| PS4UJ | Ag2 | m | (Wayne, age 30, general manager of racecourse) unspecified |
| PS4UK | Ag3 | m | (Mike, age 40+, steward at racecourse) unspecified |
| PS4UL | Ag2 | f | (Mandy, age 28, secretary at racecourse) unspecified |
| JT9PSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| JT9PSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[1] ... your duty. [2] What is your position ... in all of this. [3] Are you ... [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[4] regarding this you mean? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[5] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[6] We ... there's Don and myself [...] two individuals who have been on the course for incident training with Fire Brigade. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[7] Right. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[8] That's why we've come to be the two individuals who are, in inverted comma, Responsible for whatever happens during an incident. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[9] How long ago was the course? |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[10] ... . [11] Oh god my certificate's in the office somewhere [laugh] . |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[12] What we talking about? [13] Five years? [14] Four years? |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[15] No no no no it's ... . [16] wha what'll it be about ... er about two years I think [...] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[17] Right. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[18] and that's a shot in the dark [...] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[19] [...] quite a current ... |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[20] Oh yes yes yes |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[21] by all accounts |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[22] we were sent by the racecourse here you see |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[23] Right. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[24] the pair of us on a ... course over there. [25] Erm ... now ... in my wisdom I I thought that ... obviously considering we're now classed as incident stewards the o the thing to do was to put the certificates up in a prominent place so that everybody who visited the site knew who were the incident stewards were . |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[26] Right. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[27] So I left mine to be [...] done with and er where it's gone since then ... is anybody's guess. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[28] Right. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[29] Because it was before just before we moved the offices ... but it's kicking around somewhere in an envelope with my name on the front of it but where I wouldn't know. [30] But Don apparently took his ... |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[31] Right. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[32] but I said to Don, Well I would have thought they have had to have been displayed ... er to support the fact that they do have incident s ... you know trained incident stewards on site. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[33] Did you draw that up? [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[34] Along with erm Robin yes, yeah . |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) | [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[35] It's quite comprehensive isn't it? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[36] Really but er to be out of date |
| Unknown speaker (JT9PSUNK) | [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[37] It's out of date in certain areas, there are cer ... We'd never ... you see ... what we did ... we knocked up a rough copy. [38] Then we e enhanced it and then eventually ... er ... Robin knocked this up you see ... from all the work we'd done, but we never sat down and went through this. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) | [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[39] Now there are one or two little things in here which have become contradictory [...] you look at it but ... he'd alread he'd passed this over to the ... fire service who were very happy with it |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[40] Right. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[41] and that's the way its it left we left it but of course as I ... mentioned to him we'd completely omitted Tats which of course we we we hadn't done Tats at all. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[42] Mhm. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[43] Er erm ... we have since had the alteration in our structure here which of course puts quite a bit of it out of date. ... |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[44] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[45] But i if you you see ... a all he said to me [...] , Tats is closed at the moment, he said er [laugh] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[46] Yeah but [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[47] [...] but Tats is gonna be open in the summer and if anything happen in the summer |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[48] Mind you its its open now because |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[49] W |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[50] the fish and chips are there |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[51] absolutely |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[52] and if there's gonna be a fire it's likely to happen in that fish and chip shop . |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[53] but t ... to me it's the biggest fire risk we've probably got on the site. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[54] Yeah. [55] [sniff] [...] pay attention ... to get the Tats list |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[56] Yeah y yeah yeah yeah |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[57] and and get some money that's ... responsible for Tats. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[58] Yeah. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[59] [...] can't have erm ... Mr doing that cos nobody would understand him would they? [60] So [...] to be a steward or somebody that ... . [61] is generally at that end of things. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[62] I think what we've got to do, one of the things we've got to do is is it's alright talking about ... a steward ... as an A N other, but I think we've gotta know where the A N other is. [63] We don't name him but whoever is in a particular spot should be responsible for a certain area, which ... in in ... fundamentally it is done that in quite a number of instances but I mean one thing that springs to mind is that ... a lady shall clear the ladies toilets. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[64] Mm. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[65] What lady, where from? [66] Who |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[67] [...] specify from one of the bar, a particular bar wasn't it. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[68] Yeah but is there a lady in that bar always? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[69] Generally yes. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[70] Generally. [71] [laughing] But [] ... it it's sods law that it will happen there isn't a lady there behind the bar. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[72] Well, really if there's a fire does it matter whether it's a lady or gent that [...] ? |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[73] I don't think so but we've specified in here a lady shall. [74] [...] see upstairs we say, ... The steward will clear the toilets. ... |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[75] Well what do you reckon Mandy? [76] I mean if you |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[77] [...] matters if it's a |
| Unknown speaker (JT9PSUNK) | [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[78] If if the fire alarms going off and you're in the ladies loo |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) | [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[79] an and a bloke sort of is shouting from the doorway [...] to clear the place |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[80] Mm. [81] I think in a er incident like that I don't it matters whether it's male or female [...] . |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[82] No I I I do agree with you, but I [...] |
| Unknown speaker (JT9PSUNK) | [...] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[83] a lady in there. |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[84] Yeah. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[85] There's only one thing that struck me when I was reading through it but ... a as I say, we we [...] got to look at this from point of view are we going to date this as it lies at the present moment and add to it pieces that we want, or do we start off by having the pieces o i its its now whe w w |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[86] [...] I would have thought first of all we've got to update what we've got as it [...] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[87] Yeah yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[88] I think it's a good document. [89] Secondly then ... we've got to add ... |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[90] To it. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[91] to it. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) | [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[92] The areas that have ... been ... demolished and |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[93] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[94] and |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[95] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[96] changing meeting points and things. [97] The other thing I ... I wasn't sure [...] and this is just my thoughts on it, you are using the stewards as as points where ... they're going to be ... you know coordinating people and everything. [98] With so many visiting stewards all the time we haven't got a regular pattern of of any stewards that's going to be responsible. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[99] A absolutely. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[100] So it's it's all ... in all must be done by staff. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[101] Yeah yeah yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[102] It must be. [103] You cannot rely on stewards because you know they're ... they're not here all the time. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[104] Er what we have got to do you see a as I have said we really got to designate a duty to a position ... |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[105] Mm. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[106] as opposed to an individual, because ... our staff is switching round all the time ... |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[107] Yeah. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[108] [...] the they [...] day staff, so consequently whoever's in a =pec specific position has got to have the responsibilities that go with that position. [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[109] [...] the sta the static point are the bars |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[110] Yeah yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[111] so [...] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[112] That's [...] . |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[113] using Don upstairs [...] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[114] Yeah yeah yeah |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[115] using Ray and Jenny ... |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[116] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[117] and Mike and Geoff |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[118] Yeah yeah that's fine |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[119] and as licensees |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[120] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[121] they're also very much aware about evacuation procedures anyway . |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[122] Yeah yeah yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[123] So ... I think we ought to ... you know use that. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[124] But then you see you've got places like ... the weighing room, jockeys areas which ... basically y you've got temporary staff there, or casual staff. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[125] Erm. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[126] which sometimes does fluctuate, not always. [127] You've got temporary staff on the gates ... |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[128] Right. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[129] erm ... that's why er you know really i it is essential that certainly who ever is going to be in that position knows what [...] . |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[130] Right first of all |
