| PS26H | X | m | (Ted, age unknown, Main speaker) unspecified |
| PS26J | X | u | (No name, age unknown) unspecified |
| PS26K | X | f | (Heather, age unknown) unspecified |
| PS6SV | X | u | (No name, age unknown) unspecified |
| KNFPS000 | X | u | (No name, age unknown) unspecified |
| KNFPSUNK (respondent W0000) | X | u | (Unknown speaker, age unknown) other |
| KNFPSUGP (respondent W000M) | X | u | (Group of unknown speakers, age unknown) other |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[1] My pleasure. [2] I'll introduce you to W P C Heather who's the local crime prevention officer. [3] I won't introduce the rest but th th , they're all linked and I gather that er ... you're gonna be replacing Heather in her role in the near future. |
| (PS26J) |
[4] Yes sir. [5] Thank you. |
| Ted (PS26H) |
[6] And don't worry if you see a tape recorder going er, it's actually being recorded, but just forget that it's there. [7] And ... we hope to be able to show you a video. [8] [laugh] ... We'll make that up as we go along. [9] But with that, over to you Heather. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[10] Right. [11] Okay. [12] Thanks very much. [13] Ted. [14] Those of you who snore ... will get [...] ! [15] Okay? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[16] Right. [17] Crime prevention covers a multitude of things er ... and ... we'll bring it back to what actually effects you. [18] And I think that has to be in our homes. [19] We all like to feel safe and secure in our homes, and, but do we actually think about security unless we become a victim |
| (PS6SV) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[20] How do we go about securing up our homes? [21] Do we know the areas that we should be concentrating on? [22] Most of you come from ... er ... around this area and I would, and I would probably refer to this erm, as our [...] local area because that is [...] . [23] For Harlow and the subdivisional area that we actually concentrate on, that takes in forty, or at least, no it doesn't. [24] Our crime rate erm, for burglaries is about thirty two percent ... and that's home. [25] [...] burglaries. [26] Most people that are the victim of burglaries erm decide to do [...] their security [...] . [27] But it's knowing the right things. [28] You can see lots of different security products on the market and [...] . [29] It doesn't have to in actual fact. [30] But you start, or we like to start ... at the front door ... of what we call [...] . [31] Now how many amongst you have just got that on your front door? [32] A lock like that? [33] Yeah? [34] Nothing else? [35] Just that? [36] That's it. [37] [...] . Okay. [38] This in actual fact is called an automatic free latch |
| Ted (PS26H) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[39] you all know it by Yale, Legg, whatever the company make is. [40] It isn't actually a security lock. [41] It never was designed to be one. [42] It's an easy lock for you to come in and out of your houses with. [43] This is only as good as the screws holding it in place ... in your front door. [44] A simple credit card slipped down there is sufficient rebate between the door frame, and the actual lock itself ... can open one of these types of locks showing no signs of forced entry. [45] You won't even know somebody's been into your houses. [46] ... Most houses are fitted with these ... but it's up to you as individuals to actually look and see, er, if that's sufficient. [47] If that is all you've got ... even with a double lock, locking action it is ... very easy to open up. [48] What we'd like you to do and to consider, and I'll come on to replacement [...] soon, is to consider supplementing it ... with one of these types of locks. [49] Many different makes. [50] Chubb is probably one of the most commonest. [51] This is a mortice lock. [52] A five lever mortice dead lock. [53] This is a security lock. [54] You would probably see them on front doors and perhaps some of you have already got them, where about a third of the way up is a little brass plate, and it's an integral lock that's fitted into the door. [55] The reason that these are a security lock is there are security features built into it. [56] The leverage on a lock depends on the, the type of combination. [57] This one is a five lever, which is probably the most standard. [58] It is a made to a British standard which you can tell when you buy anything like that by the kite mark on the side. [59] This one has got five levers ... and the levers are these things here that you can see in the casing. [60] They're set into a set combination. [61] There are up to a thousand differs of keys bought with these types of locks. [62] So every one in a thousand key, might actually fit this type of lock but it's highly unlikely. [63] It's got a steel bolt with two steel rollers in there, so that if, even somebody tried to hacksaw their way through that ... it will just slide along as soon as. [64] They're very, very [...] to open. [65] They won't, the burglar is more likely to seriously damage the frame than the actual lock. [66] They cost about ... we reckon seventeen to twenty five pounds to buy ... and they have to be fitted to a door one and three quarter inches thick. [67] If you're good at do-it-yourself, then fine, have a go, if you're not ... this particularly applies to the gents, swallow your pride and get somebody in to do it for you. [68] Please do not do ... er ... what a young man did the other day ... went to his house, he was the victim of a burglary, he very proudly announced that he'd fitted one of these locks to his front door ... when we saw how he'd fitted it, he'd actually chiselled out the majority of the side of his door [...] in and filled it up with Polyfilla! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[69] Erm, we did tell him that ... obviously he'd |
| Ted (PS26H) |
[70] That might help [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[71] [...] Yes! [72] [laugh] ... He also fitted it ... at the top end of the door. [73] Now, if you've got nowhere else, erm, at the bottom end of the door to fit it, that's fine, but ... as a matter of a preference, Crime Prevention like to see them fitted a third of the way up the door, that is where our thieves put the boot in, and thieves will work to pressure points, to leverage points ... they come equipped, or most of them don't come equipped, because obviously if they're walking along the street and a police officer sees them, you know, pull them over and start to talk to them, most of them will actually ... er use the tools from the back garden or or things they find lying around to help themselves in. [74] Now that's all very well having one of those, if you've got a nice solid wood door to fit it to, but if you're looking at the new replacement P V C doors erm, afterwards you can't fit that type of lock because the actual structure of the door won't take it. [75] So how do you secure up one of those doors? [76] Any of you got that problem? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[77] Yes. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[78] Well ... well actual fact, unless it's done, the security's fitted at the time of manufacture you can actually serious damage the framing. [79] And I wouldn't suggest you, you tamper with it, er, because if you do damage the framework of it you've got no redress from the company. [80] Some aluminium doors will take extra security device. [81] But that is where you need to get a a specialist locksmith in to actually assess the framing of the door. [82] Cos on the new P V C doors, most of the security is down one side, you've got what I call multi-locking surface. [83] Some of you, you might have seen them, where you've got a number of bolts that shoot into the top from the side of the frame ... and the whole thing ... operates at the turn of a key. [84] It's very good if that, that's in place, but you have to also make sure that the, the screws on the hinge side are fitted correctly as well. [85] Cos I had an occasion where I had a, a replacement door ... it was my own house [...] and they ripped off half the screws. [86] And if you think of a the main fabric of them, they're quite flimsy. [87] And there have been occasions now where ... our local police, certainly, and that er frees areas and just knock the back of the [...] . [88] So, do choose very carefully if you're thinking of having replacement glazing and doors. [89] Every house has weak areas ... you can probably identify them yourselves, and so can burglars. [90] If I was gonna break into a ... into, you know, my house how would I do it? [91] And there are obvious points to watch isn't there? [92] The back and the sides for instance. [93] Burglars like to work unseen and unheard. [94] They like the coverage of foliage to, to work at night. [95] As I say, they will use the things that are in your back garden. [96] So security extends not only