a man putting twenty pallets on the truck, three hundred and sixty quid to Germany.
[432] I mean we couldn't move from one end of the hub to the other for that, and they are the people who are excellent at doing that sort of business aren't they?
[433] You know, it's not even a [...] is it, it's not even what we want to do.
[434] I've got some figures which you might find quite interesting.
[435] Some of you may have seen a bit of these before or similar ones, but it doesn't matter, because it's worth looking at again.
[436] That every month what it is issued, is some statistics which talk about a s , sort of service analysis for the company.
[437] Now we get to look at these every month, and I want them to keep them to talk to them, to classes about it every month, and so this one, alright it goes back about, but it doesn't matter, because what it does, I hope any way, is gives us some thoughts.
[438] Let me just show you what it says, just get it straight, ... right that's the service analysis for September nineteen ninety-two, alright so we're going back a few months.
[439] Can you see by the way?
[440] Right, O K. Now what it does, he's said right, in September this is what we moved, and then what it does is divides it by four, O K, this is what we did therefore in a week.
[441] Now what is actually talked about, he splits down into two, he splits it down into Express, which is next day, not [...] , all next day, and general which is two day and three day.
[442] And in September ninety two, if I took you back to sort of September ninety one figures were quite different, well in September ninety two, eighty nine percent of our business was next day.
[443] And therefore by definition eleven percent was two day, three day.
[444] And then he got on to explain what the items were, seventy five percent of the items went next day, and ninety thousand went, I'm sorry, and er, and twenty five percent went two day, three day, and if you divide one into the other, what it means is that two point one consignments ... two me , sorry, two point one items per consignment went Express, and six items per consignment, general.
[445] And with this go, I've just got to go on through this, the average weight of an consignment Express, or on next day is twenty eight kilos, and if you're talking about two day, three day, it was ninety nine kilos.
[446] So there there's a pattern.
[447] The good stuff is here, where you're talking about sixty six percent of you trailer as being Express, you're talking about the consignments on a trailer, the items on a trailer, and then that, the revenue per trailer, why do you want to move it next day? ...
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [448] More money.
Peter (PS4NE) [449] Because you make four times as much money don't you?
[450] Erm, that is what's happened to the business isn't it.
[451] Now some of you, if you've only been with the company a few months or whatever it was, may not have noticed too much of a change, er, but I've noticed a bit of a ch , I've noticed a tremendous change in two and half months, two and a half years, and there's some people in the room who must have noticed tremendous changes.
[452] Tremendous changes over the years, in fact I mean you can remember Overnight, [laugh] , or you know before, before overnight actually existed.
[453] And so we've got away haven't we, from the ... the being a carrier, if you like, to the stage where we now transport parcels really.
[454] Is that a fair comment?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [455] I think it's from being a haulier to being a parcel carrier now, Peter.
Peter (PS4NE) [456] A haulier?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [457] We were a haulier's.
Peter (PS4NE) [458] Right, yes.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [459] [...] , can I just speak for a minute.
[460] Bill always used to say, I remember talking to Bill [...] one night at er, at a conference, and his ambition was to walk into every depot at nine o'clock on a morning, and not see a parcel.
[461] I mean, I'm going back well into the haulier days then, three days.
[462] End of Side One.
Peter (PS4NE) [463] Yes
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [464] I mean you think the others would learn, but obviously not.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [465] It's like six, six foot frames of ten kilos next day.
[466] There are only two carriers that'll take that on.
Peter (PS4NE) [467] I've been staggered now.
[468] It doesn't even make commercial sense, and I think that's the, the worst part.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [469] You can make an assessment of the commercial [...] ,
Peter (PS4NE) [470] Yes
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [471] Bring back the express so [...] , it doesn't sort of highlight it, because they don't have tiers of [...] borrowed storage all over the place.
[472] You know.
Peter (PS4NE) [473] Yes, I mean we all pay our electricity bills you know what it costs don't you?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [474] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [475] You know what it costs to run, switch the lights on, you know what it costs to run a conveyor belt for goodness sake, and yet it, and if, if you, if you lose money on, on shifting one parcel, I know if you shift a hundred thousand you might make something, but the chances are high that you won't, and, and I mean there are people shifting more parcels than us, I know that, they can't make any money out of it.
[476] I mean it just appalled me I think that we are all of us, if you like to a degree, tarred with the same brush aren't we?
[477] So that when you introduce yourself, you are seen as a haulier, was the phrase you used, er, and we, we'd all need to spend an awful lot of time and an awful lot of effort into raising ourselves above that image, I mean there's nothing wrong with being a haulier, all I'm saying is that we have to raise ourselves above that image.
[478] O K, I just wanted us to, to do that erm, because erm, one of the things that I suspect when you're getting down to doing your plan tomorrow, is that with the best will in the world, even though I say but this is for sales course, one of things you will want objectively to look at is either your revenue or your trading base or something, er, I just wanted to carry that through.
[479] ... This course is about teams, it's about teams of people, erm, and we have in the room one team, two teams, three teams, four teams and one the right we have a team of three.
[480] And I wondered if perhaps we could look before we go any further at why teams work.
[481] ... Again without being boring, when I first joined the company telesales people made telephone calls and made appointments, and the outdoor went out and did it.
Linda (PS4NL) [482] We used to have twenty five appointments to make a week.
Peter (PS4NE) [483] Twenty five appointments a week, I, I don't think I knew the figure, er, Linda, but if that's the, the figure I'm not a bit surprised.
[484] And during the sort of formative weeks or months of my joining the company the B M S was introduced, and the rules were that the telesales people will now become sales people, and that was one of my briefs if you like, that what you are going to get in front of you Peter is a, is a load of people who are currently working what's called telesales and what they actually do is make appointments.
[485] What you've got to do now is make them into salesmen, forgive me again for using the phrase salesmen, I appreciate that all of you are not men.
[486] ... And
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [487] And some of the people couldn't take it could they?
