| PS5M9 | Ag4 | m | (Storer, age 47, no further information given) unspecified |
| PS5MA | X | m | (Collishan, age unknown, no further information given) unspecified |
| PS5MB | Ag3 | m | (Jeffery, age 38, sergeant) unspecified |
| PS5MC | Ag3 | m | (Mills, age 38, sergeant) unspecified |
| PS5MD | Ag4 | m | (Stone, age 47, inspector) unspecified |
| PS5ME | Ag4 | m | (Williams, age 48, inspector) unspecified |
| PS5MF | Ag4 | m | (Wright, age 47, no further information given) unspecified |
| K6WPSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| K6WPSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[1] management meeting, in the chair is Superintendent Julian . [2] The date is the first of February nineteen ninety-four and it's the crack of dawn. [3] Good morning everybody, thank you all for coming so early. [4] For the purposes of the tape I think er we ought to explain that our management meetings are always run on very serious lines with no, no jokes allowed, er first of all I think we should just place on the record that this meeting is being taped everybody recognises that, and the purposes are for to analyse everybody's linguistic ability and later on Tracy's going to recite her piece her presentation for the purpose of the tape. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[5] An and I I'll keep me mouth shut. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[6] That would make a change [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[7] Sec secondly we must welcome Paul to the meeting, as you know he joined us at the beginning of January to run the neighbourhood watch schemes and as office manager I thought it appropriate he attend the management meetings. [8] Er any apologies, Dave of course who's looking after Yashi Mi Soto all day. [9] I like saying that cos' I've been practising. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[10] I'd like apologise for the room, it's er too cold really. [11] I booked the conference not realising it was gonna be the control room by this time, and then this morning I turned up to find out we can't put the lights on without getting behind the bar, and we can't get behind the bar so that's why this er |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[12] Uh, can I say [...] ten for er effort. [13] [...] for fixing that light. [14] I think it's excellent. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[15] Oh good heavens [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[16] Dear me [...] pass me the spanner. [17] [cough] Right, er minutes of the last meeting has anybody brought them with them. [18] On account of the fact that somebody's mis-filed my folder. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[19] There we are. [20] We've got some. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[21] Er,I I'll skip through it cos' most people haven't got the copies with them, er we looked, you'll remember that the A C C ops meeting thanked us for providing Beeston with a U V lamp for M O T examination. [22] It was a success in so much one did out of fifth M O Ts that prove to be forged and was identified very quickly. [23] Somewhat cheekily that committee came back to us and asked us very nicely would we provide about twenty five for the force, which we thought was a cheek but having said that we've actually looked at it and there may well be a way that we could afford it. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[24] W We've I've already ordered 'em there's forty four wanted actually. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[25] forty four how much is it gonna cost us? |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[26] About erm, you get four for hundred pound, so we're talking |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[27] Four for a hundred pounds, so |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[28] Seven hundred quid then |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[29] Seven hundred quid, that's why Paul's been invited to this meeting. [30] Yes he's right. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[31] Er, work placements, yes Susan Ann and John have started. [32] Are there any major problems with Susan and John at all Tracey? |
| Stone (PS5MD) |
[33] No |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[34] Could you just er speak a bit louder |
| Stone (PS5MD) |
[35] No |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[36] Right |
| Stone (PS5MD) |
[37] None at all |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[38] Am I right in saying that Susan's with us for a full year every Wednesday and John is supposed to be with us for a term but it's been extended hasn't it |
| Stone (PS5MD) |
[39] Yeah but if we can get him onto the computer system [...] he'll do two days a week if he can do it |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[40] Right okay just as a reminder to everybody if they have admin jobs that are pretty basic if we can save them til a Wednesday or a Thursday like photocopying and things like that then they will invariably be able to do those for you. [41] I mean David it will certainly save er Ann standing at the photocopier |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[42] Can I put in a bid I'm working with er er Dave Williams on the launch of this drugs hotline and there's a need to do quite a large mailshot of the posters in the |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[43] right |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[44] in the next couple of weeks, so if we can use them |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[45] right |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[46] to help Ann |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[47] Can you liaise li liaise with Tracey then |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[48] Right okay. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[49] Cos Tracey plans their day. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[50] Yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[51] Erm |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[52] This is a very difficult form to fill in in relation to who's attending the meeting. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[53] [...] which room actually. [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[54] Right, er ... we mentioned at the last meeting that Richard was on our side in our attempts to bring back the schools liaison officers into the fold. [55] The er his report has gone to the policy group it's been talke discussed by them and it now goes to the policy advisory group. [56] We're quite fortunate because there will be four chief superintendents at that meeting to discuss whether or not the S L O's should come back to the centre. [57] David doesn't want them in the first place and he won't argue, I've discussed it with Robin he won't argue, erm Richard who's the only one that could really be regarded as a loser daren't argue 'cos it's his report that recommends we they come back to us, and John won't understand the item so I think we're alright there. [58] [laugh] I think we're almost certainly guaranteed to get the S L O's back into the fold although bearing in mind the recent developments with the C P O's it's unlikely that they will be coming back to the fold. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[59] Can I chip in there. [60] We've had a meeting Paul Keith and myself looking at er planning for the future of management supervision of the S L O's and got a plan together which will [...] regular meetings [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[61] I'll put it under A O B, cos [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[62] Can I mention er that I'm very disappointed that C P O's aren't coming back under the fold I understand the arguments for and against, but when you look at erm the knowledge that two of our new recruits have got, in relation, one in relation to fraud and one in relation to terrorism, it seems ironical that they're divisional staff and can't go round the force giving their expertise force-wide rather than just on er a basic divisional [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[63] Yeah, er well [...] put it under any other business [clears throat] Erm [...] nothing more about that one other to say that we seem to be on course for finishing er about the zero mark which is what we're targetting. [64] Er Jed is keeping records of private security companies that's unchanged, just as a reminder that everybody should keep in touch with him, please. [65] P C Peters actually has moved to force headquarters as you're all aware? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[66] Is that six months? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[67] [laugh] Just for everybody's benefit it is his plan to retire in July although we have had dates before that have run er over with P C Peters ... Erm ... |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[68] I thought he retired in September [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[69] Well, it's he's now [...] he's now got marriage plans |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[70] Oh right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[71] Which er change everything |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[72] This tapes gonna be worth a lot of money isn't it. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[73] Thank you Paul. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[74] Just thought I'd better remind people. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[75] Yes that's an agenda item now. [76] Regular C P O's meetings, have we got one fixed? |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[77] Yes 23rd February. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[78] Right, erm new areas of responsibility Sergeant err, nothing more on that one. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[79] Very [...] Keith was. [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[80] I don't think there's any more items on there that er need updating. [81] Anything on social security at all? |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[82] that's on the agenda |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[83] ... Displays, use of the marquee at gala day ... spending money, er that's coming up later on |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[84] Yes please |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[85] Long term sick, I think we all know now that er Pat is going to be retiring on a pension in er beginning of May is it? |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[86] three months from last week |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[87] And Dave is now cast with the problem of replacing Pat. [88] Er I think that's the end. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[89] Will it be me and Dave that are doing the interviews then, cos he'll be doing the ... what is it the race relations side and no doubt I'll be doing the |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[90] If you want to do it with David then that's fine by me, I 'll leave it to you to discuss with him. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[91] Right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[92] But you need to speak with pers well it's an internal vacancy isn't it, yes and you speak with personnel and they'll rubber stamp the post, or position rather, age? |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[93] Don't any of the existing Sergeants want to take it before it gets advertised outwards I mean I don't but ... |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) | [sigh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[94] David I don't suppose you want to be [...] doing that for |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[95] I think that's it, er three Sergeants spoken for |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[96] [...] Any other sergeants I've forgotten? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[97] Yeah, [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[98] [...] you're sitting right across from one but never mind [laugh] |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[99] [...] he always thinks of you as an Inspector [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[100] Any more points on la last year's agenda that need to be discussed. [101] Thank you very much. [102] Right [...] Item four crime prevention A L O work what is the way forward or backward as the case may be Sergeant |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[103] What does A L O stand for? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[104] David you allowed to hit him [...] now, he's only been one for thrty-eight years. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[105] I've never seen the abbreviation before you see. [106] [laugh] It stands for allo allo allo. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[107] I put this on the agenda erm the [...] phrase at the moment seems to be flagging things up and my concern is opposite Dave is the [...] but as everybody I'm sure is aware we've got erm divisional A L O's based within as Crime Prevention Officers, the main concern for my particular area is Bill although based at has actually for the last three years built up a good working relationship and inspected staff from and . [108] Erm two things now have cropped up number one of course is that there's a fair chance within the next year we're gonna lose Bill anyway through civilianisation, and secondly er the fact that er his boss er Rick has said to him, look I don't want you going up a division any more to do erm A L O work, quite reasonably, he's not being funny about it, it's quite reasonable, cos its [...] mileage. [109] So what I'm saying is erm I happen to think that the A L O stuff is some of the most valuable stuff that we do, it's really one of the main ways forward and if we just sit back and do nothing about it it's gonna just be wiped out at a a swipe. [110] I don't think we're gonna solve it today, but what I'm saying is did we ought to look at some sort of action plan brainstorm, call it what you will for the very near future to look at how we're gonna tackle this problem. [111] If we are gonna tackle it. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[112] This is one of the major problems of the civilianisation program. [113] Er as we know round about July August time, the remaining nine P C's will be er turned into civilians wave of a magic wand the biggest problem there is the total loss of our skills base overnight effectively, the second thing is it'll take a long long time to get them trained particularly in relation to A L O work. [114] Add to that the new guidelines that suggest that all er plans for major developments must go through the hands of an A L O and really we don't have an answer for it, and if we are going to be getting 9 new civilian C P O's they're gonna have their work cut out learning their basic craft before they even develop their A L O skills. [115] It could take a number of years before we get them all on A L O courses and in fact there's no way w I assume there's no way we can put them on A L O courses til they've done a crime prevention course at Is that right David? [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[116] er Yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[117] So we will not have the capacity to deal with A L O work to the extent that we would like, there's no doubt that poor David over there is gonna get a lot more work on his desk as a result of that, and it's just something we're gonna have to live with in the short term. [118] We've flagged up those problems to command and I'm seeing Mr on Tue Tuesday afternoon I think it is, and Jed's put a report into command and I'll put [...] on it as well, and we're saying to them what is the answer? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[119] Em |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[120] There are a number of problems of course highlighted by civilianisation, there will be nobody qualified to do firearms dealers er inspections and inspections of firearms ranges and so we've put a report in saying would you please tell us who's gonna do it, which department will take on responsibility for it. [121] And I think the way forward is perhaps to have a meeting with R and D and for them to come to us and discuss with us the aspects of work that we will not be in a position to do come the revolution. [122] In fact I've put it in that report haven't I? |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[123] wouldn't it have been better if they'd done it before [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[124] Yes, right I agree entirely, and one of the points we're making to Mr is that we were never consulted we were merely told this is happening, now we're trying to put the report in in a positive way. [125] We're not saying you can't do it because we're trying to say you need to be aware of these problems because we need to find solutions to some of them, erm and A L O work is definitely one of them, that report from the home office and the D V suggests quite categorically that er that there should be a crime prevention input into all planning applications. [126] Now whether it means that in the short term they all land on your desk, and you give them just a superficial examination I don't know. [127] It's not the way we would like to do it, but |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[128] It will only happen if you do because the credibility |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[129] That's right |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[130] will go straight out the window and they won't bother with us, a very short time it's taken five I mean six years to build up the credibility |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[131] Yep Yep |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[132] For them to start consulting us, now we've done it |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[133] Yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[134] we're [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[135] Yep |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[136] It's just [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[137] That happened that happens with all staff changes where you need a degree of skill its compounded by the fact that all nine will be changed at the same time and as I said before is a total loss of the skills base. [138] And what the force will say to us is that the force has overall priorities and they take precedent and that is to get sixty four P Cs back on the street, and our problems they will be looking to us for imaginative solutions |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[139] But I don't think the force recognise just what this department does up front, in in that way |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[140] er, yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[141] It's alright saying sixty four P Cs on the street end. [142] Wonderful but it doesn't actually mean anything. [143] An and its time that that top corridor were made aware of just what sort of front line work we are doing to save the sixty-four officers on the beat that |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[144] that's right |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[145] need to be there |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[146] yep yep yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[147] in the first place I just find it |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[148] Yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[149] totally |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[150] the decision |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[151] disappointing an and frustrating th that this type of thing is happening, I'm pleased I'm coming to the end of me service because the time will come when somebody's got to speak out, and I think the time has or come when at I can speak out, damn the consequences. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[152] I think public relations is the reason for doing it isn't it and to pacify the politicians, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[153] Yeah but, cos the politicians aren't being made aware of what we're doing |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[154] But nationally and locally because it seems that the answer to crime is, the decision was reached with the Chief Constable and the chairman of the police committee with very little reference to and the deputy and we were not consulted on whether or not it should take place or ask what problems we would encounter we were told it was taking place. [155] In fact it's only recently we had anything on paper telling u in fact we've had nothing on paper other than police committee minutes. [156] And er er sort of phone call one afternoon at half past four from the deputy, oh by the way, in fact if we hadn't been talking to any Brummies on a we would've been interviewing people and telling them that they'd got a three year [...] and these are all points that are gonna be brought up next week, but I don't see there is any possibility of them doing an about turn because they've gone public on it. [157] And they went public on it before consultation. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[158] [...] I L O's than C P O's. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[159] they've been doing that anyway. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[160] It's just that unfortunately C P O's are on a Home Office list that say they are suitable for civilianisation. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[161] Which home office list because |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[162] H M I C |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[163] It's been tried and tested [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[164] H M I C's list so the deputy tells me. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[165] Lincolnshire are following suit. [166] They're just having a just having a review and they've told Mick that his lads are going to be civilianised. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[167] [...] an about turn. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[168] [...] accepted that then. [169] Are we saying as a department therefore that we are just gonna let the wheel come off I L O work. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[170] No we will not have the capacity to do it, other than a superficial examination by David. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[171] Yes |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[172] The only other thing that may be an answer to the question is erm I I know it seems an about face but are we gonna say that er the other two sergeants that are now managers become A L O's and use them in that capacity and train 'em up. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[173] I don't think you've got the opportunity to do that all the time. [174] You might be able to do the odd one but I don't think that you've got the time, I mean bear in mind you've gone from four to three to two there's two of you now supervising all of us if you tell me you've got spare time then great, and you want to do one or two equally great, however ... unless you tell me to the contrary |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[175] Yeah but but the thing is that well, they most probably could do but could do some but what what'd be sacrificed would be the management skills,y you know, and then |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[176] you can't take on board a new commitment like that without shedding something |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[177] No |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[178] and I'd want to know what it was you were going to shed. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[179] Some of these projects I mean just are ongoing, you don't just go to a meeting and |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[180] You don't just put a two page report in and it's resolved it's probably a three month project that you need to go continuously once a week to a trial meeting or or three months once a week to a two hour meeting. [181] I mean some of these projects you're talking about thirty seven million pound projects |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[182] yeah, yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[183] over a five year period, I mean they don't just happen overnight |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[184] Well, if we draw stumps and don't go to them and somebody writes to the Chief Constable and says I'm very disappointed that your force no longer is gone A L O's then I shall be very happy that that letters received by the Chief because we can say well we told you so. [185] We flagged it up, we've now told the force that we can no longer meet our A L O requirements, and that's it's not a question of being awkward, we will not have the the A L O's the A L O's to do it |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[186] It's the members of the police committee at the end of the day that've had endorsed what the chief constable had done, and it's their councils that are gonna suffer. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[187] Well it isn't because th the police committee [...] county councils and the one's |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[188] aye |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[189] [...] of the district councils and the city councils |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[190] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[191] yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[192] I mean, I've worked with the County Council but not on the same sort of budgets as the district councils so they're making decisions that are affecting the districts that they haven't got any means of [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[193] In the long term in the long term. [194] In three years times all of the new C P O's will have been on courses and probably most of them will have been on A L O courses. [195] So in three year's time we'll back to where we are today, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[196] we won't sir |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[197] You will only get one or two A L O courses at most per year, |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[198] Alright, but given time we will eventually build up that skill base again. [199] What we're saying is that in this two three four five year span we're gonna have some real problems, |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[200] It's the contacts |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[201] it really is credibility |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[202] yeah, you're blowing [...] apart as well because we aren't servicing our part of the partnership, cos it's not only just talking about the projects he's bringing in an and getting him involved with projects like that. [203] We're blowing the whole thing out the window, |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[204] Yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[205] So Bill for instance is he to just carry on as if it's ongoing |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[206] Yep |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[207] So is he to be he doesn't know whether to just carry on or to put a stop to it now or what the hell to do |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[208] No he, he must continue doing what he has got time to do. [209] He's a C P O stroke A L O [...] and that's what he should be doing. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[210] But th the thing is that Ashfield and Mansfield are still stra sending him plans |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[211] yep three? [212] [...] We'll have to say sorry Bill you know w send them down to Dave if Dave's got time to pull 'em in he will do, if not we'll you know we'll have to reply negative. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[213] And also, bear in mind that, we can argue this is divisional problems as much as a headquarters C A problem those members of staff are owned by division. [214] Those resources will still be there on division long after July nineteen ninety-four. [215] And it's perhaps up to the new civilian C P O to go to the likes of Mick and say I can't do this, I have not been trained to do it yet, until I have been trained to do it perhaps P C should continue using his skills. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[216] Yes but Bill's hop hoping to go to |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[217] Southall |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[218] mhm |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[219] Which takes him off [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[220] yeah |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[221] They're all gonna [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[222] yeah, but there will still be those nine C P O's somewhere on divisions ... Perhaps it's [...] advantage [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[223] There is no easy answer |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[224] No, but it don't work that way |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[225] I know, know |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[226] Maybe it's the personality [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[227] yeah, |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[228] it's the person in the post as much as the post itself th th that [...] |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[229] I think one thing that we've got to do is [...] Dave's post one is that it's got to be eye levelled and C P O's right? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[230] yep |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[231] and the other thing is that to get this kind of continuity even at one post he's got to work with Dave for at least six months and Dave's going in March next year so we want a A L O in post by September of this year if that's possible. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[232] So we're gotta start talking with personnel in the near future about David's post |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[233] yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[234] right |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[235] don't [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[236] No, but September's |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[237] yeah |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[238] September's er er a latest date really |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[239] so |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[240] six months with you is a minimum |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[241] I'll tell you now we'll never get a six month's overlap |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[242] mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[243] but I shall be asking for one and we'll see what personnel says. [244] It's one way of reminding them how complicated your task is so with six months overlap so we're talking about September aren't we? |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[245] Yeah because he's got to go on a month's course for a start, for just general and then we've got to try and find him a a week's course somewhere as A L O, I don't know where but er in that time. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[246] Look you're going to finish up with nine C P O's and an A L O |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[247] mm |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[248] Why don't you have [...] now to get [...] to come over here. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[249] I've tried they've got no, they're struggling for staff at the moment for external training and the they've said that er |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[250] Why can't they give us I mean Christ I can't do a [...] up there |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[251] Whatever |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[252] out of a five day course, |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[253] do it ourselves |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[254] why don't we er get there erm package and do it ourselves |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[255] Yeah but |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[256] We'd better at doing it ourselves. [257] We've got the expertise, yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[258] I mean it it's only external speakers that we should er I mean they come to the University for a day, I can set that up I mean we can do exactly the same at university. [259] My input over there together with erm who did it last time? erm Norfolk and Stafford the A L O from Norfolk and Stafford [...] erm whatsisname from Stafford so I mean I can't see why we can't |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[260] I think that's a good stop gap |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[261] yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[262] do a five day course ourselves |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[263] You're talking about a five day A L O course now, |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[264] yeah [...] [clears throat] get em get em to do some sort of training |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[265] I mean I know we're we're bodging it again but I mean |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[266] it's better than nothing |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[267] but it's I'd rather see it bodged and some credibility left with district and city councils than er a hole that [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[268] [...] I think it's a priority I do, and |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[269] we can do that towards the end of nineteen ninety-four then couldn't we ourselves |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[270] well soon rather than later |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[271] could do it sort of December January time, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[272] erm |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[273] got to get all these C P Os selected and in post for a start. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[274] I just feel that to rely on Stafford to to to [...] them in there is, they only run A L O courses a year |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[275] Right |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[276] I mean they're probably booked up now for the next three or four years anyway |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[277] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[278] mm |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[279] No they do it year by year |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[280] I know they do Jed but but I mean what I'm saying if priority states other forces have probably been waiting [belch] and rather than us sort of trying |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[281] What I've got I've already booked one this year for Paul in July, well that's a waste of time now, so er at least one of them will be able to go on a ye yer you know there'll be a, there'll either be John |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] [cough] |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[282] [...] or Alan been on the standard course that can go on the A L O course. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[283] mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[284] Let's move forward. [285] We're not gonna get them to change their mind. [286] We've got to make the best of a bad job we've got to find a way of training both C P O's |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[287] [...] change their mind, there must be there must be nine other posts that if they look round they could civilianise not I mean they haven't got to tell the public much it have they you still talk about the same amount of officers being civilianised. [288] I mean er I think if you put a good |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[289] It's been approved by the policy group and it's been approved by police committee. [290] It's unlikely they're going to do an about turn. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[291] It is unlikely but I mean that |