| Unknown speaker (JT9PSUNK) | [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[131] There's one generally static person in the weighing room . |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[132] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[133] That's the clerk of the scales |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[134] Yeah yeah . |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[135] [...] I know he's only casual staff but he's always on the same ... always |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[136] Yeah. |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[137] the same job. [138] ... But yeah, clerk of the scales yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[139] What do you reckon. [140] Ted or the clerk of the scales? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[141] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[142] Not Yeah what do you reckon? [143] Ted or clerk of the scales? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[144] I I think y yes I think this is sensible. [145] Er ... if we can ... put people in positions where we know they're always gonna be there a as a permanent fixture a as part and parcel of their job. [146] So whoever is clerk of the scales [...] bend to his ... [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[147] The poi point about him is he's a he's always based in the same place. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[148] Absolutely, yeah yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[149] Right and ... and he got a radio |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[150] Yes. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[151] so he's in touch with erm everybody because |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[152] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[153] he's got he's got the main radio hasn't he? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[154] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[155] Erm ... so he can be ... a a point to the ... erm ... what am I looking for? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[156] Well really w w we're [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[157] to the [...] of the course. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[158] We merely put the onus on him don't we ... to say, Right if an incident should ... occur it gives you responsibility whether you ... delegate somebody to assist you to make sure that all that area, the jockeys rooms and ... |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[159] Yeah. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[160] e everything [...] . |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[161] Is that all [...] ? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[162] Erm i it it will be covered but ... |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[163] [...] free to do it though cos he isn't [...] ? |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[164] Mm. |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[165] I don't know whether he might be a bit funny about it. [166] I don't know whether it would be a bit better having someone like Ted? [167] ... You know do you know ... |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[168] I know what you mean. |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[169] Do you know what I'm getting at? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[170] yeah. [171] The on the only thing is ... sometimes if you a if you ask some of these people to do these things I know it's not a lot of responsibility but do you reckon it goes to his head? |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[172] Yeah oh yeah I know ... I know what you're saying. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[173] [...] as it is. |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[174] He's the only other sort of like |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[175] Erm. |
| Mandy (PS4UL) |
[176] static ... one there isn't he? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[177] You see now ... all that was left before ... to the office staff. [178] Cos the offices were down there |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[179] It was all adjoining wasn't it? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[180] you see. [181] So it was all you won't find it in here because as erm Robin said, the office staff are there, that'll be the central ... position where everything's happening and they will make sure that the area's clear. [182] ... But now that we've changed the thing we've got to this is something we've got to add into it |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[183] Yeah. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[184] the fact that the offices are no longer there but somebody's gonna have to make sure that all that block is cleared ... and the only person [...] permanent fixture is ... clerk of the scales as you quite rightly said. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[185] Yeah. [186] We'll do it as clerk of the scales and er ... we'll inform him that that's on you know one |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[187] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[188] of his duties as clerk of the scales [...] and we'll have a notice put next to him as well about the procedure |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[189] Yeah. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[190] and give him a copy of all his [...] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[191] Oh yes yes yeah yeah. [192] Now he he will see that the whole of that block is cleared. [193] Not here. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[194] Where would they be evacuated to? [195] To the the paddock? |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[196] The everybody evacuates to the ... paddock area behind the main stand. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[197] Yeah. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[198] Er ... after deliberate first we wondered whether they ought to go through ... onto the racecourse ... and then we decided no probably the best place for them would be ... round the back of the main stand. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[199] Mm. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[200] Erm ... now whether ... in ... by doing this [...] virtually the safes spot but it's the easiest spot to disperse them from and it's the easiest spot to get them to |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[201] Yeah. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[202] the if there's a a large number of people. [203] Er [...] they're ... easily shepherded there because there's no obstructions. [204] If they're going through the course they've got to cross the course, they've got to cross the fences. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[205] Yeah. |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[206] That could create a problem. [207] Erm ... if we're gonna move them out to the back there there's firm standing f to get them out there, the [...] |
| Mike (PS4UK) | [...] |
| Wayne (PS4UJ) |
[208] firm would get there without any great problem ... and once we got them there we can di disperse them without any great ... they're not in the way of essential services if they want to come in. |
| Mike (PS4UK) |
[209] Yeah you're not encouraging people to go to where the cars are being parked. |