[488] Some of the people who had suddenly become saleswomen [...] , they had to go, because they couldn't cope with that.
[489] They were pretty good at making appointments but they couldn't cope with sales, and there's been a tremendous change in that over the last two years.
[490] And the other thing that's happened of course, is that the tw , the, the indoor and the outdoor have had to start spending more time working together and think together, and indeed being measured together, because you're now measured as a team aren't you?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [491] yes
Peter (PS4NE) [492] You're given a target as a team, and you're measured as a team.
[493] Let me try and give you an example.
[494] ... One of the first questions you get asked of anybody when they first come on a training course here, er, certainly a sort of foundation course, is that somebody writes up on the board there T N T, and says what does that stand for?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [495] Trans-Nationwide Transporters.
Peter (PS4NE) [496] Thomas [...] Transport.
[497] Before I came here, I thought that T N T was something you make bombs with.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [498] And I knew what it stood for, now what it does stand for Tri Nitro Toluene, it's what you make bombs out of.
[499] ... And if you like, that bit is short for nitrogen, what's nitrogen?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [500] It's a gas.
Peter (PS4NE) [501] It's a gas, where is it?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [502] Where is it?
Peter (PS4NE) [503] Yes, where would you find some then?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [504] In the earth.
Peter (PS4NE) [505] Yes, it's all round us now isn't it?
[506] Right, breathe it in, breath it out.
[507] Very harmless gas and in fact you could do with [...] and leave nitrogen where it is, and it won't do anything.
[508] Where would you find this thing, toluene?
[509] What's that, where do you get toluene, do you know?
[510] ... Alright, toluene comes out of the ground, it comes out as oil.
[511] It is actually distilled from oil, and it's a fairly heavy liquid, and it's, to be honest not inert, but it doesn't do much.
[512] If you filled this room up with toluene it would stop here for the rest of its days, something like that, you know what I mean.
[513] And yet, if you join those two inert things together in the right ratios they go off with a very big bang.
[514] ... And it's called apart from a chemical reaction, but it measured by something called synergy.
[515] Now synergy is where two and two becomes five.
[516] Where what you do is take something, that is capable of doing that, and you take something that's capable of doing that, and you join them together, and between them you get so much more than they could do individually.
[517] There are examples all the time, of a, I'm not going to use football as an example or a team as an example in football, and if you suddenly get a new member to the hockey team or a new member to the football team, or whatever and the whole team is transformed just by this one extra person, this one person joining in.
[518] The reason why Mansell if you like, can drive a similar car to some other man and make it go that much faster, is he adds something to it, to the mixture.
[519] And this is what I want us to do during our two days together.
[520] I want us to learn something more about one another.
[521] I want to us to get, in the nicest possible sense, closer to one another.
[522] I want us to learn what we're good at, and what we ain't very good at.
[523] What we can't do, and what we can do, and see between you, if you can't determine a specific plan of action which is going to improve that which you do.
[524] I've taken over the last few months when we've done our sales training here, talking to certainly on advanced sales skills courses and so on, I've tried to bring an air of realism to their world.
[525] When you get people on to a sort of Noddy Goes Selling course, which is the first one you come on, you are expected to believe that when you leave here anybody who doesn't use T N T Express would be absolutely crazy, and that everybody you're going to talk to is going to bite your arm off as long as you stay with your boyfriend.
[526] But that's part of the occupation, that's part of the, part of the, part of business that we're in.
[527] When you get a bit more wool on your back you know it doesn't work like that does it?
[528] And what I would like us to do is to be able when we leave here tomorrow, to say that by what we've learned about one another, and by what we've actually decided, that we can probably improve what we're doing by something between five and ten percent.
[529] Not doubling it, not trebling it, but to improve it by something like five or ten percent, and then the next time we go to a sales conference, you'll be the ones winning the prizes, instead of the people who've to be winning the prizes, because you'll not have to improve it by much to win the prizes do you?
[530] If you look at, as you did at the conference the teams that were winning prizes, they weren't that much better than you were they?
[531] It's not worth winning the prizes, but they weren't that much better than you.
[532] They were just that bit better than you.
[533] And they're that bit better than you because they're able to organise themselves and they do more in day and do it longer and so and so forth.
[534] What we're going to do is we're going to plan it.
[535] Does that suit everybody?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [536] yes
Peter (PS4NE) [537] Does that sound like a good idea for a couple of days?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [538] yes
Peter (PS4NE) [539] I can promise you the phone won't ring, well it might ring but we won't answer it.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [540] And er, nobody will phone you and say that you've got to be here, there and everywhere.
[541] Nobody will try anything on the desk in front of you, and say I need that now.
[542] Well I might, but I mean that would be part of the game.
[543] What we've got for the first time I suspect, since any of you joined this company and you take the experience over there as well, is that the time you spend two days together, and actually find out what it is that makes you go ... and I don't suppose that happens often, [...] , dropped you off the boat together for more than two hours at a time.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [544] And probably even less than that, now I think of it, two hours that's quite a long time isn't it Peter?
Peter (PS4NE) [545] That's right, it doesn't work like that.
[546] So that's what we're going to be doing.
[547] O K, something different, in one sense.
[548] That brings us to quarter past ten, I suspect that there's, tea and coffee's out there then, and if it is, I think we'll have the break just a bit earlier, and then we can get into it when [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [549] Right, well that tea and coffee have actually turned up, what's happening here now?
[550] Erm, it's now quarter past ten, so we'll be back in at half past?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [551] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [552] O K. Tape turned off.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [553] Time taken like Euroexpress isn't it, finding out whether they've used it,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [554] No they don't.
Jack (PS4NJ) [555] There's another thing what we'd have all said when we got [...] , you'd have said it over the years yourself, erm, well just ring in and we'll give you the price, you know, and if we kind of touch up to contract or flat rate or whatever is the way to get ahead, or you get whatever, ring Linda, or ring Jane and she says right, and we've said that for years,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [556] And she's getting them to ring you, you know
Jack (PS4NJ) [557] And you cannae get away from it, you get a lot of business from them things.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [558] That's right, yes.