from, the home, but onto the garden shed as well. [97] If you've got a flat roof for instance, if you've got sun loungers in the [...] side, well you just stack those up [...] to the level of, levels of your [...] . [98] And one of the most common entrances into houses is by a small fan light window. [99] As soon as they can get their head and shoulders through, they're in! [...] double glazing conservatories is one of the best deterrents. [100] [...] . Security is like a game of chess, and our thieves are sort of like one move ahead of us, or vice-versa as the case might be. [101] The window locks, which there are many, many different types to choose from ... are now not the deterrent they were. [102] And if you have, are sort of screwed on and they're put underneath erm, until you sort of, [...] type locks cos anything else [...] . [103] But how do you be really [...] , how do you not scare yourselves from going out? [...] gonna return to your homes and that everything's going to be left as it was? [104] It's a question of having to deal with the truth. [105] Making it as difficult as possible for them to come in by setting up barriers ... doing things, perhaps a at night, putting like some timer switches ... in the rooms that you're likely to be sitting in. [106] You'd be surprised the number of people that will leave, still, just the one singular light in the hallway. [107] Nobody sits in their for eight hours of an evening! [108] So put it i , put a light on in a room that you will actually be in. [109] Adjust the curtains. [110] You cannot odds against the free newspapers coming through your doors, they're a pain to all of us! [111] But we as crime prevention officers regularly meet with erm ... the newspaper people to say can you make sure your staff push them through the letter boxes and they assure us that the ... er, the next thing on their list to prioritize ... but it doesn't happen. [112] And you must have gone through in your own neighbourhood where you see papers sticking out of letter bo boxes, milk left on the front door step. [113] They are the tell-tale signs that the someone is not in. [114] An extension of that is good neighbourhood. [115] Are any of you involved in Neighbourhood Watch? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[116] Mm. [117] Yes |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[118] Offer that to you, do you think they neighbourhood work, watch works? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[119] Er ... [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[120] before, before they set it up really. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[121] Yes. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[122] You might get the o , the odd one or two that are always looking out their windows and lo , they would do that in any case. [123] No I, I don't really se |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[124] That's a good idea [...] |
| (KNFPS000) |
[125] I don't necessarily think it does. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[126] I, inadvertently |
| Heather (PS26K) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[127] went out of the house to go to [...] , shut the door and realized I'd left my cars in the house. [128] The only window open was at the back [...] , so I had to break into [laughing] my own house [] through there, I managed it. [129] And, full expecting at any time perhaps to hear the er ... siren, sort of police car, but there wasn't any. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[130] No. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[131] Erm ... alright ... perhaps somebody said, you know, what's going on there, I wouldn't be surprised [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[132] Cos you were |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[133] Yeah. [134] But I I'm ... I was rather disappointed that nothing had happened. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[135] Unfortunately Neighbourhood Watch is only as good what people [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[136] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[137] doing about it. [138] Erm, that is joint effort, not only with yourselves, but for the police as well. [139] And when you've got a good Neighbourhood Watch this is so, and you'll find that they are very efficient. [140] We've had some good successes with them. [141] It's also, depending on how much information you get ... because it should be a two way er communication. [142] Most Neighbourhood Watches should supply regular news letters and information via local beat officers. [143] And if that doesn't happen in your watches then that's something that needs to be addressed. [144] Er, on an average here we sent out a newsletter once every month and we have things called a crime line which is an answerphone service updated every week with all of our crimes [...] on it. [145] So people ... have rung in on this direct line to find out what's going on and things appertaining that could be useful to them. [146] And we found that it's starting to erm pay dividends. [147] But it took us a long time to actually get to that stage ... because er, the police are at fault, the police launch these schemes and they go away and say get on with it and off we go |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[148] And no follow up. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[149] no follow up. [150] And it's a fault that we recognized. [151] So if I can just break it down. [152] The best deterrent against house burglaries at the moment is an alarm system. [153] But actually, even with an alarm system you must have gone through where you've heard alarms ringing all day and nobody's been [...] . [154] Er ... if it's at night time it annoys you, cos if all ring your neighbours they're not gonna [laughing] be so friendly [] if your alarm's ringing forever and a day and ... you know, it's disturbing your sleep. [155] It's important if you consider having an alarm ... you cultivate your neighbours. [156] You don't have to tell them your business, but what you do have to say is, I've got an alarm system, an audible system, so bells only, if you hear it going off can you ring the home station? [157] It might be a bit more [...] than that and can actually scare off. [158] If you don't tell anybody ... nobody's going to react to that until it starts to annoy them, because most people think that everybody else is going to do something about it. [159] It's like the car alarm, isn't it? [160] You hear them going off. [161] The only time we really react to them is when, perhaps, it's on our car ... we don't them to disturb anybody and you're trying to fumble about with your keys and switch the thing off. [162] If you've got an alarm ... which is faulty and repeatedly goes off then, nine times out of ten, you ought to switch the thing off [...] in the first place. [163] And I think there was a local radio article er ... a couple of days ago that said that ... car alarms do not work any more ... house alarms do ... providing you've got good neighbours to respond to it. [164] The prices of alarms, as well, you'd be quite surprised ... they do not range from a thousand. [165] It might cost you ... a thousand pounds if you live in a ... a huge ... detached house ... and in the back of building you've got lots of rooms. [166] But the average of hou , price for a house alarm ranging from about two hundred and seventy five pounds. [167] Now if you had to have all the locks changed in your house, that probably come out ... on an even [...] . [168] A true locksmith is quite expensive. [169] But, the responsibility for your own house is down to you. [170] It's something that ... not a lot of people take notice of, as I say, until they become a victim of it. [171] Or it might be your neighbours have become victims of crime and you suddenly see it could happen to you. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[172] Yeah, sorry I was going to ... ah er do, do you find that er ... the criminals are ... not taking notice of alarms off now because they know that people will be |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[173] House alarms or car alarms? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[174] Er, house alarms. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[175] A , the ... house alarms |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[176] I mean a |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[177] I think |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[178] thought initially that maybe maybe alarms, okay you can come and go, but erm |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[179] Yeah. [180] Most thieves are not in that league. [181] They would rather go and burgle a house that isn't alarmed, erm ... because they don't know what type of alarm you've got there. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[182] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[183] Yes they can ... erm, distinguish between what I call a do-it-yourself alarms and th the recognized companies. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[184] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[185] But at the end of the day they aren't in that league cos most thieves are opportunists ... they seize a common opportunity that is presented to them ... by [...] or it could be they've actually just watched her go out and more of a chance [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[186] But if they set it off without, without noticing that you've gone like ... [...] . [187] They are |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[188] That's |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[189] likely to be, they're not gonna go, they're gonna, say the people next door, they're not gonna take any notice of it. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[190] No. [191] Most |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[192] Not |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[193] most of the time |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[194] That's right. [195] Most of the time actually, if they do set them off, they scarper. [196] They don't want to be around. [197] Erm ... they don't want to draw attention to themselves. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [clears throat] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[198] There are many different ways that they operate. [199] I mean, one of the commonest things we have in this area is with the bogus officials ... who pretend to be something they're not. [200] And none of us like to thing we've been conned. [201] It happens so easily. [202] You know, the water board er er it's all the same ones that we hear on th on the television, and it still happens! [203] They still get away with it. [204] Now, the classic example is from water boards, they'll have two people ... and they'll say, can we test your water pressure please? [205] One will stay with you ... all the time watching what he's doing ... and the other one goes upstairs ... [...] , while he's left alone, and in that short space of time they can actually [...] . [206] And [...] . [207] They nab easily saleable items that they can push out through boot sales, that type of thing, where they can really make the money. [208] So how can you, what can you do to protect your [...] ? [209] Any ideas? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[210] Well I I think one of the greatest deterrents that one can have is the copper on the beat. [211] You never see |
| Ted (PS26H) |
[212] Yes. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[213] one! |
| Ted (PS26H) |
[214] No. [215] I think we're talking about |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[216] We never see |
| Ted (PS26H) |
[217] our own homes. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[218] Well |
| Ted (PS26H) |
[219] But we |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[220] It is a deterrent really. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[221] Well I know but I'm talking about, with break ins, I mean, people are a ... a I think are getting on with it ... and there's no deterrent for ... the |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[222] A lone ... beat officer, as you call it, I think it has erm ... a cosmetic |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [clears throat] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[223] effect to be honest with you. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[224] Oh I think it does! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[225] Erm ... people ... tend to relate back er and think that in theory it's a nice welfare thing, and it's nice for the community, and they do sterling work, don't get me wrong, because I think they are a vital part of a community ... but, how much of a deterrent they are ... er, we are, we are unable to measure. [226] And i it's not where, you've got the case where beat officers before erm, used to be able to clip ... erm ... people round the ear and things like that, they're not allowed to do that now, those days have long gone. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[227] But I, I think |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[228] And erm |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[229] there's a psychological as aspect in some so much that if they think that a policeman is gonna walk round the corner ... er, they're not so keen on doing it. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[230] Yeah. [231] Well |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[232] But I mean, we we've got a situation where we are, I mean, our estate's quiet, very quiet ... and and, you know, you get the impression that, you know, they can do it without fear or favour, you know,th they know that no one 's going to disturb them ... it's very quiet there |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[233] Mm. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[234] and we we've always thought that, you know, to have a beat officer that was going around that could perhaps turn up at any time, would at least be some deterrent ... in so much that |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[235] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[236] the people think that they can do it undisturbed. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[237] Okay. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[238] They do, and that's what they, I mean, but they could also wait until he went round that corner and then go and burgle a house. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[239] Right. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[240] That's the other thing, they'd quite often would work to what we call [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[241] But I mean,su surely that that's better than none at all? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[242] It is. [243] Unfortunately, and it, perhaps |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [clears throat] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[244] it's the wrong choice of words, but beat officers are in actual fact, a luxury at the moment ... because if you call the police |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[245] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[246] you want a police to come as soon as possible, and you want to, to deal with it because it's a priority to you. [247] Now police forces have to grade their to to things, we get the immediate response, the nine nine nine calls, and then so on. [248] Where beat officers come into play is where you've got the non-urgent, what we call, the traffic, the non-urgent jobs, erm, where people can afford, maybe a couple of hours, it might be that they have to wait until the beat officer gets on duty ... could be ... a day or so's time ... and they they do do an awful lot of work, and it's an ongoing thing. [249] Erm ... if you just liken it, I mean I was a beat officer here for eight years ... and the sorts of things that you'd come on duty ... erm to see, are ... you may, you might get the nutty woman, who who er, you reoccur and you have to go and see her and you ge , erm, but all the shift members can then pass that to the beat officer. [250] It might be the domestic disputes. [251] I, I take what yo you say because I I'm in favour of beat officers, but |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[252] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[253] most people want a quick response, so they would want then, the police officers in the cars that can get there within half an hour, at the latest ... to deal with their parti , particular problem. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[254] And as I say, it's it's ... not measurable to find out how much of a deterrent they are. [255] I mean, they don't just sort of walk there, they have school visits and things like that to do, as well. [256] So they are ... in touch with their community and they do ... for the most part, know what's going on, on their beat. [257] But I mean, we have got nine beat officers for the whole of the Harlow Town area ... and just th , this area ... this is the start of ... what we call our beat eight ... this is the boundary along Southern Way, and that goes down as far ... are familiar with the area of Staple Tye ... most of you? [258] It's quite a distance. [259] All this side of the road is one officer's area ... that they have to cover on foot. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[260] See we we have an awful lot of problems, I mean, not only ... the question of breaking into one's home ... things like, car parking or ... things of a very high accident risk ... whereas, if we had a beat officer, at least we could set up some sort of local liaison, in so much that we could tell him about our sort of problems, and perhaps between us, resolve them. [261] But we haven't yet |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[262] But have you found out , have you got a beat officer? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[263] No. [264] I've never seen one. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[265] But have you found out whether you've actually got one? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[266] They reckon there's supposed to be one allocated, but no one 's ever seen him. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[267] Why don't you ask to speak to him? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[268] We'll have to. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[269] Mm. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[270] We'll have to. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[271] See, it also takes members of the public to phone in. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[272] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[273] People are quite often scared and think they don't want to bother the police ... we are human beings, we only bite on Thursdays, we're regularly fed and watered |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[274] erm ... but, at the end of the day we [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[275] But, there i there is a general consensus of opinion that if a, a policeman a happens to venture onto our estate, the instant reaction is, quick! [276] Get a camera! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[277] Yeah. [278] I mean |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[279] I'd be a very rich woman |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[280] And it's a general , it's a general consensus |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[281] That's right. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[282] of opinion |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[283] It is. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[284] unfortunately, nearly everybody says exactly the same. [285] And we all believe ... each and every one of us, that ... if there was a, a much ... er, stronger police presence,i if ... I mean, a bobby |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[286] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[287] it would help a great deal. [288] At least it would give us some sort of contact. [289] We have got a ludicrous situation in our estate because it is very quiet. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[290] Whereabouts do you live? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[291] Up at Shenfield |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[292] Right. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[293] Where, unfortunately, ladies er, won't go out of a night time because they're frightened ... whereas, we're looking for a little bit of a reassurance. [294] Someone we can speak to, you know. [295] True, I take your point, I mean I, perhaps I could dig a little bit deeper and find out what the Dickens is going on, you know! [296] But we never ever |
| Heather (PS26K) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[297] se , we never ever see a policeman. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[298] But that also is the case, I mean er er, a lot of time th the actual design of our houses doesn't lend itself for us to actually look even if you're ... you're permanently looking out the window. [299] I mean I can ... [...] , have to say [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[300] It's true. [301] Our our our living quarters are on the back |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[302] At the back. [303] Yeah. [304] That's right, so you wouldn't see anyone. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[305] Our bedroom's are on the front. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[306] You know. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[307] So Neighbourhood Watch really goes out the picture. [308] The only thing that we do, and we've always done it without Neighbourhood Watch, we always make a point of telling one another when we're gonna be away for any period of time. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[309] That's just an extension from that, although it is basically neighbourhood watch |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[310] Oh yes! [311] Same sort of thing really. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[312] isn't it? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[313] Same sort o , but it is difficult when you're allied to a neighbourhood watch, when the living quarters are on the rear of the ... the accommodation. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[314] That's right. [315] And it, it is, and |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[316] We can't see what's going on there. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[317] because be being separate from all of you, and to make sure that your ... you know, because your problems are gonna be your neighbours problems. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[318] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[319] Let's face it, we're quite selfish in the fact that we want to ensure that the area that we live in ... is safe for us ... and not too concerned that three or four estates down the road unless it starts to affect us [...] . [320] We don't want the problems on our own doorstep ... cos when the chips are down, we like to go home, and we like to feel safe ... and if somebody's entered your premises as an intruder then all of a sudden your security [...] ... been taken away. [321] It takes an awful long time for you to regain that and to feel safe in your own homes. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[322] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[323] So, if you do nothing else today, I'd like you to go home and assess the risk areas on your own individual houses. [324] And have you actually [...] ? [325] If you haven't, then, you ought to phone your local beat officer and get him to come along and give you a survey |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[326] I , I, I have phoned the police on numerous occasions ... and I must say, there isn't a great deal of response. [327] Will, oh, it's all the response I get, we're far too busy ... we haven't got the manpower ... you know, er |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[328] Well eventually they will have. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[329] a and this, this happens, you know. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[330] And that's the time to tackle it. [331] I mean, I could come up |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[332] I've even, I've even |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[333] with the same excuse as that. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[334] I even sat on the local erm ... committee wi with the police authority, you know, and er ... we've got all sorts of promises but nothing that has ever materialized. [335] When we query it, lack of manpower, lack of resources, lack of money. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[336] Well, we've got more police officers now than we've ever had before, we're not gonna get any more because, I mean, Essex Police Force, is quite a a rich one ... but I think, sort of, on recruitment, they've alre , probably due to get about fifty extra officers ... but that's [...] . [337] Which doesn't sound a lot from, er such a rural county, erm, but I mean, you know, obviously erm ... that is quite a lot, in terms because ... you are the people that are having to pay for it. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[338] Yeah. [339] Do you think perhaps the problem is that, through no fault of their own, they spend far too much time in the police station doing other work perhaps, than going out on the beat? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[340] They're trying to cut that down, I mean, we have now, what is called, station officer's assistants and most police forces have them ... where they're |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[341] civilian employees who ... do certain jobs to relieve the P C so that he can go back out onto the streets. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[342] Yeah. [343] Compiling reports and goodness knows what else! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[344] Unfortunately , every thing you do in police force has got to be |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[345] Gotta have |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[346] reported. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[347] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[348] And, that, it hasn't changed, in a very long while. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[349] Well I mean I'm er that wasn't meant as a criticism |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[350] No. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[351] that was meant as, as ... a bit sympathy [laughing] if you like, you know th [] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[352] But erm ... yeah |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[353] sort of, the things that they have to do apart from fighting crime! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[354] Yes, but then |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[355] Then |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[356] I mean, you know ... there are things that we need to address ... in-house, to make sure that we give you er, an efficient service. [357] And, like you say, if you're not |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[358] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[359] getting the response, if you're getting that type of ... excuse that comes out, then that's when ... you need to go back to them and say, well hang on, this is not good enough! [360] I want a response! [361] Alright, I'm prepared to wait depending ... you won't wait on a, a nine nine nine call, if it is |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[362] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[363] an urgent call because that's got to take priority ... erm, but for other responses, then follow it up, don't just |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[364] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[365] accept it. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[366] Well I, I, as I say, I did follow it up and in fact, I even went to a committee where I sat and spoke to the er ... the police face to face ... and they made all sorts of promises but nothing materialized. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[367] Oh well, you'll have to stake it out again. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[368] Now I did bring a film along for you see and I'm hoping ... that it's going to work. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [clears throat] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[369] But it just highlights some of the points erm ... it is ... humorous, so I hope that you enjoy it. [370] And, it just shows you how easy it is to leave signs for the thief ... to tell him that we're out. [371] ... This is where the technical bit always goes wrong even when |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[372] Now is that done, that's tuned it right? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[373] Yeah. |
| Ted (PS26H) |
[374] Try channel three. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[375] [whispering] Going to switch it off [] . [376] It's normally eight. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[377] [whispering] [...] [] . |
| Ted (PS26H) |
[378] [whispering] [...] [] . |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[379] That's right. |
| Ted (PS26H) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[380] I don't think we should put them through. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [cough] |
| (PS26J) |
[381] Course it's a , talking, the only thing I can say, what you're saying about your erm ... problem in your area ... that, do you know if there's any crime actually committed on your estate? [382] Is there a lot of crime ... [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[383] Oh no! [384] No! [385] We don't get a lot |
| (PS26J) |
[386] No. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[387] really. [388] I think we've, being a target, we've lived in which is ... since nineteen seventy three, I think we've had about three break ins. |
| (PS26J) |
[389] So no |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[390] It's quite small really. |
| (PS26J) |
[391] which, which goes to show that ... maybe the officer, er saying maybe, I'm only throwing suggestions over there, cos I don't know Shenfield |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[392] Yeah. |
| (PS26J) |
[393] that well, maybe the officer, the local beat officer ... has got a problem estate ... that he has to ... pinpoint and has to be there, or ... an area ... where the crime is being committed ... to try and deal with |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[394] He's probably up in our estate! |
| (PS26J) |
[395] that, or, prevent that, whereas he knows that little estate ... round the corner, I know they look after themselves. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[396] Well why, why leave it totally [...] ? |
| (PS26J) |
[397] Well, I'm probably |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[398] You know! |
| (PS26J) |
[399] that's only a suggestion. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[400] The only trouble is |
| (PS26J) |
[401] I'm only saying that ... but yes, I I I take your point, er, as I say, I'm currently ... er a neighbourhood beat officer, I'm gonna ... become the crime prevention officer very shortly ... but ... I can go on estates like and they say, I haven't seen you for ages! [402] I said but ... there's been nothing around here |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[403] Quite honestly |
| (PS26J) |
[404] I monitor it |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[405] Mm. |
| (PS26J) |
[406] by looking what the crime ra , who's |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[407] But I I'd |
| (PS26J) |
[408] around |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[409] I'd love someone like you to come around so I can come up to you and say ... this close is, er hello Geoff! [410] You know |
| (PS26J) |
[411] Well yeah I |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[412] If you've got a problem we we're [...] . |
| (PS26J) |
[413] I'm very human , I do , and that's how I [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[414] And some old dear old lady fell out, off the edge of the kerb |
| (PS26J) |
[415] That's right! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[416] because someone's parking right up the pavement. |
| (PS26J) |
[417] Over a cu , over a cup of tea, I could get a lot of information from you by saying |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[418] But there is, there is, there is |
| (PS26J) |
[419] what's happening and various things. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[420] but there is literally no one that we can talk to like that. |
| (PS26J) |
[421] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[422] I mean, if we've got problems with, with with house protection, you know. |
| (PS26J) |
[423] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[424] But there's no one we can talk to, you know. |
| (PS26J) |
[425] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[426] Cos you must have a local of crime prevention officer. |
| (PS26J) |
[427] There must be one somewhere. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[428] Well we have got one but I don't believe I've ever seen him. |
| (PS26J) |
[429] All you can say is could I make ... could I make an appointment to see you? [430] And he says leave that to the local station, and say, can you leave a message with him to phone me back please. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[431] It doesn't, it doesn't happen. |
| (PS26J) |
[432] I don't ever, you see I'm I'm erm |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[433] [laughing] It doesn't happen like that [] ! |
| (PS26J) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[434] I've I've I've phoned on numerous occasions. [435] I er, I'll give you a classic example, I erm ... [...] and my wife was with me |
| (PS26J) |
[436] Aha. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[437] for many years and I wheeled her around in a, in a |
| (PS26J) |
[438] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[439] chair for that five years ... and, there were constantly people ... parking on the pavements, which necessitate you [...] |
| (PS26J) |
[440] That's right, yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[441] once or twice she were nearly no ,ne or the pair of us nearly got knocked down! [442] Anyway, I phoned up the station and I said, you know, I've never seen anybody on the station, is there anybody could come and have a look at this ... because I'm sure we're gonna have a fatality before long, because, in my case it's my wife, it could be children who are playing there! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[443] Oh sure! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[444] And they said, well I'm sorry ... you know, er ... take the numbers of the cars, they want me to go round and take the numbers of the cars, phone them back and we will see if we've got someone that we can send down there! [445] Well that's not the sort of liaison |