| Storer (PS5M9) | [...] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[292] those decisions were taken through without without the the proper input from the department concerned, but you know I mean surely if we can go with with |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[293] I'll |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[294] a cast iron logical argument you could you could then even phase it over a longer period |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[295] Now that's different you'll not get em to cancel it but to get them to spin it out over a longer period is a possibility and that's what we're gonna be working towards. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[296] I think |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[297] But if we say to them er we can't argue against the principle of civilianisation of C P O's that's been there ad nauseum. [298] That was approved three years ago on policy group, Stuart was there and he he agreed that it was a feasible option to civilianise C P O's. [299] My argument is it's being done all in one go that we're trying to do nine on one day. [300] [clears throat] That evaluation exists in group three |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[301] mm |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[302] It only reached there by Chief Superintendent [...] knew what he was bloody talking about. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[303] mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[304] Well the principal of having civilians as C P O's is one thats been |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[305] accepted nationwide not just force wide. [306] Now having having done that if we were doing three a year I would suggest we can cope with that. [307] My big concern is that nine in one go [...] all at the mini divisions and they're all very much on their own out there, and there's nobody to hold their hand through any for through the probationary period. [308] How do we know at the end of six months whether they are performing well or not. [309] What I've said is that I'd like to see the existing C P O's become divisional staff at the division that they are working now so that the divisional commander can allow them to stay there holding hands with the new civilian C P O for up to six months if necessary because it then becomes a local decision as to when the when the two have that umbilical cut. [310] That [...] and I appreciate one or two might want to go and work on other divisions but I if generally they were kept on the division that they are now then it could be a very gradual process of going back into uniform. [311] Anyway perhaps if if I come back to you after next Tuesday afternoon when I've got a meeting to talk just about that subject with the deputy and see what options are going to come forward. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[312] The [...] was just whispering in my ear would it be a good idea for the dep to have er er a community affairs meeting to [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[313] mm |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[314] I mean I think we've only ever met him once since we've been here, he's our head of department, its an issue that affects not just you as the bo as the head of department |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [cough] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[315] also the people on the ground I mean er surely it wouldn't do any harm to actually sit down and put some veiws forward from the whole department |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[316] Yeah, yep |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[317] [...] It's our credibility as well you know we're being told quality of service etc etc and I think it ought to be a department meeting we all ought to have the opportunity to put forward what we're doing and where we're going. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[318] Yeah |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[319] Can I shut this window Dave? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[320] Yeah but I think I think it's right ... are you using your expertise now Dave |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[321] Yes |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[322] You do realise he's locked us in, can we break into the bar |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[323] Right I will invite the deputy to an emergency meeting on this one subject not not with a big agenda like that |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[324] No |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[325] But to talk about the way forward to do with A L O's so can we all address our minds to the problems that we perceive ma make some notes so that we can draw up a proper agenda of all the issues likely to be encountered through the civilianisation programme okay? [326] I'll get him I'll get er Jane to give me a few dates and we'll suit choose a suitable date and we'll try [...] all of the aspects everything about A L O work about the training, some of these we've almost got solutions to ourselves we ought to be careful erm, if we can er draw up a proper agenda and discuss with him all of those issues |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[327] By discussing reasons with the deputy I mean we had the meeting on public relations before Christmas and the scrutiny was promised and nothing's happened erm, we still soldier on we're not. [328] It was [...] we need |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[329] It was on the [...] agenda and at seven o'clock the at night they eh they adjourned the meeting cos they only got half way through the agenda |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[330] Mm we expected to perform in a professional way, particularly after incidents like last week when we had an horrendous twenty four hours and we don't get paid for it |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[331] [clears throat] Yep ... It was scrutiny wasn't it. [332] Yeah he mentioned to me about a month ago well I think it was at Christmas, it was probably at Christmas time |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[333] He mentioned it to me at Christmas as well |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[334] And of course now that the chief is er [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[335] P L O ing |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[336] [...] It doesn't help existing staff though does it it helps staff from [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[337] A L O ing P L O ing |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[338] I think that just puts it into bloody perspective |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[339] Gaza Strip |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[340] more interested in designing the bloody Gaza Strip than [...] . [341] Why don't they civilianise chief constables ... could be a job for you in Gaza. [342] If we start at the top instead of the bottom it'd be a bloody sight more efficient. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[343] Positive suggestions that's what I like. [laugh] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[344] That's how it used to be though [clears throat] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[345] Aye [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[346] Well and we're going back to basics so yes [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[347] [...] if they're keeping the politicians happy by keep the trou civilianising troops from the ground nobody looks at those at the top |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[348] Mm |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[349] Bu but if anybody wanted to rationalise anything properly you could actually start civilianising from the top |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[350] Because the managers are required at the top not policemen |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[351] Mm |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[352] You could look very carefully at personnel, |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[353] certainly could |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[354] er I think I personally would rue the day that we had a civilian stone cold with that sort of post because its priorities would be so different to ours |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[355] If you had a bloke like John tha that virtually ran the force for several years whether you liked him or whether you didn't he he he was efficient in running the force erm especially when Charlie was was into the erm [...] in a big way and he spent very little time with Nottinghamshire John ran the force made the decisions and cracked on with it |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[356] Mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[357] Mm Yep and a lot of people would agree with you. [358] Can we move on. [359] Er Notts neighbourly news, David. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[360] Yes we had a meeting a few weeks ago [...] to discuss the future and it was agreed that we should have three issues a year rather than four, I think this would be welcomed by local police stations gotta change the dates to act on market research which indicates certain months when certain security devices sell well. [361] We've talked to the existing publishers and this was now eight weeks ago and they still haven't written despite many phone calls from me to put suggestions forward as to costings and so on. [362] We've also approached Nottingham Evening Post who've expressed an interest in taking it on, but again we still haven't got a meeting, so I intend ringing them both this week, and stressing that we need to get a move on because really we need an issue out by March. [363] We did discuss themes for each issue, but this will be security themes, and it would help the people who are producing the paper to sell because this is one big moan they've had, they don't know what the content is until the last moment if they knew it was say er car security they could approach garages and car security device manufacturers etc. [364] So that's the way forward we hope to retain a sixteen page issue three times a year, a bit more thinking behind it and er hopefully produced at erm no extra cost to us, that's why we've gone to another supplier. [365] Er Talkthrough is is due out again four times a year er in its same format as a eight page A four. [366] I mean I would love to see a newspaper but the current staffing of the office doesn't permit that also the costing of it erm but I've very little input from this [laughing] department and really while all out and about in the force and just a tip off about something human interest or whatever would be appreciated [] . [367] Our press stories in general and working with Keith now over [...] and also the launch of Dare which has got a few problems er are there any other major [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[368] yes |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[369] Sold secure on the seventh no er seventh of March |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[370] of March |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[371] seventh of March, yeah [clears throat] [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[372] have you a location for that yet? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[373] Hopefully |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[374] It's er booked for |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[375] Yeah, that'll be fine Mike, yeah right we need to talk about that |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[376] Deputy's free and I've booked him for the launch |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[377] What time will that be? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[378] er ten a m |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[379] ten thirty |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[380] ten thirty |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[381] right so I haven't had a briefing on that so I can [...] . [382] Well we've we only went to the if you like the training session of the er erm participants yesterday and we've got our next meeting on the 22nd February that I've invited you to at . |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[383] [laughing] Must check me diary. [384] Great |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[385] Er any other new [...] coming up |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[386] Drugs hotline, you obviously included that |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[387] Yes er we're going to the drugs squad Dave and I the launch of a new hotline which is where people can report dealers, a little bit sceptical about its success but we've spent quite a lot on posters and business cards [...] . [388] The business cards have been left in [paper rustling] custody suites and so on for people to pick up but the problem is I think are the drug squad going to service it properly they are so busy er that's going to be difficult. [389] The launch is going to take place at central police station |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[390] Well it's their initiative and [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[391] That's right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[392] So presumably they've got to manage it themselves |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[393] Erm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[394] They asked for it they got it, they can't turn around and say we're too busy to deal with it it was their idea |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[395] I don't think they'll say it, but they might find they are |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[396] What about victim support |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[397] Yes, erm nineteenth -twenty sixth of Feb victims week, several meetings now with erm [...] publicity they're gonna contact you. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[398] It's the first I've heard of it |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[399] Yeah, it only happened last week, Thursday |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[400] Erm, we've got some publicity material produced, posters we intend doing several displays county hall, headquarters, all police stations will have posters sent out to them, probably libraries will be circulated with them, er it's a last minute job typical we only just found about it, we do what we can we need some sort of press exercise don't we you know. [401] Get you some victims to be included because presumably they want to appeal for more members |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[402] That's right, more recruiting |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[403] and possibly money |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[404] Well not so much money, they've got the money, they want really resources human resources, Paul's gonna do a article for us in the Herald and Post |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[405] Who is? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[406] Paul, |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[407] Oh right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[408] With his your column yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[409] yeah my column |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[410] I'm gonna talk to Dave to see whether or not he's finished his erm neighbourhood watch article whether they can put something in there about [...] and then we hope to have a meeting with you to discuss victims and some erm press releases for that week. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[411] That's a late warning though isn't it |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[412] Yeah received it last week Chief brought it to the meeting on Tuesday evening last week but the quickest [...] like most national organisations somebody was sick [...] right E B P week is the twenty first March |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[413] What's that |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[414] Educational Business Partnership which is part of Greater Nottingham Tec, major funders so they are er taking over the erm design centre on for a week. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[415] What was the date of that again |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[416] the twenty first of March. [417] Illustrating the links between business and education, and I have said that we are a major business in the area we have probably stronger links with education than any other business that I can think of, and they are going to be sa singing our praises so we are going to putting quite a big display in the in the fashion centre. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[418] mm |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[419] Well, that's the week of John drama project the twenty fourth of March which [...] done with [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[420] That's North Notts then? |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[421] Yeah, which is [...] but it's still education [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[422] Yeah erm, |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[423] W we were putting the er [...] kitchen and the [...] display in there for the week. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [belch] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[424] And also don't forget Nottinghamshire show is the 6th and 7th of May. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[425] Did you submit the plans for that kitchen to the A L O group? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[426] Yes, [laughing] that's right we did [] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[427] I think we can say that the A L O er washed it hands completely |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[428] Well clear [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[429] especially when it came to humping it into the van the A L O was nowhere to be found. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[430] Can you make a note of the North Notts drama festival |
| Stone (PS5MD) |
[431] yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[432] What was the date of that? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[433] Oh sorry the er the drama competition is 24th March |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[434] Yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[435] [...] it's sponsored by North Notts Tech, [...] that for publicity as well. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[436] The Nottinghamshire show is the 6th and 7th and as most of you know now we're going to build the equivalent of Coronation Street on quite a large area spanning a hundred years of er of burglary, that that's the theme. [437] Once again David will be tremendously involved in it. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[438] [...] a magpie again? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[439] [laughing] with maggots coming out the beak [] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[440] any further initiatives moving on later in the year which we can diary at this stage. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[441] There's certainly certainly [...] over May Day May bank holiday |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[442] oh the weekend |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[443] the city extravaganza |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[444] I've had three letters now, one from David, one from you and one from Beeston all assuming that I seem to be dealing with this subject, erm it's a Beeston commitment |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[445] Yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[446] I've left a message for Beest Chris to ring me back back about it and as yet he hasn't rung me back. [447] I will ring him again this afternoon, but it's May day and I I've no doubt that Beeston won't be authorising their C P Os to work on a bank holiday ... |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[448] That's it ain't it in a nutshell |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[449] Erm |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[450] Because it's their money that's gonna be |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[451] ah to be fair Terry is one of the better commanders |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[452] yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[453] he's not caused us any hassle at all, er he's been very helpful |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[454] yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[455] but, I can't see him authorising bank holiday workings and so bank holiday exhibitions are almost a thing of the past. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[456] What is the commitment like for display unit during the year I get the impression it's not used as much as it used to be |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[457] No it's not |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[458] it's not |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[459] [...] ain't got time |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[460] [clears throat] have not got the time to be doing |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[461] but when you think about it and I I'm not being derogatory here |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[462] mm |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[463] crime prevention officers are traditionally [...] and it's a public relations exercise ain't it, it's nothing to do with crime prevention |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[464] they want to talk about anything other than crime prevention |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[465] yeah and it's a public relations exercise, and we've been lumbered with it you know over the years we've tried to push crime prevention and people come in and they do take notes of various things you know there's obviously some people who come in and talk about crime prevention which we can answer fully, there are other enquiries about everything from bloody |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[466] recr uiting |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[467] yeah recruiting, dog shitting on their street etc etc etc that we do our best to deal with in the yer know time honoured tradition of a policeman and a and we're police officer sorry, sorry Trace, er and er we just you know I think it's more a P R O thing than er anybody, but I don't expect you to man it, I don't expect Jenny or Ann or or Jane to man it |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[468] the work wouldn't get done |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[469] no but this is |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[470] It is a shame, it's a good facility, |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[471] yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[472] can't you offer it to divisions you know and say well |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[473] we do we do |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[474] come and |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[475] it is, it is being used so |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[476] I'm using it for Tottenham fair on third, second or third of er July, but only because I've managed to get a P C enthusiastic about doing it and he's gonna man it for the day. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[477] We also use it for consultations of [...] use it for Broxstowe and Radford. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[478] Erm yeah |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[479] It gets collected and don't get broken into and bloody generators stolen. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[480] Unfortunately when other divisions come and use it they seem to think they can pick up the caravan and there'll be a wonderful display in there |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[481] yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[482] ready for them to use |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[483] mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[484] and the posters will all be there neatly in rows and all they have to do is smile is smile and er shake a few hands |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[485] It's probably manned by your staff [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[486] Well at the end of the day somebody's got to get it ready |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[487] It's never not been cleaned for six seven months |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[488] but we haven't got a Pat at the moment and its in and it's his responsibility. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[489] but in the plans for the reorganisation of community affairs there was an exhibitions officer [...] wasn't there? there's still a need for that isn't there? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[490] That's right entirely |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[491] It would save you all a lot of time |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[492] There was a was er an exhibitions officer listed and a a burglar alarms inspectorate |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[493] inspectorate |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[494] Erm, and neither of them have been brought here, they've done the bit that suits them, of of of civilianising the the the er crime prevention officers but the bit that actually needed doing they've not done |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[495] yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[496] but when you think of it the cost of the superintendent doing display work is enormous isn't it |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[497] That's right [laugh] yeah that's right. [498] I appreciate I shouldn't be spending my time up a ladder, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[499] mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[500] But sometimes it's the only way to get things done |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[501] but they wouldn't allow it in industry or commerce |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[502] No but as often as not [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[503] I disagree with you they do nowadays |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[504] they encourage management to work on floor level, they do well it's certainly in modern what is it? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[505] a month a year where they go back on the tools. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[506] that's right a month a year, go back and do the basics |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[507] anyway, [...] yes, which is once again a divisional commitment er it's a programme of course |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[508] What's the date of that river thing? |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[509] Operation Trent? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[510] No, no the boat show in Nottingham |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[511] Oh aye |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[512] Yes four day boat show |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[513] is the regatta which is sometime in May although Mick will be involved with that, knows about that Paul has offered to help and Ray will do a lot of the running around so we have got people involved in that |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[514] But Ray is on the on the river all the time that it's on he can't man the caravan. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[515] No, but he will do the preparatory work and he's taking photographs now for us, that can be blown up for display purposes and he's linking with marinas to find equipment so |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[516] [...] September nineteenth and twenty sixth two weeks |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[517] Is that going to be [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[518] No |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[519] Severn Trent's work to [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[520] Nine months or a year's time we may have a different animal working in that office and it may well be some person who has who does some J L O work to supplement John and does some project work, now er Jackie has indicated she'd love to fill that role, and we all know what project she'd want to be doing it, but er if we do put somebody in that role they will be project officer as well and on the wall will be a year planner and it'll have things like crucial crew gala day and all these major major things and that particular officer will work quite closely with the new Pat and they'll be able to take some of the weight off our shoulders so when we start planning for something like crucial crew you can delegate some of the work to the project officer and perhaps the other sergeant ... Now I know things don't always work out quite that straightforwardly but you know the last year has been a bastard of a year for us in terms of sickness, four S L O's have been on long-term sick we've lost Pat for all that time Jed was off for quite a while |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[521] Yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[522] Dave was off with his hernia Ross , Wayne Lindsay we've not seen for a year, I mean I know things have been difficult for the last year |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[523] Joe |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[524] yeah, we've lost an enormous amount of staff probably a third of our staff disappeared in the last twelve months, and I think y you we must recognise it's bound to make an impact and here we are sitting here feeling a bit shell shocked and that's no doubt one of the contributory factors. [525] Perhaps the year ahead's gonna be a lot easier for us. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[526] Certainly I hope they take that into consideration when we do the er annual report and what we've done because we haven't been half as active as what we have in the past, |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[527] the annual report has got nothing to do with |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[528] no I |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[529] work |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[530] don't mean work, I mean the H M I's report |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[531] ah because the annual report this year is all they want to do is plug er three or four little topics that we've done er on a thematic basis. [532] They don't want a report of the years work they just want us to talk about one or two things we've done ... Any more events? ... |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[533] no |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[534] Just move onto the next one then media trainer I started talking to the training school about doing some training for officers it started with C I D cos you often find that a D S is an acting D I and when we asked them to do an interview about a crime or incident they say we've not done radio interviews before, so Phil has er supported it and we're gonna run some sort of training scheme one day courses for them. [535] Also er saw er Nick last week and he's agreed that we can offer a similar sort of training scheme around the force people apply just for er a one day course so what I'm saying to any community affairs staff |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[536] certainly the new C P Os need to be |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[537] Yes, yeah ... |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[538] Alan is he going an all? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[539] He's gonna run it |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[540] He's another one for etiquette. [541] My wife my wife heard him on the radio on Saturday morning she said who's this why does he keep saying motor car, motor car |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[542] it wasn't me |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[543] no |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[544] Don't start David off. [545] I don't [...] got time cos he's so busy running these man management courses |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[546] [laughing] oh oh oh oh oh [] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[547] quality of service |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[548] inter-personal skills |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[549] Somebody's asked the price you pay for genius |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[550] Oh yeah, he's very good at solving big jobs, but er that's the price you pay I'm afraid. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[551] Right so we've got Paul and the three new C P Os who would like to go on some training right |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[552] I'll I'll get round that somehow I'll let you know |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[553] Yes, right if anybody else has got any feelings please let me have them |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[554] How is em is Diane [...] yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[555] Yeah Diane. [556] Yeah, we probably could run one course for community affairs staff actually, we take about twelve people on it normally |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[557] it'll be the new S L O perhaps |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[558] probably the S L O |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[559] I mean the new ones if and when selected there's a new post there |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[560] Just to mention one more thing the force video, a number of community affairs staff have mentioned to me that it's out of date cos it goes back to the previous organisation |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[561] it's also sexist |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[562] sexist? [563] Is it about policemen |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[564] It says about scenes of crime officers cos most burglaries happen er in the early afternoon when when mum's gone out to pick up the kids before she comes home to cook the tea |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[565] Oh |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[566] I wouldn't know that. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[567] Now you play that in the school and watch er fourth form girls sort of you know |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[568] I'm gonna start wrong |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[569] Is that when the teachers have walked out |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[570] Probably be as well to start teaching em that again |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[571] [laughing] oh oh oh [] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[572] That comes from er er an officer that's very shortly retiring. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[573] Revamping it to use some of the existing film and to include new film and new voice over and new look, it's about five or six thousand pounds. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[574] Can you sort of have you looked at the federation videos that we've got now. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[575] No |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[576] Federation have got some super videos [...] very very good model [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[577] have you got em |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[578] we we've ordered ten |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[579] Steve has got one that he played at the last S L Os meeting, it lasts about four minutes it's as long as the song he ain't heavy he's my brother. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[580] are these national videos |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[581] yep yep yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[582] the problem is videos done well can cost you thirty forty thousand pounds. [583] The last one we had we had a budget of ten thousand pounds the company which did it said that it would normally not take on a project of that sort of cost but they found a junior member of staff to take it on and the end product I mean that's going back nearly five years now, was quite er acceptable and welcome but now it it looks very much out , the force has been reorganised, we need to give it a new look. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[584] Erm, can I say that it's only last year that we organised that video for secured car parks, and employed a blooming outside presenter to do it, and that cost us twelve thousand quid, and that were at Derby and they made an excellent bloody video of it didn't they? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[585] yeah |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[586] an excellent video and it was twenty five minutes long |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[587] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[588] And they normally say that a minute of erm that is gonna be a thousand quid don't they a minute of video is a thousand quid |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[589] Yeah but you see by going to the same supplier, we've got a lot of the film we can use that er there's been several days filming |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[590] do we want to use it again? |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[591] Well it's either that or start from scratch, and we're talking fifteen thousand pounds |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[592] right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[593] I dunno I mean I'll mention it to the deputy again and say look we're getting towards the end of a financial year, there will be some departments underspent because er suppliers can't meet deadlines and really you should keep in mind that w we haven't got er we can't just pluck five thousand pounds out of our budget. [594] I mean it would indicate that our budgets five thousand more than we really need on other years. [595] Er and it's a force commitment it isn't I mean short of saving up over a period of years which we are not allowed to do |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[596] Personnel uses a lot I mean for career shows and open days |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[597] Let's have it out of personnel budget erm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[598] yeah good |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[599] What I was going to say yeah I've been involved in a lot of videos over recent years and erm central [...] [clears throat] er and there's a freelance budget which [...] a caravan for central they usually charge about three or four thousand pounds depending on how long the video is |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[600] [...] they shoot it and they will then arrange to er edit it and produce about five thousand |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[601] I find that these people who are so called on the cheap that the product is not very good, well if you say say you call it [...] by one of them |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[602] and it were crap |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[603] yeah, I mean on the burglary project we did a super video about victims, they did one for school which Steve was involved in which was excellent and you know so the quality is not in doubt. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[604] But I think the best recommendation is when big business has used that company to produce a video for themselves, you know the companies with the big budgets and so on it's an indication of the quality |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[605] cost a lot of money? |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[606] Yeah but if it's going to be shown to ultimately thousands of people and to last at least a couple of years, we should invest in it. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[607] Em |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[608] But as I say that I recommend them because they were er excellent. [609] They did all the shooting in two days actually and er they made a blooming good job of it. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[610] Well I've got a feeling that if you do a video we're gonna reorganise anyway in the light of er what's going to happen in near future, getting rid of chief superintendents and things like that, we might be wasting money again. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[611] As the review of the nineteen ninety three year alteration been complete |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[612] of the [...] authority |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[613] Well no, if you remember they they've just started now a review of nineteen ninety three's reorganisation because everything that moved from Newark to West Bridgford has moved back again |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[614] Yeah |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[615] ain't it |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[616] I can't see them keeping that division together for very long |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[617] Well as I say they're reviewing the whole lot again. [618] The whole nineteen ninety-three reorganisation is being reviewed. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[619] That's it it's been done. [620] [...] is back with the Chief now. |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[621] Yeah it's back with him, but as I say the overall implications haven't er been sorted out. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[622] I think from the video's point of view the S I hardly ever use it anymore |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[623] er right |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[624] They've agreed they're gonna use this federation one as a short stop gap an an I think Paul's point is spot on, it might be a bit silly to jump in just at the moment |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[625] There's a lot of stuff happening nationally which could affect us, and for the sake of eighteen months we might be as well waiting. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[626] mm |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[627] By the way, there was one thing that we didn't mention when we were talking about C P O's that is very pertinent is that already, I've got it on authority, that one of the C P O's that we've employed as a civilian has been offered a job with an alarm company at fifteen thousand a year ... |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[628] has he? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[629] Mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[630] And that's without any training |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[631] That that's dependent on him [...] trained |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[632] Quite frankly the salaries you offer these C P Os is [...] if they weren't retired police officers, you wouldn't get the calibre of person. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[633] that's right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[634] And that's not fair quite frankly, with the current job situation ... |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[635] Now we might get some very very good qualified erm civilians apply for the post if it was fifteen thousand a year plus |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[636] Mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[637] Well they would say hang on, you had one hundred and thirty seven applicants as it was |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[638] Yeah I know but a lot of them were crap, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[639] mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[640] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[641] Right we seem to have gone back to subject four there don't we, eh where are we now? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[642] eight |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[643] eight Keith, sounds like an interesting one, computer training purchase for C A staff |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[644] Yep, there's been a lot of occasions in the last two to three months when I could really have done with access to a computer. [645] Erm to sit down, it's alright saying that I've got Alf and I've got Tracey there are times when I I need to sit down and jiggle stuff about, and look at something |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[646] posters and things |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[647] well not posters, the horsewatch is a prime example where I wanted to look at setting a format in a particular way, and to sit at the side of either Alf or Tracey well now alter it to that or to that I'm sure they'd do it, but nevertheless it's putting them off their work. [648] What I'm saying to you is, erm I don't expect for one minute to have a computer installed in my office, ccessdon'tw alter it to that a particular way, and to |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[649] uh uh |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[650] Mind you've got access to one? |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[651] When I'm trained, I'm going to [...] in my office in the near future |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[652] I thought I thought you were going to get one on your desk, one like Jed's that hums all the time. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[653] It is programmed [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[654] That's [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[655] Well okay, I need to say that when it's long reports I have no problem, I mean since I've lost Doreen and come under Tracey the quality and speed that I get typing back is much improved. [656] I'm not saying that to embarrass her. [657] I can put fax stuff to Tracey and have it back the next day, but I've got to physically fetch it, that is the only disadvantage or arrange to get it picked up. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[658] What do you want to use the computer for? |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[659] But I mean stuff like memos small memos and things like that by the time I've sat and written it out I could've put it straight onto a word processor myself and got it typed. [660] This this stuff like em er storing things [...] lists mailing lists, er mailing lists for the sold secure which I'm the secretary of. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[661] Get yourself on the course that Paul went on and you're gonna be getting the kit soon anyway, as part of the network, it won't give you stand alone, but you have to have somebody on the network |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[662] yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[663] Cos people are going to be sending you messages on it |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[664] Oh right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[665] Get yourself on the course, ring er Sue or somebody, at the training school, tell her your problem |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[666] It's Jeff you write to |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[667] Is it Jeff right, get yourself on the course, it shouldn't be difficult to get on the course, Paul got on it, without even knowing he was on it. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[668] They rang one up in the morning to say why aren't you here? |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[669] Well what about the kit, who's I mean are you responsible [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[670] [...] on the list to get one, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[671] Yes, em |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[672] Another terminal, cos when you start to use it you realise the value of it |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[673] Presumably my printer would be one of those linked back to the Apple |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[674] yeah yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[675] the printer would do that, but your machine here would be linked into a storage computer storage system here at Mansfield which every now and again it sends all the information down the telephone lines to headquarters, and it's done every is it every two hours? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[676] yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[677] or is it two hours in the morning? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[678] They do it every two hours. [679] But the thing is that your er particular area you know, if you wanted to do one and not save it, you don't have to save, you know, you know you can print it off and it's done, but you can send mail to Tracey or headquarters C A, you wouldn't have to print it out once it's what you want you just press a button and it goes. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[680] But in theory you could do posters here at Mansfield and you could send out, we could print them in colour for you |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[681] right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[682] So I mean there are other advantages, and the answer is that in in in the long term you are getting your name down for one, so clear a space on your desk |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[683] it's a week's course |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[684] Yeah, cos I think Ann's been [...] two courses now and we've picked her brains so we can have basic use, but er you start to realise it's only a little bit of the system you know, you could do a lot more |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[685] Well they sent me, I went on a computer course two days before I went to in hospital and was away for [laughing] eight weeks and I forgot totally [] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[686] Well ... so the answer is yes, you'll be getting one, if you check with them they'll tell you what the timescale is ... I wish all items were as easy as this. [687] Number nine. [688] Oh This is a good one. [689] [laugh] diet and behaviour project. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[690] Don't think there's any truth in this at all. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[691] Okay that's finished that then. [692] Right then next one number ten. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[693] About |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[694] Go on then |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[695] when was it November, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[696] Er no, no |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[697] Recently, recently |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[698] Dave and I er were grabbed by the throat by em a woman and her husband from Worksop called and woman called Barbara , and she's been involved with er a fella called Superintendent er in West Yorkshire. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[699] um |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[700] I see [...] right. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[701] In West Yorkshire they do a lot of studies university type studies on behavioural problems in kids, affecting, being affected by what they eat and they've done trials on all sorts. [702] So she came and talked to 'em we had a long chat and actually I mean it er does sound very interesting [...] . [703] We'll probably take this [...] on paper, [...] so the reason it's on the agenda is to tell you as a department that we've had this sent to us, erm we've got a meeting later this week to actually sit down and analyse it and to put something on paper to send up to command. [704] My theories with it, [...] my er great cynical look at it is, they they need a hundred offenders and a hundred non offenders to be referred to them for these tests. [705] I mean the offenders aren't named or anything it's all computerised numbering, but of course in West Yorkshire they've used the juvenile liaison officer [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [cough] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[706] there's no way I can put this onto |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[707] No, no |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[708] certainly John , there's no way, erm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[709] First of all, has this project official backing from command |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[710] Our command? no, because it's not been put to them yet |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[711] Yeah [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[712] Yeah but what are we gonna word it in such a way as they're not gonna give it? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[713] probably |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[714] cos' of the cos of the er |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[715] Well the new the new demands on the [...] just don't I mean just don't allow any scope |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[716] No |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[717] [...] any leverage at all |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[718] I I've got to say that it's somebody that's got a personal project that has done it in one force ain't it. [719] Now that particular force if they're anything like the other forces that I deal with, ain't under the stresses and strains that we are. [720] When you look at Lincolnshire and they've got a Chief Inspector as a force crime prevention officer and they've got an inspector as a deputy force crime prevention officer, and their crime is a third of ours, or well less than a third of ours,y y you start getting things into perspective and I think they're trying to put too much work onto a too over-worked task force already. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[721] This is Leeds where they've done this, so I wouldn't have thought they were under-worked. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[722] No |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[723] Er the reason we wanna get it right is because er this Superintendent , erm he's obviously got his interests very much on it, and he's he's keen to know what our response is going to be, and if it were just a member of the public I think we could we could being crude I think we could fob 'em off, but I think it's gonna have to be a very structured answer as to why we're not gonna do it. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[724] We might look at it and think it's worth doing it's interesting. [725] What we say is that our juvenile liaison officers are working six or seven between six and ten hours unpaid overtime every week, just trying to do their normal core work. [726] To start giving them new projects is unrealistic and we can't authorise it. [727] It would incur large overtime commitments, have they any idea who is likely to pay it? [728] Cos we can't. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[729] I'd love to do it, really because I think you know er there's a lot of evidence pro and there's a lot of evidence against, and I like to |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[730] I wonder if they would supply us with a researcher |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[731] Oh yeah they do they supply the researcher |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[732] All we do is allow them access to |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[733] that's all we do |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[734] files |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[735] Oh |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[736] Well that's, but the referral has to be done by the juvenile liaison |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[737] No, I mean actually come to one of the officers and sit there and they do the work, so it doesn't bother us at all. [738] All we do is make sure that they're not taking anything |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[739] Because it's home office funding |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[740] It er could lead the way open to a major breakthrough in in crime prevention really. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[741] And it [...] as well. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[742] They could [...] Chief Inspector Williams from here. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[743] We will know that certain dietary supplements will stop crime, [...] is a good example |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[744] [...] in the cell block and we [...] and somebody was causing trouble many many years ago |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[745] The [...] on Thursday at one o'clock if you want to come to the meeting. [746] Sometimes you can be very radical |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[747] He's always radical |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[748] The master's done it. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[749] Yeah [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[750] Somebody's having digs at [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[751] Right, very interesting |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[752] In fact it's got your writing on it Sir, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[753] Next one, [...] initiative, er Jed sold secure. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[754] We're progressing at great rate of knots at the moment. [755] All our twelve participating garages received their initial training yesterday. [756] It was excellent training. [757] I tell you, if I'd have know what the content of the training was gonna be, I would've arranged for our twelve crime prevention officers to go across there and listen to it, because there was a locksmith there that gave a lot of sound advice in relation to security of homes as well cars that really was good basic grounding for a crime prevention officer. [758] I did shock him with one answer, cos he he was expecting a totally different answer to the one I gave him which was correct, and you know that is unusual for me, but er I did shock him with one, but other than that it was erm it was er an excellent input all the way through the day, and they explained the differences and why they er approved some products and not the others, things like that, it was er spot on. [759] And he made one or two of the garage men you know really the the you could see one or two were taken aback by the things he were saying, and it was er very very professionally put over. [760] Our next meeting of our local group we refused to launch it on the day that we were doing the training, and if you'd seen the launch yesterday it was absolutely bloody abysmal. [761] Erm all it was in the middle of a training session the Chief Inspector at Lincolnshire got up and said er erm you know the members of the press who were there erm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[762] How many press did you get? |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[763] One Lincolnshire Echo er the the the the the thing was now open. [764] Er the Yorkshire television did phone up and apologise for not coming but er that was it. [765] Erm the R M I F bloke was there and he said that's the second one he's been to where they've been doing the training and the launch at the same time and neither of them've gone well. [766] Erm but like I think we've done it right. [767] We're gonna get em trained up in the garages before we actually launch, but they are able now to say they are [...] approved installers so they will be getting all the stuff, everything in relation to it, I've given em a list of the people involved in Nottinghamshire and it's the launch is on the seventh March at West Bridgford, and basically the system is ready and up and running, thank the Lord after hard work by er Keith and us all at various times, but it's been mainly down to Keith. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[768] It's the twenty seventh March is it? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[769] No, seventh of March. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[770] seventh |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[771] At West Bridgford Police Station. [772] So I've got to er one I've got it diaried to meet you and Keith about a press launch and er a you know a press release |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[773] yeah |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[774] [...] then also er a talk with the dep about what he's gonna say, and I'm gonna put at the beginning please do not refer [laughing] to this as being prepared for you, that's two times he's been to a launch and said that [] and he don't give it such a spontaneous thing, so er I did meet him and tell him |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[775] is this reading your script |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[776] Yeah so er I'll give him notes this time I think, and let him put the meat on the bone |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[777] Bullet points |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[778] mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[779] Okay force watch, Keith |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[780] Yes it will be launched, a bit late next Wednesday the ninth February at the [...] section, not a big splash at all it's just a photo call for the press to come in and take such pictures and what have you. [781] It will be split into local authority areas, erm it'll be a telephone pyramid type system, a handbook which is being printed I took the dummy, did you drop the dummy back to Steve yesterday? [782] The dummy was dropped back to Steve yesterday at the printers and that's now gonna be done. [783] Obviously it'll not be done for the launch but he's made a smart job of it it looks really smart done it in yellow, erm and really later on this week I'm just tidying up, I've got to go and see F I B just to make sure everything's in place with them in the mounted section and really this time a week tomorrow it'll be launched. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[784] Who's launching it |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[785] Er me, I mean it's just it's just a photo call |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[786] right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[787] Has Jane prepared the press release yet? |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[788] She has done, I went to speak to her about it last Friday, but she was diverted cos |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[789] She's on a course next week, so I'll |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[790] I'm seeing her |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[791] I'm gonna go and see her on she doesn't know, but I'll call in and see her on Thursday. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[792] Right, I'll tell her you're calling in |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[793] Right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[794] Right, er on to any other business, David do you want to just give a ten minute summary about Parish special constables |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[795] Mm yes, erm since the home office secretary's initiative it's progressing quite well, with interest from certainly Bassett, Newark Stanton on the Wolds Tollerton and some other of the rural Coldfield areas were interested in going forward, Bassett looked very very interested, we went to a meeting last night, eighteen parish councils were represented, er Beckingham is going to be the first one, they've got a special that lives there who's gonna take up the work, Superintendent came down last night to do a circular of em a questionnaire around the village and parish to get find out what people want, and then go and see what the specials able to provide and meet the two together and get some sort of contractive agreement, he'll work from the police house there, he'll have access to the car, when it's not being used by the rural officer, also his radio. [796] [...] problems that we [...] generally will be hopefully er forestalled by that er action by the Superintendent. [797] So that'll be the first one. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[798] When will that be? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[799] No dates have been arranged yet |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[800] yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[801] But it'll be the next few weeks. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[802] Well I'd like to get involved in some sort of launch for it. [803] I think Derbyshire have done quite a big thing and had some publicity for theirs. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[804] yeah it's rubbish innit all they're doing is team policing with specials. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[805] mm mm |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[806] They drop off a van load of specials in an area and walk round with their helmets on |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[807] What's the difference then, what's our scheme |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[808] Well ours is a proper pukka job, David as you expect |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[809] Yes yes [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[810] Is there a blue print for what a parish constable should know |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[811] No no |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[812] The guidelines are put out at home office, but they really know what they were doing. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[813] Right |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[814] So that's why we haven't, he wanted twenty, the home secretary wanted twenty up and running before Christmas, he didn't say which Christmas, but we presumed he meant last Christmas, and we said no, we'll do it properly and get it started up right |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[815] Can, can I just I thought that my perceptions of this was there were twenty schemes already in existence er split between parish wardens and parish constables and there was gonna be a report put back to the er home secretary for him to decide the way forward and er that er we would wait for the evaluation of that scheme before we went further. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[816] No, totally wrong Jim |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[817] Well that was that |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[818] That was my original [...] they had a competition to look out for people who've got ideas about this new idea, it was a ridiculous idea to do a competition cos people didn't know what they were entering for, half the parishes weren't notified about it, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[819] Er, mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[820] so those few that entered most of them got prizes and it was three police forces that entered and they all got awards. [821] And the award was a certificate from the home secretary a very treasured certificate from a highly respected member of the cabinet, and erm where it's gone from there we had a meeting at the home office |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[822] Did you note the sarcasm in the voice |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[823] hm Mr |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[824] Er the home office really didn't know what they were talking about they gave these two models of the unpaid volunteer er no uniform, no training, no powers, to come out from the community work with the community under the eyes and ears of the police. [825] Or the second model they gave was the special constable either a newly recruited special or a person who is an existing special to work in the in the parish. [826] The vast majority of people entered the competition also were at the er home office meeting favoured the second option, [...] existing special or recruiting a special to work in the area. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[827] David could you do me a report on that for command because I suspect nobody's [...] picture at all. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[828] No no. [829] Mr had a meeting with Mr last week |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[830] Did he? |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[831] Yeah yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[832] But he'll only talk about [...] |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[833] Well no, Mr is sort of co-ordinating the whole thing |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[834] Okay |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[835] and er Gary was involved yesterday in drawing some plans up with er Nick |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[836] right |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[837] So [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[838] Are these existing special constables then |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[839] Well it depends in in that particular one yes, er in other areas there was interest from the floor last night about local people who would like to become specials so one or two forms were handed out, application forms, [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[840] We had a phone call yesterday from a a civilian detention officer working at Trent who lives in my village of Tollerton who wants to be a special constable to work just in Tollerton. [841] He's already had two [...] anyway through recognising people that have been through his hands in the cell block, an following 'em and finding them climbing through a window. |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[842] Is that reasonable suspicion? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[843] Yeah, and it was his bungalow. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[844] When you think about it the two big problems are transport and communication |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[845] mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[846] If you're a C D O at Trent and you know you're gonna go out on patrol as a special that night, there's no doubt Trevor will let you take a radio home with you, as long as you bring it back the next day. [847] So you've resolved your tr communication problem straight away. [848] So I think Tollerton stands quite a good chance of getting that one through. [849] It could be quite a good er model. [850] And you don't need transport cos the village is small enough. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[851] Mm |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[852] In fact we had a letter didn't we from the neighbourhood watch co-ordinator saying that she sort of goes on patrol when she takes the dog a walk |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[853] Mm |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[854] She would like some sort of mobile communication to alert police, well it's an interesting area, but it would cost a fortune [laughing] to provide mobile phones [] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[855] Well [...] parish councils are now looking to fund [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[856] To be fair most of us were P C's for quite a few years without radios and we worked out extremely well didn't we, without those radios |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[857] yeah but but but |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[858] [...] society has somewhat changed in twenty five twenty eight years |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[859] b but I think some of the rural villages of today where this is gonna take place aren't all that different to the sort of |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[860] No that's true |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[861] Beestons, the Carltons and the Mansfields that we patrolled twenty years ago. [862] And er it's a question of initiative and if if there is a local need for some sort of communications well perhaps the parish councils can find some way |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[863] [...] local sponsorship |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[864] yeah yeah |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[865] Is there some sort of limit within the policy that we've got on the size of a place cos Newark's a big place to have a parish constable. |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[866] Newark wanted to take it forward and er I went and talked to them and I said to them you're not really appropriate, what you want is to recruit some more specials |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[867] Yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[868] Yeah, but Stanton on the Wolds is too small, we're trying to link them in with Keyworth and it might well be he could do Tollerton as well. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[869] if it's a foot patrol officer that's walking round the |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[870] er |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[871] you don't want them in cars do you, really? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[872] No course not |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[873] But that but that's tha that's defeating the whole object of the exercise of getting you know more foot patrols, because it's foot patrols that they're talking about all the time, if you give 'em a car you go back to the you know the fire brigade syndrome when it was zip zip zip |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[874] The big benefit is that they are seen walking about |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[875] Mm |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[876] People feel safer if they see a police man |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[877] that's what I thought, what I thought |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[878] In my experience it's a [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Williams (PS5ME) |
[879] I would've said that, but last night this meeting said they'd very much like to see a officer in a car because they don't see anybody at the moment |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[880] I think that would defeat the object in small places because you can hear these diesel cars coming a hundred miles away, in the later hours you can |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[881] yeah |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[882] And the villains just listen for it, you walking round and hide in the doorway for five minutes you see far more |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[883] far more |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[884] I think they'd say that they'd like to see an officer in a car because they don't see anybody, what they really mean they want to see somebody they can talk to |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[885] That's right |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[886] They don't see anybody at the moment Dave so anything's better than nothing |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[887] That's right. [888] But if you put somebody in there who [...] and and they become disassociated with the people [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[889] I mean the way we look at it really is to group villages together so perhaps they'll have more cover if they've got two or three specials who work different hours if they have a vehicle they can have access to, provide the cover there. |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[890] But you don't [...] drive from village to village |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[891] They just drive round perhaps driving it parking it up and having a walk |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[892] That's why these service agreements are being drawn up they will do so much foot patrol |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[893] If they're gonna be driving from village to village, they might as well work from a police station and drive from village to village in a transit van or a police vehicle. [894] Right then, we were talking about local parishes, and in most cases a parish is sufficiently small to walk round. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[895] Some of them are quite big north of the county |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[896] Not like a village it's a parish it's a lot bigger than a village |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[897] Yeah but I mean you're not bothered about the parish you're not bothered about [...] you're bothered about [...] really |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[898] Well no [laugh] the farmers the farmers were most keen on it, I mean [...] |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[899] There's no point in us getting bogged down, every parish is so different to every other parish, they've got to look at local needs, that's not our priority. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[900] If they want to do it then they [...] it's going on anyway. [901] Anything else on your list David? |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[902] Er Farm Watch was mentioned last night. |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[903] Yeah |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[904] It received a lot of interest, the N F U were there er and the [...] area, that area was very very keen on getting something together |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[905] Well |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[906] The way we tried to turn them er despite Bill we decided to try to turn them to become involved in neighbourhood watch schemes, which there are plenty of already, and erm they were quite interested in that the farmers that were there. |
| Collishan (PS5MA) |
[907] What do you mean despite them? |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[908] Well Bill stood up and was a bit negative really to the whole idea of parish constables, farm watch and everything else, it was quite disappointing |
| Storer (PS5M9) |
[909] There are quite a few farm watch schemes around the county |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[910] Well |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[911] [clears throat] Let let can I tell you in conjunction with Lincolnshire erm the N F U produced a leaflet that they're circulating to a hundred thousand of their membership in er, it's a real mis-match of counties, Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Leicestershire, Notts, Lincolnshire right, and er we've got our logo on the back er, because I checked the er you know checked the content of it, and it didn't put too much onus on police setting up schemes and what not, but the N F U are delivering one of these leaflets in the next week or two to every one of their members in er that particular area, so no doubt we'll be getting some er contact with it. [912] Er the N F U representative for Nottinghamshire, based in Stanford has been to see me about it |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[913] [...] last night |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[914] Yeah, I think I think it was |
| Mills (PS5MC) |
[915] Mm |
| Jeffery (PS5MB) |