[559] Right so what we're saying really, I, I know we've got three other people to come to but what comes out of the first one is, alright, you're saying you've got an organised day, and I'm sure you have, and I don't have any problem as such.
[560] One of the things that you're saying is wrong, not so much an organised day, one of things which causes us a problem, and that's the major one
Jack (PS4NJ) [561] Er, er, one of the things that Not causes a problem
Linda (PS4NL) [562] But every day is different
Jack (PS4NJ) [563] We could improve on a little bit was er, the time spent on incoming calls and queries which is hard to get away from.
Peter (PS4NE) [564] Absolutely, so what else does it show you?
Jack (PS4NJ) [565] That, I mean, the, the appointments what Jane and Linda do make me, I'll be honest, they're quality appointments, not all of them but I would sixty, seventy percent of them are good quality appointments.
Peter (PS4NE) [566] Right.
Jack (PS4NJ) [567] And there's been a lot of them lately.
[568] We've, I don't know if everyone's worked the same system, but we're back on the old appointment system.
Peter (PS4NE) [569] Yes
Jack (PS4NJ) [570] Which d , which works in Durham depot but it might not work in or Milton or wherever, but it works in Durham depot right, so that's the way we're working together now, Jane and Linda who work
Peter (PS4NE) [571] And you've all shared haven't you?
Jack (PS4NJ) [572] Yes, three years on, Linda's earned her badge, and the following week that's three years on Jane's badge, and two on Linda's you know, so that's the way it's worked, it's worked very well.
Peter (PS4NE) [573] That's right, well that's takes up a good deal of time.
Linda (PS4NL) [574] Yes, but sometimes it doesn't work like that you know, sometimes I'm having to go in Jane's area, I mean like, for instance, we got a phone call last week about the alarm.
[575] We were straight in there ringing people, you know have you got any problems, listening you know to this and that, and the next morning we were in ringing, and Jack would ring in, and we'd say, look at know you're at Gateshead, but can you go to Newton Aycliffe?
Jack (PS4NJ) [576] That's right.
Linda (PS4NL) [577] Which is totally the wrong, but if we didn't go there we wouldn't get it.
Peter (PS4NE) [578] [...] who wouldn't to that.
Linda (PS4NL) [579] So maybe that afternoon he'd only get two calls done, but at least we gain more business out of it.
Peter (PS4NE) [580] Super, so we, we need to recognise don't we that it's a very immediate business.
[581] It's sales driven, O K, we're not going to say that nobody else is important, we need all the other members of the, the company, but it is sales driven, O K, it's what it's made of.
[582] It's very immediate, we need to be able often to change tack at a, a half a day's notice, sometimes a minute's notice, sometimes half a day, so there's that little problem as well.
[583] One of the points you're making there which is an excellent one, and a very strong point, is the fact that you get a lot of incoming calls which we encourage,
Linda (PS4NL) [584] Yes, that's right.
Peter (PS4NE) [585] It's part of the company's image,
Linda (PS4NL) [586] We're not saying that you don't like that.
Peter (PS4NE) [587] You may say that we, we'd like to do away with the incoming calls but, to a degree, it encouraging them, so what else does it show Jack, or is that the two main points?
Jack (PS4NJ) [588] Well, er, it shows three hours erm, every morning cold calling.
Peter (PS4NE) [589] Cold calling?
Jack (PS4NJ) [590] Cold calling,
Peter (PS4NE) [591] Right,
Jack (PS4NJ) [592] Yes, and that's obviously where she's getting, we're getting new business from.
Peter (PS4NE) [593] Yes
Jack (PS4NJ) [594] It's a must really isn't it?
[595] Erm, the break down's good, customer care, B M S obviously, erm, a few hours spent, and erm, mailshots, an hour spent or so on mailshots.
[596] But er, I cannae really fault the two girls I've worked with
Peter (PS4NE) [597] But I, we're not trying to, no, no
Jack (PS4NJ) [598] I know how busy they are when I come off the road off a night, and I know busy because they are before I go out on a morning, and erm, it seems like they're never likely to get stuck from time to time though.
Peter (PS4NE) [599] Don't get me wrong on this, this is not in any way, shape or form meant to be a criticism, what we're trying to do here is to sit down and say that by tomorrow night, can we organise ourselves any better.
[600] If we can't, then O K, then that's no problem, but can we organise ourselves any better.
[601] And if we can, we're only looking to improve ourselves by five percent we're not looking to improve, or increase double sales next week are we?
[602] What we're trying to do is say look, you are senior people in this company because although you've only been here a short period of time, but you're still very senior people.
[603] And in the depots, when you are in the depot, people are cutting them, and if that's the case, we, all of you, just remember [...] , what we did, right just being as critical as we can of one another, to alter the way in which behave, but it's not meant in any way, shape or form to be a criticism.
[604] Thank you for your honesty there.
[605] Is, is, is that four or is that
Jack (PS4NJ) [606] I, I, I think this must be the hardest business to plan around in the market place Peter, because at the end of the day you're chasing business, you, you're looking for business and if I've got an account, I'll be honest with you, if I've got an account tomorrow or, that rings in and it's in for sort of Friday, yes, and that should be there, and I'm out of the area Friday, I'll go across and get that business, I'd go out of my area and get that business,
Peter (PS4NE) [607] That's right.
Jack (PS4NJ) [608] And, and it's hard to plan around it.
[609] You can try if you, if you make yourself [...] but if you're trying to stick to a [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [610] Yes, we're going to see as part, as part of our time together, we're going to see a couple of films and you're going to enjoy those I'm sure.
[611] Erm, they're called the unorganised manager, erm, and the one, there are in fact four in the series, but we only see two of them.
[612] The first one is called Damnation.
[613] Erm, and it shows a very unorganised person, the second one is called Salvation, by then of course the person is very much better organised as a team.
[614] And one thing we will learn from it I think, if we're honest with ourselves, and we put, and try and save up and have a piece on the end there, but the one thing I think we will perhaps come to, and the one conclusion we may come to, is the fact that whilst we, we do live in this world and I absolutely agree that if somebody says, look I need to see a new [...] as well, I need to see you now, or I need to see you tomorrow, that'll be difficult, O K, and that's the immediacy of the business.
[615] The fact that if somebody's got parcels they want moving, they haven't got parcels they want moving next Monday, they've got parcels that want moving today.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [616] It's results orientated.
Peter (PS4NE) [617] Absolutely.
[618] So what we need to do is to recognise that as a witness of that, of the way in which we work, because it is.
[619] We ain't going to have an organised workload, we are not computer operators, what we are is salesmen.
[620] Right, very busy.
[621] So that's what we do, it's got to be recognise that as a, as a strength and a weakness in what we do, we can get quite a lot out of this club today.
[622] What, what about you then, er, you two, Roy and Jane.
Peter (PS4NE) [623] Well, it
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [624] It's really [...] , to say that you, the very obvious thing is that there's only a sort of a certain amount of quality hours in a day whereby selling is perhaps better.
Peter (PS4NE) [625] Right, what are they?
Peter (PS4NE) [626] Well, obviously nine until ten, ten until eleven, eleven until twelve.
Peter (PS4NE) [627] Right, so you've got sort of nine to midday [...] ?
Peter (PS4NE) [628] Yes, alright, yes, I mean I haven't done it like that, I've got to analyse it through green, when I actually was aware that I was stopping doing my B M S and had to do something else for whatever reason.
[629] I think the main thing is there's about six hours sort of realistically speaking of really good quality hours to be on your B M S set during the day, and just to sort of add up the hours that you are actually on the phone making outgoing calls, sort of brings it home to you.
[630] I mean one day, I mean I was in a customer care meeting for three hours on Monday [...] , so obviously I lost some there, but you know, that particular day I was on a, just on the phone personally on my B M S for just over three hours, and just looking at the other things that I had to deal with.
[631] You know, I was on the phone to a customer for fifteen to twenty minutes because they'd had a bad experience and I was actually making an appointment for Roy to go in and that twenty minutes is a long time, and I think really if anything, it's just brought to me really, [...] , how little time sometimes, it's not always the case, it does vary, that, depending on the incoming calls, depending if you've got got through the emerging paperwork for whatever reason, how little quality time perhaps you do actually spend on the phone, making outgoing calls to sell.
Peter (PS4NE) [632] [...] just added it up and sort of like if you take twenty, if you take an hour as being seven days, erm,twe ,twe , twenty one hours, and what have you got the total there, three, eight, eleven, eleven and a half hours selling out of the whole of that, actual selling on your B M S, well they'll give the things that we both disagree are important, and then you do get chance to do the selling what we're predominately;
Peter (PS4NE) [633] It, it's organising yourself really, it's not easy.
[634] That here's this discussion with you before I know some of you, but the very nature of the salesman, doesn't lend himself very well to being organised.
[635] If, if you like the characteristics which you will show most of, and we'll do a little team characteristics test a bit later this morning, but the characteristics which you will show most of are one, that you are fairly gregarious person, you like being the, the salesman is a, a loner and be quite a lot more to life, so you're fairly gregarious people, and even though there are degrees of it, you're all fairly extrovert people as well, and those two characteristics don't lend themselves very well to being organised.
[636] Now if you are an extrovert and gregarious person like Jane and a Sagittarian, then perhaps we have something going for us, but it's very, very unusual, for people to be organised and sales orientated.
[637] It doesn't happen very often.
[638] If you, if you wait for a report from a salesman, you can wait for a very long time, the only piece of paper he really likes filling in is called an expense sheet.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [639] And, and most of the other bits of paper are very, very, very different.
[640] We, we do find it as a, as a group very difficult to organise ourselves and for us to have some time to sit down together and feed off one another and talk about it so this is quite, that's quite hopeful, and I think that does show erm, something the same as er, I'm sure Jack would say the same thing, like here we are, you know, we've got all the incoming calls, we've got all the other stuff to do, and what we're actually doing when we're trying to make appointments and so on is we, we fit it in, because we're half way through [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [641] [...] Even though you got to, you've to do those things, they're an important facet of the job itself
Peter (PS4NE) [642] Well yes, they've got to be done.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [643] yes, they've got to be done.
Jack (PS4NJ) [644] Peter, can I just say one thing, I've er, erm, Jane don't get me wrong I'm not nit-picking right, but obviously erm, it must be er, the ideal time to cold call, nine to twelve, because Jane's got cold calling down and Linda, from nine to twelve.
[645] But surely general managers should use a little bit of initiative within, in the planning as well.
[646] He's put, he's put a customer care meeting on from nine o'clock till twelve, I would have wanted one thirty for one and half hours.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [647] No it's eight to eleven.
Jack (PS4NJ) [648] Sorry
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [649] It's eight to eleven.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [650] Some of them were [...]
Jack (PS4NJ) [651] yes, eight to eleven you get out there and sit down in your choice time
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [652] Well it was really meant to go on from eight till half nine, ten o'clock which wasn't quite so bad.
Jack (PS4NJ) [653] Yes, I mean,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [654] And it doesn't happen very often, it was more a one-off, but it was also very necessary, because of the different types of jobs, it, it wasn't just sales people sitting in there, it's was people different departments, cab drivers from outside and we had, yes,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [655] We had the engineers up, but we had everyone, but ours started at one thirty
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [656] Yes, we had drivers that had to do sort of timed deliveries or whatever in the morning, and they, so basically that was the time.
Peter (PS4NE) [657] I think, I think it's a good point though so
Jack (PS4NJ) [658] I mean, all I, all I'm saying is we've all had drivers there, and depot managers and operations managers and the the people [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [659] but you would be the one that got it wrong at the end of the week if you didn't [...]