[916] Er has been to see me about it, but I've said that the initiative for farm watch has got to come from them, I said, we're not gonna stand up and draw up a load of support and expect us to service the damn thing, I said it's up to you and your members to do it, and I still think he's trying to get us to do it via the back door, He's been to talk to me now about it, and I've told him exactly what I want to do and that we we'll be involved, but it ain't gonna be a police run scheme, it's gonna be a farmer's run scheme with police support locally. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[917] but I think that's, before it goes too far that's the bit you've got to get together is the police support 'cos if you look at Woodborough and Calverton they've got a farm watch system in that area, the farmers were very very keen on doing |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[918] That's right |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[919] I can quote you three particular instances where farmers have rung in with good information only to be told at the other end of the phone what the bloody hell have you rung us for and they've got nothing within the local police whatsoever. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[920] Exactly |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[921] they're totally disgusted |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[922] Exactly the same as members of neighbourhood watch schemes |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[923] So until we get a [...] organised, you know it's no good sort of encouraging em all to become members for them to ring in, only to get that stone wall, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[924] that's right |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[925] response at our end, and as as I said, I know that person, three particular incidences which were good incidences to report two of them would've certainly resulted in arrests, and they got an absolutely negative reply. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[926] Well they did quite well, because one of the people quoted an incident last night said they got an [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[927] Yeah, because they put them through to crime prevention department, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[928] yeah, they do |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[929] half past five in the morning |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[930] yeah and that's the problem with this sort of whatever sort of watch you wanted to do, unless unless we encourage and get the backing of the troops on the ground we're kicking ourselves in the teeth |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[931] Harry over at Calverton actually got a farm watch going |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [cough] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[932] Mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[933] Can I say that really all details of these watch schemes should go to Paul, so he's got some detail of them. [934] When people ring in and say is there a farm watch anywhere, Paul can get his folder out |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[935] He had very little response to that memo you sent out the other week, I've taken no phone calls whatsoever |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[936] about notification of different watch schemes |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[937] I think there's just one |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[938] Around this table, we all know of a dozen or so watch schemes out in the dark |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[939] Will you make sure that Paul's got some reference, so he knows who to go to |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[940] He doesn't want a running file, he just needs enough detail to know who's running things, who's in charge of it, with phone numbers so we can pass people on to the correct person, okay. [941] So all watch schemes if its only just one half a page, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[942] Cos I mean they've got signs up round [...] and Calverton |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[943] That's the farmers union I believe |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[944] no, I don't know it's [...] as well that we have nothing to do with |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[945] No and that's a national |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[946] We have circulated it on the erm on |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[947] Yeah but that forecourt watch is almost er a crimestoppers type of thing, it's not actually a watch scheme, it's a reward a rewards job for |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[948] Yeah, but we |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[949] have police watch |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[950] D Do you know do you know that Norfolk where the headquarters are where the incident room is, Norfolk have not had one reported incident to that forecourt watch, cos I spoke to the control staff, not had one to the force where it's actually been centred. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[951] No, but they've had 'em all over the country |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[952] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[953] Yeah but Norfolk is, I mean Jeds point, Norfolk haven't really got the problems that we've got, |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[954] No |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[955] Yer know, you don't |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[956] We've been acting on a [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[957] It's a garage watch [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[958] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[959] Yesterday they [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[960] The thing is what I've got to say is, they live in, in a different world from us, the six forces in the er our region and Derbyshire are er second to us, a distant second and then the other four have got no problems compared with us |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[961] We just about figure out how to [...] together |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[962] And yet they seem to have more resources, more crime prevention officers, more everything |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[963] See that launch at Lincolnshire, their P R department are far bigger than ours |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[964] And it was |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[965] And they've got an Inspector and Sargeant seconded to them all the time, and a highly paid civilian and other civilian staff |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[966] Er [...] service |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[967] We we're doing an excellent job with limited resources, if everybody was as efficient as Nottinghamshire there wouldn't be no blooming |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[968] Yeah but we're defeating our own, we are sometimes |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[969] successful |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[970] [...] successful in doing these schemes and because resources on we are hard pressed, resources on the ground are thin then when people ring up with these schemes that we get it off the ground they meet this negative sort of answer when they ring in, that's the only sort of er liaison with themselves and the police and they're met with that, and their reaction then is down the pub tell their mates don't ring in cos its a reaction, and that's the trouble with us being, as it were too successful before, better to be less successful, but we'd have more staff at the centre like Lincolnshire etc to actually get the difference from when somebody does the odd person does ring in they get a response to it |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[971] What's the problem with this new switchboard, has it settled down now or we were getting all sorts of complaints initially |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[972] Oh yeah I know |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[973] people couldn't get through |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[974] Oh its its its chronic, Tracy and Yvonne take hundreds of calls that are nowt to do with us, we've what was it, we had complaints and discipline on on Friday afternoon, they wanted Superintendent J Smith and complaints and discipline on Friday afternoon, she were just gonna transfer it and Jim [laughing] walked in so we just had [] a phone call for you he said |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[975] how did you knwo I was here, well good timing |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[976] But they they're the kinda, it don't matter what it is, we've |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[977] Lot of the calls we get are for like Jackie or Coldwell, they're not based here |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[978] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[979] You could probably get very frustrated [...] about six extensions |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[980] Mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[981] Don't we start logging them, who's in charge |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[982] I don't think the public know that the every call they make comes to headquarters |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[983] So they just ask for crime prevention and they get it |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[984] Well it's not encouraged is it, because they're still told to to ring the divisional telephone number |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[985] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[986] Right, becasue we're trying to maintain the image of it being [...] locally |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[987] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[988] And that's when you get the problems, I had a chap ring me, he wanted to report a crime, and he says well you're only just down the road, at , I said no I'm not I'm at Sherwood Lodge, he said I didn't ring Sherwood Lodge I rang [...] police station |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[989] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[990] And er, I think we're misleading the public aren't we |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[991] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[992] And also, if if if you're in an area like me and mine's [...] , if I ring my local police station, Eastwood and [...] I'm paying for a trunk call or an out of area call, costing me twice as much |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[993] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[994] It's costing me twice as much for the call |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[995] It shouldn't be, if you dia if you dialled the erm [...] number or whatever you should be charged that rate |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[996] I know, I know it I know it's no good [...] but so [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[997] still ring your own number, then its routed there at our cost, not yours |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[998] Oh, but the public think they're ringing a local police station |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[999] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1000] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1001] Well you see, but you see the people on the switchboard know which one they've rung |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1002] Yes they do |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1003] Mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1004] It says so on the switchboard, which one they've rung, now if they ask for crime prevention and they phoned [...] number, they should be put through to the bloody [...] crime prevention |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1005] Not offloaded to crime prevention headquarters which is [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1006] [...] of course, when you get one of those calls and you divert it back to the switchboard or divert it direct to [...] when you put the phone down pick it up and dial zero, so you put another call through to headquarters community affairs and its not through us |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1007] Tell 'em every time |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1008] Mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1009] They'll soon get tired of you telling 'em |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1010] They'll laugh |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [cough] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1011] What we're doing is |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1012] it's germs |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1013] and we are telling the people that they've got the power to change it, keep telling the switchboard operators, cos' when you press zero that actually do answer very quickly |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1014] Mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1015] So you've just put an another call through |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1016] Well they do |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[1017] the times I've tried [...] for up to five minutes waiting for switchboard to answer |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1018] Mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1019] Yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1020] Well, [...] fairly quickly |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1021] I think |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1022] I use directory enquiries |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1023] They've got nought noughts the superintendents answer quickly |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1024] Well Frank er checking all this isn't he, he's monitoring |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1025] Is he? |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1026] it, yes it it's his brief, so I suppose we ought to feed information to him |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1027] That's right |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [clears throat] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1028] I mean who whose whose getting most of the problems, the person with the most problems is the person who puts the report in to Frank . [1029] Suddenly, it all goes quiet. [1030] But if its going to be happening on a regular basis in to Tracy, then perhaps Paul should put a report in to Frank . |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1031] One of the problems was that the type of people they recruited to man to staff the switchboard were from outside, they didn't know the force |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1032] Em |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1033] An and you take the surnames and they react to the first surname, I get race stories er calls occasionally |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1034] Oh if I ever get [...] they get both of them, like Superintendent J , well which one, can I have Mr Williams, well do you want Chief Inspector or Inspector they just bung 'em through, still same surname, but |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1035] Er yeah, it's gonna take the staff a long time to know all the names |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1036] yeah, it's inevitable isn't it |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1037] Mm |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1038] I don't get many [...] calls these days, not many |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1039] one a fortnight, one a fortnight |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1040] Thank you, get yer mail as well quite regularly for him |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1041] [...] Tracy |
| Wright (PS5MF) |
[1042] yep |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1043] And and for Mr Williamson |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1044] yeah, I get quite a bit of stuff for er |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1045] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1046] Well that's the problem, lets pull this together we've had a good grumble about telephones and mail system now |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1047] It's important though |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1048] I I I think the grumble came |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1049] you raised it didn't you |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1050] from the different sort of watches |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1051] yeah |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1052] and my comment was that before getting too sort of wound up about the way we get public [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1053] the basis is you keep going in at the wrong level it's the educational process at ground level |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1054] dealing with telephone is probably a five year plan for the whole force isn't it |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1055] It it's more than that it's it's making lads and lasses aware of what the schemes are, I mean nobody's ever said to them reaction to some of these schemes |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1056] I agree with what you're saying, but we should also look at what we do, for instance David when you go out you virtually never divert your telephone, everytime you go out ten minutes later I get up and go and divert your phone for you, if we get into the habit of diverting our phones then we we wouldn't have that problem. [1057] But your phone and Ian's yesterday and oh somebody elses ringing all morning long. |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1058] Oh I was only out twenty five minutes |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1059] David your the worst for not diverting your telephone when you go out |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1060] But that |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1061] I bet I've done it four or five times this year already |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1062] Yeah bu bu but the thing is its |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1063] You must get into the habit of diverting it yourselves, before we start shouting at everybody else |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1064] No, yes |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1065] Your phone rings and rings and rings |
| Unknown speaker (K6WPSUNK) |
[1066] Yeah but it End of tape |