Jack (PS4NJ) [660] You see the problem again is that, is the same as it is for anybody, next week is just planning, as it were, you know, this is what it's about, why did the general management not sit down and say, oh that's peak time to have them out we cannot have all them indoors in there from, that's a full morning.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [661] I wasn't going to finish until now, I'm on this
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [662] [laughing] No exactly, exactly []
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [663] Alright, no, we've got er, I don't a bit down game, that's wrong, you know your territory, do you just have one territory, Jack?
Jack (PS4NJ) [664] Yes, no we have two.
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [665] Yes you have you have a territory each, yes, because it's er, er, it's we, we've got quite a large territory, haven't we?
[666] We're like, we account for probably over nearly forty percent of revenue from the depot this [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [667] Well you drive to Hull before you start with.
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [668] Well I, I no, I'd never get anywhere local actually, just send me to Grimsby or somewhere like that, but no, I've got [...] , but Derbyshire, all of Derbyshire.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [669] Are they sort of civilised there?
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [670] Yes, yes, and then Barnsley, so I can still get a bit of a rough [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [671] Oh Barnsley, [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [672] [laugh] , [...]
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [673] But because we, we sort of account for just our territory, it's core territory, and our territory accounts for forty percent of revenue, there's an awful lot of accounts registered, so Jenny doesn't get any, hardly any time at all to actually go off and [...] , and do any cold calling or anything like that, it's all B M S.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [674] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [675] Right, so
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [676] A lot of the time you know, it, it's good in one respect that they're all in [...] , you know and that sort of thing, so if any leads come they sort of come together, you know that sort of thing, but it means that, quite a lot like, [...] routine on B M S.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [677] It does, that's right.
Whitwerth (PS4NF) [678] But also you can get, you know you, you sometimes you can fall lucky and get quite a lot of prices from cold calling as much as reviewing this one little, renewing every, every six weeks and trying to think of something to say that you haven't said before, like I hadn't told you or Pete, you know, things like that.
[679] But as far as aim is with, on a typical day, say if I get out of the depot at quarter to nine, if you like, and look at today's string, I go to Derby.
[680] Er, it takes me an hour to get there, if I'm lucky now at roadworks and charging time in one day, is like an hour to patch, then you're out on to the patch, in between appointments running about because Derby's quite a big area, er, again if you've got to cover an appointment in Matlock and you're in Derby in the morning you're talking a good forty five minute run to get there.
[681] Er, then back to depot in forty five minutes because you work your way back up you know, towards, back towards the depot, you're talking three hours forty five minutes, and exactly half your time is just spent on the road.
[682] You know, if, it depends on what area you cover, Manchester might be a bit more condensed.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [683] It doesn't,
Peter (PS4NE) [684] What, what we will prove to ourselves if we want to is it doesn't matter where you work, the amount of time that a salesmen spends driving about in his car is almost exactly the same regardless of where he works.
[685] That if you work in the big city you might only have seven miles between calls but it still takes you three quarters of an hour.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [686] yes
Peter (PS4NE) [687] Er, and, and it, one, one of the things which I hope that we can agree upon is that the is, is that one of the things we can do by organising our time better is get an extra sales call in a day.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [688] Mm
Peter (PS4NE) [689] We can do it, and if you do, I don't know, say five calls a day, let us say because I'm not making any rules, erm, if you could six calls day, without any doubt it would increase your sales by twenty percent, it'd be good that.
[690] And one of the things that we do need to look at is, that is almost every salesman that I've ever measured and almost every bit of research I've ever seen, suggested that every salesman in the world, spends at least a third of his time driving about in his car.
[691] And you don't have to improve that by much, that's what I'm saying, you know, cutting down on your lunch time, don't do it, but er, and I take the point that you, you made Jenny which is an excellent one, that here we are, we've got this great swath of companies that [...] , this great swath of companies, and the amount of time that we can actually spend er, doing cold calls or other things that we'd like to do, er, is governed by something else.
[692] And there's no way that we are going to be in a position to change your world, but we're going to be able to change it slightly, not change it totally, [...] .
Mark (PS4NH) [693] Yes, I mean, just say going back to [...] , I've actually got a map now included in the diary, and a picture of where I live and where the depot is, and so I change my journey by day, and quartered it down.
Mary (PS4NG) [694] Quartered it, it's in four quarters.
Peter (PS4NE) [695] A bit like the buzzard, that's right, yes.
Mary (PS4NG) [696] And we do sort of on each day, sort of Nuneaton, [...]
Mark (PS4NH) [697] We do one a day.
Peter (PS4NE) [698] Right, yes, it is important you see isn't it?, because one of things that happens also I think is, is that we tend to see a motorway and we tend to see a call one side it, and a call the other side, and work on the assumption that we can actually get across the motorway there, or under the motorway there, but sometimes you can't can you?
[699] And so you're, er, have actually, you're at [...] or whatever, erm, it would be nice to think, and I'm not exactly sure, my geography's not that good at that particular part, but you, you sort of tend to look at it, and say, right if he's in and out, and it's ten o'clock and somebody says they can see him at eleven, you know, and there's this tendency, to say, well erm, O K. Yes?
[700] We've all done that one, haven't we?
Jack (PS4NJ) [701] It's the subject what the indoor sales didn't take, it's to do with the geography.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [702] Jack let me tell you, I'll tell you a story shall I?
[703] On the first foundation course that people do in this company, the one thing that I do, is I give them a map of the United Kingdom, and it's got thirty dots on it.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [704] Oh yes [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [705] And it is, I put up on the screen there where the depots are so they know what they're looking for, and I say, now what I want you to is tell me where the depots are.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [706] You know the depots where you are.
Peter (PS4NE) [707] It's absolutely terrifying.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [708] It is.
Peter (PS4NE) [709] I mean it's no wonder they can't find their way out of London.
[710] Where shall we go [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [711] It's no wonder you can't find a sales rep. on their way round Birmingham because they don't even know where bloody Birmingham is some of them.
[712] And, and
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [713] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [714] And er, it's absolutely terrifying that, you know, the, the geography, they know where [...] is, but er,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [715] But Birmingham.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [716] Please can we not use [...] .
Peter (PS4NE) [717] Oh yes, yes you know where you work in the Derbyshire Peaks, I had a guide here a few weeks ago, and I kept it, it's upstairs, and it actually put the English Channel going up there, the Peak District.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [718] I said, there's been a lot of flooding in Norwich.
Peter (PS4NE) [719] Well that's right [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [720] Particularly the Pennines.
Peter (PS4NE) [721] But erm, it's, it's terrifying, and when we get, as and Jack's made a good point and, and it is a good one, that perhaps if we spent only half a day when somebody joins the depot and said to them, this is the geography of our depot, and this is where everywhere is, and this is how you get from one side of it to the other.
[722] I know there's a motorway running down the middle but you can't over or under it, for thirty miles there, so if you've got to get across there, you have to do this, come all out, you know, and that is an hour's run.
[723] And I wonder, if our world would improve if we did that.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [724] I think a lot of it is a case of pressure Peter, you know if the girls want to make twenty five appointments that week, if they've got an appointment, yes, I'll have it in, regardless of where it was, they would.
[725] That wouldn't bother me, honestly.
Peter (PS4NE) [726] Is that er, [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [727] It's the targets, you don't want to be in a position where you can't pick and choose.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [728] Exactly and once you get that appointment on the phone that you wanted, erm, they'll look at the day, you'll take it regardless.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [729] Yes, you see the thing is one appointment can cock up your whole system, because if it like you said, if one, if a customer does happen to call in and say, look I need somebody in here desperately, when do you want it, when it's smack in the middle, it's not the other side of the world, but you know he's in Nuneaton or something, well you still have to go out and see him .
Peter (PS4NE) [730] [...] , right, I've got to see him, that's right, right, ... that's right, and yet you see, if this guy desperately needs to see you and you say, I can't be there until five o'clock, he'd still see you at five o'clock.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [731] Yes he might do, ... he might say that, he might not
Peter (PS4NE) [732] But what we do, because we are the people we are, [...] , and er, it happens every time, we've got [...] salesmen, and I'm talking about [...] salesmen, who will get over to see somebody and get something signed up, they called you or whatever it was, [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [733] Whatever that one was, and, and coming rushing out of the place waiving your hand, and nothing ever happens, the guy never sends is.
[734] You know, but we're ever so excited it because we've sold some, or we get him a [...] , and we get excited by this, and he knows we're after that.
[735] Go on that's it, see that, we've got an appointment, you know, well I know he's in, I know he's in Birmingham at ten, well he'll make it to Stafford by half past, half past or quarter to eleven, won't he, he'll do that?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [736] Over the top of Birmingham, round here round there, oh he'll do that easy.
[737] Could have done it in [...] , couldn't he?
[738] And, and if you're right, it's pressure all the time, isn't it?
[739] We ain't got time to think about it, I haven't got time for all that.
[740] I've got a classic on the T V in a few, in perhaps a hour's time.
[741] I haven't got time to plan it, I'd better get on with it.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [742] I've got to laugh.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [743] Sometimes you're called in that many times in the, I mean, they put the phone down y , on you, do you know what I mean, and it's actually getting to speak to the person is just a ... total shock.
Peter (PS4NE) [744] That's right, that's right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [745] I mean I actually had somebody last Friday, they told me what to do, a four letter word, they told me what to do, and put the phone down.
Peter (PS4NE) [746] yes, right, yes.
Jack (PS4NJ) [747] That was our depot that. [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [748] [laugh] , no she did, she I didn't even say who I was, she just knew the way I spoke she said you're from T N T aren't you?
[749] I've got two words to say to you, and she said them and put the phone down.
Jack (PS4NJ) [750] She said are you going to leave, she said.
Peter (PS4NE) [751] yes, yes, that's right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [752] She I said, we may not ring them back [laugh]
Jack (PS4NJ) [753] Come, come back to the appointments and I'll ask you girls from here, I think what we've got to do in our depot and I mean everybody's doing it, but what, erm, I've asked Jane and er, Linda to do is, try and get the appointments, I know it's hard to, to A M or P M.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [754] Yes, Yes,
Jack (PS4NJ) [755] It's always it's timed appointments what beats you.
[756] You've got to be over there for eleven o'clock and you've had it after that to get anywhere else
Peter (PS4NE) [757] yes, yes, [...] , that's right.
Linda (PS4NL) [758] You need to time it, and I really
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [759] You see it becomes tougher, you see it becomes tougher,, it becomes tougher the more successful you become.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [760] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [761] You see when you first start, you've only got three appointments anyway, so you can do one at ten o'clock and one at four can't you?
[762] Because you know exactly what you've got.
[763] But as you become more successful and you know you, you're team are more successful, you know then that you could in fact, if you like, get doing er, a sales interview every hour an half during the day, every hour sometimes.
[764] Er, and you start pressurising yourself all day, and it's the old story, I haven't got time for planning, I'd better get on with it.
[765] And er, and, and hopefully we'll discuss it, I'll take down, what's his name?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [766] To be fair, you start cramming calls in, you start thinking, oh I can do that one, [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [767] Yes, because it's, it's what is it, I know er, exactly what you do, you can't, you know
Linda (PS4NL) [768] I do, I mean I do that when I erm,y , you're so excited about getting a gain on the appointment and you think, why he's got about five in there, and then you think there's a big space between them, but you think, no I'm not going onto next week because you might not be interested then, but you do, you end up putting it down so they, so it's still in their mind and that's the, the way I work and it's probably wrong, it's probably wrong, I mean I don't
Jack (PS4NJ) [769] That's right, it's different for different people over there, I mean Mark over there who hasn't been with the company very long erm, I mean, my existing calls I mean I, I know them sort of to, to drink with more or less you know, but
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Jack (PS4NJ) [770] I know them, I mean I can sit and have a conversation, I know their hobbies and what have you,
Peter (PS4NE) [771] Right.
Jack (PS4NJ) [772] Sit down and they, they swear to me when they're talking to me and what have you, you know, but we can go into them without appointments, you know, we can work them in between.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [773] yes, that's right.
Jack (PS4NJ) [774] Where if you're fairly new, you don't know them people, you might be thinking you have to have a timed appointment to go in with, where you'll save a lot of time by just building up, and working on your existing like that.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [775] That's a case of, it happens in all walks of life, isn't it?
[776] The guy who's been in the business or been in the same patch or whatever it is for a long time,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [777] That's where you begin
Peter (PS4NE) [778] That's right, that's how you become very successful, erm, and you become very successful because of the fact that the people know you are there to solve their problems.
[779] You are known as the team [...] .
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [780] Yes, I was just going to say you can do that with, like if you go, it takes you a long time to do it with prospects, they know you over the years, so you can just walk in.
Peter (PS4NE) [781] Oh yes, I used to be known in, in, in, in my area as the kitchen man, you know, and sort of, people used to talk in the pubs and they'd say, oh well you know, my missus wants a new kitchen.
[782] Why don't you talk to people in the streets [...] , you're the parcels man ain't you?
[783] Yes, they all know him, you all know Johnny don't you?
[784] Part of, part of the furniture [...] , yes what do you want, there's no problem with parcels [...] , and so again it becomes far less difficult to discuss erm, a business conversation, and sometimes it's a conversation about football, and they're all a load of complete [...] , because that's part of, er, that's one of the joys of er, er, having been doing something for long enough to have got known within the, within the patch.
[785] What have you got Mary, er, what does yours show?
Mary (PS4NG) [786] Right, since I've taken over my territory the first thing I've seen, I've got to educate my customers as in paperwork.
Peter (PS4NE) [787] Right.
Mary (PS4NG) [788] They ring me up and say, [...] , all we have is ten boxes to go, er, to all those different places, here's all the addresses, thanks love, bye.
Peter (PS4NE) [789] Right, [...]
Mary (PS4NG) [790] And they leave me to sign the post, the paperwork, run up and down the stairs, doing this, that and the other, talking to, my things across here are training sessions, incoming, tea card collection because my collections are usually like they're a part-timer, and phone calls from reception, oh, you can take it.
[791] Right, yes, I can, problems and queries, paperwork, customer [...] are sending out paperwork at the end of the day, and like faxing the appointments, contracts, fill out the appointments forms, etcetera, so you've got all these bits done.
Peter (PS4NE) [792] Right, yes.
Mary (PS4NG) [793] So I'm spending just exactly as much time on incoming and tea card collections, as erm, as I am on my training.
[794] It's frightening I think, what we're doing.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [795] I'm the same, erm, I spend as much as time driving as I do sitting in stock
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [796] Tell me about it.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [797] And there's another [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Mary (PS4NG) [798] And it's frightening, but I, I mean, I know from my days at British Telecom, I'd say I was on that phone, really [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [799] Oh yes, of course you are
Mary (PS4NG) [800] Three and half hours, but looking at the time log, and it'll say I was on there for an hour actually speaking on the phone.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [801] Yes, that's right, because after that you might, you are [...] , because you can't really, [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [802] Yes, because you didn't realise [...]
Mary (PS4NG) [803] And that's what makes, that's how it is, that's the only, only step I had on the way you know what you're doing.
[804] You go that's where it rose, and that rose six [...] .
Peter (PS4NE) [805] I've been on the phone since nine o'clock this morning
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [806] [...] , [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [807] That's right, now, ... y , you know very well, some of you again, forgive me if I'm repeating something we've talked about before, but we've actually used this as an example, haven't we?
[808] That it's almost impossible for the human brain to concentrate for more than ten minutes of time on any
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [809] Yes.
Peter (PS4NE) [810] Because what it does, it just gets fed up of doing it,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [811] yes, and you just [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [812] And so what it does after the first ten minutes, it says, look I've had enough of this, what's the grey haired old bugger on about now, oh [...] ,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [813] And often you forget, and your brain flies off somewhere to do something else, I fancied that bird last night, God the beer's rough in that bloody hotel, I wonder what that, I wonder how they're doing up at the depot?
[814] Hey, I wonder if that call's come through?
[815] And so on, and all these things happen.
[816] If things don't give way before tomorrow I'm going to have to [...] , it's bloody half past seven when I get home, and I want to be in the pub you see, but whatever, all these things happen.
[817] God I haven't done filling in these expense accounts, I haven't done me [...] course, I haven't got the.
[818] Look that will happen to everybody in this room and everybody outside.
[819] It's not an exact ten minutes, it's not an exact six hundred seconds, but what it is, is round about that period of time, after about ten minutes, what you do is you switch off and you go and do something else.
[820] Now in this room I see it happening all the time, and if you're doing something important, then I can bring you back into it can't I?
[821] Jane [...] , oh Jane's [...] , she said that because I haven't got enough time, only I haven't [...] , I'm not listening to what he's saying, oh, this is important, and then you go off again.
[822] That's alright I hope, if you can cope with that but, if, if I would be a just a little bit upset if all thirteen of you went off together or eleven of you.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [823] If you all disappeared together that would be, that is a fair criticism of the training department [...] , but if it's just the fact that all you're doing is switching off then that's O K because you can't help it anyway.
[824] Now, it happens in your working day.
[825] Unfortunately it happens at seventy, and eighty, and ninety mile an hour of motorway, you just switch off don't you?
[826] You don't even think about it.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [827] Oh nothing happens until the red lights go on do they?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [828] Until you realise, [...] , God am I here?
Peter (PS4NE) [829] Yes, that's right, I mean it's that most of you, most of you can, most of you can arrive at work in the morning and if somebody says what the traffic's like you wouldn't know, because you don't know how you got there.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [830] [laugh] , [clapping]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [831] That's the car actually doing that, is it [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [832] Yes, well this paper
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [833] How many of you have read a chapter of a book, and when you got to the end of it, thought what the hell was that about?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [834] Yes
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [835] Yes
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [836] Yes, because you're thinking about other things.
Peter (PS4NE) [837] You're doing something else.
[838] Now it happens all the time, and there is absolutely no way at all with the best will in the world, and I'm sure that we all mean it, that we get on the phones at nine o'clock, and we get on the phones at eleven o'clock, you just don't work like that.
[839] That what happens after the first ten minutes, you have to go and do something else, then what happens, you physically get up and do, but you will do something else.
[840] Now that's just observing people who are stationary, if you observed the outdoor salesman, then the same thing happens.
[841] Of course it happens, it happens within ten minutes of the start of the sales interview.
[842] You switch off, the guy says something to you, you don't even hear it.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [843] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [844] Now the tragedy is of course, is it's happening the other side of the table as well isn't it?
[845] You're saying something really amateur dramatic, he don't even hear it, he's somewhere else.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [846] And it's the reason why often, salesmen will come in and they'll say, this guy's visiting on this day of the week, and he sited that [banging table]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [847] He never said that at all.
[848] You heard him say it, I never said that.
[849] I wonder how many letters we get in the course of a month, ... Chris and Chris , Colin , Andrew , I wonder how many letters they get in the course of a month, which start of with the famous words, your salesman said ... because this is what they go out to say.
[850] It's not that he didn't say it, but he was somewhere else at the time, and he just heard the bit of it, he heard the back end of it.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [851] It's also making clear isn't it, as well?
Peter (PS4NE) [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [852] And then you say, oh I'll ring before them before ten thirty, but you don't say ring
Peter (PS4NE) [853] But it costs you more than that, that's right
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [854] They say oh right, [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [855] Or they, that's right, and then of course there's the jargon isn't there?
[856] You know, all the preening that you do, we all have our preening, it's not as though, it's you that's
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [857] that's wallpapering.
[858] I'm not going to go into that, but what I'm saying is we need to recognise this, because if you do recognise it, it makes life that much easier, does that.
[859] That will suit you, or it ain't happening, it can't.
[860] What else have you got, have you finished your course because you were making appointments [...] on that?
Mary (PS4NG) [861] yes
Peter (PS4NE) [862] What did you do?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [863] Erm, switched off
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [laugh]
Peter (PS4NE) [864] Well we've all done that.
Mary (PS4NG) [865] Well we were talking about timing for people, you're the same time in your car as you are in [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [866] That's right, yes
Peter (PS4NE) [867] That's right, it's, we jumped onto [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [868] I spend four hours, just under four hours a day seeing customers, you know, out of a nine or ten hour day, I find that frightening.
Peter (PS4NE) [869] I wonder how much time out of that four hours is actually spent selling.
[870] One hour.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [871] Yes
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [872] yes
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [873] It's got to happen.
Jack (PS4NJ) [874] I bet it's less.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [875] I bet it's less, yes.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [876] I've broke mine down to some of the actual presentations in [...] , and most of the time is, is either raising fact finding, or problem solving.
Peter (PS4NE) [877] Look how much time you actually sit in the reception for them.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [878] Twenty five minutes,
Peter (PS4NE) [879] That's right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [880] You know, I'm three hours
Peter (PS4NE) [881] With the best will in the world, but you, do you see where we're working, what's against that total,
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [882] yes, yes.
Peter (PS4NE) [883] With the best will in the world, it doesn't matter how organised we are, we can improve it a bit.
[884] But we can't improve it, not unless we know where the problems are, and some of the problems are caused by the, by the very nature of the business, and that's a problem area.
[885] The very nature of the business says you can't have a nine till five job or whatever it is, you don't work, I don't think
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [886] It's also standards, like the poor receptionist, she says, you know like yesterday, she's trying to put a call through, [...] , and it didn't get through, she says I've got to try and answer that phone within four rings.
Peter (PS4NE) [887] That's right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [888] And she's got five holding, and she's absolutely panic- stricken, you might just ... oh right, buzz, ... you know
Peter (PS4NE) [889] That's right.
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [890] And you know, oh, it's work, but what do you do?
[891] With [...] what do you do?
Peter (PS4NE) [892] Well, er ... it's not what you can't, you've got to [...]
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [893] Exactly
Peter (PS4NE) [894] And I, and I think that in, in most depots there ain't that much fat is there?
[895] Well some people that are like me, but there ain't that much fat, that says right, we can now afford to, you know, that person's er, er, you know got a lot of free time, there ain't any of them any more is there?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [896] No
Peter (PS4NE) [897] And [clears throat] , and so what we've got to do is organise ourselves so that we spend more of our time, ensure, actually doing the things which actually do what the business does.
[898] And what the business does, is what?
[899] What does T N T Express do?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [900] It delivers parcels
Peter (PS4NE) [901] It delivers parcels and guarantees overnight.
[902] What we have to do is start looking at all the things that make that possible and try and do something else for all the things that don't help you fill it.
[903] Now that is, it's easy from here, to pick a case, sat here and try and undo it, but that's what we're going to talk about during our time.
[904] Right, thanks for that, we'll, we'll come back to that.
[905] ... What does [clears throat] the likelihood be?
[906] Perhaps first off, I could give you all, er, you've all filled in one of these evaluation sheets before on a course haven't you?
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [907] Yes
Peter (PS4NE) [908] Right, so if I can give each of you one of these because that's what I want to use these
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [...]
Peter (PS4NE) [909] So just put the, the course name in Team Focus, your own name, if you know what that is, the date is the
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [910] The tenth.
Peter (PS4NE) [911] The tenth of February, and where it says objectives, if you have any specific objectives then you can write those in but ...
Unknown speaker (JSNPSUNK) [912] I should have worked out how to do this I should think now. ...