| (PS26J) |
[446] Well, yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[447] that I want! |
| (PS26J) |
[448] Yeah. [449] That's very poor management I would say, I'd be asking that bloke [...] spoke to? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[450] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[451] But this actually happened! |
| (PS26J) |
[452] Yeah, I dare say it did. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[453] Ah hee. |
| (PS26J) |
[454] Well yes. [455] That's, that's how well he's talking to [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[456] I don't think it doesn't look like we've managed to sort to that out |
| (PS26J) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[457] so I'll move on. [458] The other way, I mean, we can ... could actually try and help is to postcode your property ... I don't know if any of you have done that? [459] But by simple ... erm, use of an ultra violet pen, using your postcode, followed by the door number or an abbreviation of the house name ... er,i that makes it identifiable. [460] The postcode is broken down into, obviously figures and numbers, C M's, denotes sort of the Chelmsford area, or for whatever it might be in yo in your area, then you'll come down to either ... twenty, eighteen, whatever that is. [461] It actually comes down to then, a more local area ... could be eighteen to twenty into Harlow, and then as you break down into the other figures, that then comes into a road ... and a postcode will actually go down to about fifteen houses in total, by putting your door number at the end of it, it makes it identifiable to your premises. [462] That is the recognized form of marking for property nationally. [463] All police forces will be able to check erm, if they, sort of find your video in the boot of somebody's car, they'll be able to check if it's marked. [464] All you do, is you mark it on an item ... if you're gonna do the television do not do the screens, because every time you turn on up will come your postcode. [465] Nor, do the back, because that can be removed ... you put it on a surface, the side or underneath that cannot be removed, and on a surfaces that's not ... regularly dusted and polished ... because eventually it will wear off. [466] The other thing you cannot mark is compact discs |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[467] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[468] because they scan on ultra violet light ... and as one our P C's found out to his cost, he ruined a hundred and fifty pounds worth of compact disc ... cos he got rather carried away with [...] ... and of course, it can't be cleaned off! [469] We know that one as well. [470] Okay? [471] So don't mark compact discs. [472] But it is an easy way of making your property identifiable. [473] And as you're doing that ... make an inventory of sort of, items that have got serial numbers ... erm, so that if ... you do lose anything you've got a quick reference there for your insurance company. [474] Most insurance companies now will specify, if you've had a burglary, the types of locks [...] ... and they are now getting quite hot on it and they want good basic security of homes. [475] So you've gotta go away, think like burglars, and think how easy is it, would it be for me to break into my own home? [476] And if it takes you a matter of seconds, you really need to address your security. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[477] Well the er, the [...] about that, when you said mark pieces of property |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[478] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[479] ya, [laugh] , it, it's probably gonna be stolen anyway! [480] The thief doesn't know whether it's been marked, cos usually they take ... in practise, what could the police be able to do? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[481] Well what we do is, if we ... if we know you've been burgled |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[482] Aha. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[483] we then [...] ... we, we regularly scout sort of all of the market stalls, the boot |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[484] Oh. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[485] sales ... and we go over things. [486] If we find property that we're, we're not happy with ... then all we've got to do is get it under ultra violet because all police forces do that ... and up will come the post code. [487] Now most people can struggle to know their postcode, but you know might know yours. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[488] Mhm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[489] I know your [...] , but er, they ought to ... and therefore, you know, that is how we trace it. [490] Th the one mark that we can trace. [491] Some property you're not gonna get back. [492] You see, on programmes like Crime Watch U K, where ... erm they've got these Aladdin's caves on all these stolen items that can never be returned to their owners, it's very, very difficult to sort of mark silverware and things like that without devaluing it? [493] Ultra violet is one of the easiest ways. [494] If it's jewellery it's harder, it will show up, erm ... if you're marking things like ... engagements rings, then the best thing to do is actually take photographs of them ... with a ruler or some sort of erm ... comparison of the size of the item ... cos if you do like a ... a ring on a photograph it's gonna, it's gonna come out like a [...] , so if you got a ruler to say, you know, it's only sort of one and a half inches in ... width or whatever, then we can actually get a clear picture ... of, of that. [495] But with that, I have to stress, do not snap away merrily at all your valuables and then take your film into Boots or Supersnaps or whatever with all your details on it, because you don't know who works there and who's going to pick up that ... and [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[496] And just, [...] . [497] You'll either have to use a polaroid instamatic camera ... and, or, go to a re ... a reputable photographer ... and make sure you get the negatives back. [498] The sort of larger items ... the police have property marking kits that they're quite willing to lend out to people, or alternatively, you can hire them out on your library card, and ... you can dye stamp those or engrave them. [499] And if you're going to do thin ... metal objects or a sort of aluminium frame, do not use the dye stamps on those. [500] And all that is is a hammer and stamp and er ... and they have a habit of buckling ... because we regularly, erm ... postcode cycles ... erm, with the introduction of the mountain bike ... we found that ... on the weaker frames we were buckling them. [501] And a mountain bike is quite expensive to replace! [502] Erm, because they range from sort of anywhere from two hundred and fifty pounds ... erm, in excess of a thousand, so we now, as a matter of course, always engrave them. [503] But it's exactly the same you just use the postcode. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[504] Do you, do you think the N P stickers that go on the ... doors or windows is a deterrent to burglars? [505] [...] N P, do you think it deters them? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[506] At one time it did displace crime. [507] I still think that [...] neighbourhood watches does ... what we're doing is we're pushing it out to Hertfordshire and the Metropolitan area and they're trying to push it elsewhere, and then, you know, we're just |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[508] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[509] pushing it away. [510] But it won't deter the real ... erm |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[511] Thief. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[512] professional thief. [513] But those are few and far between. [514] Most of them are opportunists, most of them ... come from the local area ... they'll know the housing estates and whatever happens [...] . [515] They've already chosen their set routes. [516] They're familiar with the ground. [517] And there are many ... contributing factors as to why er somebody turns to a life of crime, er, which is another ... argument, which I'm not gonna get involved with. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[518] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[519] Erm ... but, we are getting more and more opportunists lately. [520] You know only ... as I say, it's made easy for them. [521] It's like, sort of thefts of motor vehicles, we can reduce the theft of the actual vehicle, because there are security devices now to do that, to make it harder ... and you cannot odds ... somebody coming along the street, throwing a brick through a window and grabbing your cassette out. [522] It takes a matter of seconds, and by the time the police have actually received the call, they're on route, they've gone. [523] Most people are also scared to get involved now, because of the reprisals ... if they've actually reported some, to er, to a crime and you can a , understand that. [524] I can understand that they don't want to get, to ... to go through the rigmarole of court. [525] But the o , other thing is, you know, do you let these people get away with it? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[526] It's a matter for you as individuals isn't it ... if you witness something? [527] But we haven't got a crystal ball, we don't know what's going on, unless you tell us ... cos we are relying on members of the public telling us things, saying that they've witnessed things ... what you saw. [528] And ... that's a very difficult thing again, because most people's idea of description is different. [529] We have a di , a different picture, and we make up erm ... pictures like you see o on these crime programmes, the videofits of suspects, you've all seen them where th , you know ... got the lines between the nose and, and the mouth ... they are made up of ... the information that we've gained from witnesses. [530] As I say, but if there's ... I mean, how tall do you think I am sir? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[531] I dunno, about ... five foot seven, eight? [532] Five foot eight? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[533] Well that's very flattering. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[534] Five foot five? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[535] Five foot five? [536] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[537] Five foot three to five foot four, five four. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[538] Right. [539] Some of you might have taken into consideration the heel on my shoe. [540] I'm actually five foot four |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[541] I can't see that. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[542] so you're all wrong! [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[543] I said five foot four! [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[544] [laugh] ... Erm |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[545] It's only a foot! [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[546] Yeah, it's only a foot. [547] That's right. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[548] [laughing] That foot [] ! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[549] And in , when we look for distinguishing marks on people |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[550] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[551] hair colour changes, size change, and you know, we'll say |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [whispering] [...] [] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[552] well what did the person look like? [553] Well he had brown hair! [554] Well there's many different shades of brown, you know. [555] What was he wearing? [556] Jeans. [557] You know! [558] What was he wearing on his feet? [559] Trainers. [560] White. [561] Can you imagine, we have to try and make out a picture of that! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[562] Yeah. [563] Oh could you? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[564] Mm. [565] But, surely, coming back to the [...] a highly [...] say I didn't do it. [566] I knew a chap on the police force and pretty irritant and ... pure walking around the [...] like each day, trying to see if there's any [...] ... [...] . |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[567] Well they can |
| (PS26J) |
[568] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[569] but individuals have a responsibility for crime as well, because the ownership of, of crime problems is not just the police, it's down to the community in which that ... the people live. [570] And this is probably the hardest [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[571] Well surely we're trying to do this in the way of neighbourhood watch [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[572] That's one of the ways, certainly. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[573] Couldn't you have a ... yo yo say |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[574] And with with |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[575] you want more more |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[576] they want it both sides of the coin don't they? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[577] you see the officer walking, walking around ... in pairs [...] continually, not ... [...] and ... if you're gonna be paid extra for it, do it that way. [578] If the police can't do it then somebody else has got to! [579] I must be |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[580] Right! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[581] said! [582] To try somebody of a trainer er ... [...] . [583] Yes it's still ... I tell you yo |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[584] That's right. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[585] I don't want my house broken into in the first place. [586] I don't wanna be told that somebody ... and some remote things, like [...] which was mine, and somebody would say, well he saw it and he saw the policeman ah ... they would come, they've never catch them! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[587] No. [588] But this is, well this is |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[589] You know, I don't blame you for that. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[590] This is the starting point isn't it? [591] Rather than [...] at all, where would you be |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[592] I don't know. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[593] then? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[594] I don't know this afte , well it's it's a pretence to the [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[595] You have a responsibl , bility |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[596] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[597] of your own premises don't you? [598] And how to secure those up. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[599] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[600] Because at the end of the day you don't want somebody coming into your home. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[601] No I don't. [602] No! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[603] Well tha that's really a fro market isn't it, once everybody |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[604] That's it. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[605] takes reasonable precautions |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[606] And that's all I'm asking you to do. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[607] to the best of their ability , but I mean, I take our friend's point of view, if they're marked, I mean, what's the chances of someone breaking into a home, what's the chance of er, them ever being ... er captured? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[608] Quite a lot in actual fact! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[609] I I would, I would have thought that there's |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[610] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[611] there's many more get away with it than there is actually captured ones. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[612] There are. [613] But sooner or later they, they're going to start making mistakes ... bad mistakes, and that's when they, they come on |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[614] Come a croppers. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[615] line to ... to be caught. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[616] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[617] And then, we then we have to trace. [618] I mean, police stations regularly become full of stolen items ... and we've got nowhere to put it, and we have to have these displays erm, where we try and and trace the owners, it's a, a very difficult job, it's a very time consuming job |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[619] Yes. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[620] by marking your property at least it gives us a starting point ... especially if it's ... personal to you. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[621] I mean I, what you're saying's quite valid I mean,i if you've got a situation where you have been successful and you've got an accumulation of stuff that's been recovered from robberies, at least it gives you some method of returning it to it's previous |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[622] That's right. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[623] owners. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[624] But we're relying on you to put it on there. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[625] But, it's it's not really a deterrent, that's the point we're making isn't it? |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[626] It's it's one way because they don't want |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[627] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[628] identifiable property |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[629] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[630] because it makes it harder for them to sell. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[631] Oh it does [...] . |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[632] Mm. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[633] Who's gonna sleep at night [...] . |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[634] They won't, but we will. [635] Just, we just put our sign across it |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[636] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[637] that's the beauty of that. [638] You can visible marker your goods, but that's even less attractive, but would you want an engraved mark across one of your prize ... possessions? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[639] Well actually, I think they're more suitable [...] like that as though the insurance companies certainly don't [...] ! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[640] They will [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[641] Rather than, it's it's the sentimental value a lot of things, a lot of things [...] . |
| Heather (PS26K) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[642] You normally client cooperation [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[643] [laughing] I like that [] ! |
| (PS26J) |
[644] [...] , you might the money back. [645] That's handy, but [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[646] Is it okay? [647] Shall I ask? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[648] [laughing] Quite a lot of people don't want them back |
| (PS26J) |
[649] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[650] they've done well out the insurance [] ! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[651] They, they'd rather have the money, yeah! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[652] [...] told though that the film is going to ... to actually work now so |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[653] Don't be silly! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[654] They'll take it [...] now, you know what I mean? [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[655] [laughing] Yes [] ! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[656] Can you hear that? [playing a crime watch video] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[657] Right. [658] Okay. [659] Something else I'd just like to, I was ... actually I was erm ... aware that time is passing us by. [660] Who made the comment er, about people walking themselves [...] at night [...] ? [661] Would that be safe to say that most of [...] ? [662] ... It's becoming sort of fairly topical [...] ... erm ... where there, and it is, more perhaps related to the fear of crime than the actual crime itself, where, people are ... afraid to go out for fear that they're going to be personally attacked, whether it be ... you know, answering the door at night in their own homes, or actually, you know, going to their cars. [663] None of us like to go in poorly lit areas, it automatically raises our fear level doesn't it? [664] Or we feel unsafe. [665] And we've all been in situations where we've walked into an area, whether it be, sort of ... a car park is poorly lit, or you've gone down a lane that's perhaps been overgrown by bushes and things like that ... we generally don't feel as confident. [666] And it doesn't just apply to woman, it can apply to men as well. [667] It's not something I particularly thought an awful lot of until I came on crime prevention, because before that I was in police uniform with marked cars with the radio, although half the time in Harlow, the radios don't work cos we're getting [...] . [668] But it, it didn't worry me ... and I liked to think I can go about my daily ... life and not be frightened, and I am not gonna be frightened to go out at night. [669] [...] . But on crime prevention, I'm ... for most part in plain clothes, I use my own car work ... and, I'm not in a marked car, I don't have a radio because ... my job, as I said from the beginning is very varied and therefore it's not practical for me to have a radio. [670] So I'm out and about and quite often I go and visit people in their own homes ... out of the back and beyond of nowhere [...] cos I just called out as a result of that ... and I suddenly thought I I'm highly vulnerable to them ... I could be subject to attack like anybody else, how will I protect myself? [671] That was going to be ... erm ... [...] , well I thought well I really haven't got the answer to that. [672] So I immediately started to look into these things, which are personal attack alarms ... and it is a very basic ... er ... deterrent value. [673] Many different types on the market, but when you actually start to look into them, erm, they reveal a few things, you can see by this one it's a fairly old one, but it is for ... for demo purposes only, this is one by Polycell, it's battery operated in a plastic cases ... and it's handy because it's got a torch ... but when you actually put the alarm on ... it goes [...] ... my gadget's not working really. [674] ... Oh! [675] As you can see, the battery runs out! [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[676] So I don't think they're very good. [677] Erm ... as well as that, if you drop that, that's going to smash ... as one of my colleagues discovered. [678] I thought well, I don't favour that, I'll go and have a look at cylinder type. [679] This one is called a walk- easy ... very effective, particularly good for people with arthritic hands because ... erm ... it doesn't take an awful lot to actually press down the top. [680] But how effective is it? [681] [sets of ear piercing attacker alarm!] When you start to discover this one actually does travel through walls, the sound of it does actually does travel through walls, but as I say, it's only a temporary measure to buy yourself a little bit of time ... she says. [682] That's one on it's way out really so |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[683] But that sound would be continuously repeated. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[684] It does. [685] Yes. [686] That one actually locks on. [687] The one that I tend to use most of the time is this one ... not least, because it only three pounds, and it's quite affordable but a , again, it's got a loud sound to it, and ... I found that if you carry one of these with you and somebody does approach you, you've always got this in your pocket and you can actually aim it them, cos they don't know what you've got in your hand. [688] [sets off shrill attacker alarm] ... If you actually put that up to [...] ... near where he is it could even [...] . |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[689] [laughing] Is it [] ! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[690] [laughing] incredible isn't it [] ? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[691] [...] I like the cylindrical type. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[692] I like this because you can actually |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[693] Aha. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[694] clip it onto your clothes |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[695] It's an idea, innit? [696] Yeah. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[697] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[698] it's handy to keep in your pocket ... if you're walking the dog at night. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[699] That's a nice one. [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[700] So I thought well I'll carry one of these ... for when I'm going out in my car to which, you know, [...] and if somebody does come up to me I can use it in a positive manner while in a split second time ... for me, hopefully beca , cos of my range of work |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[701] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[702] to get out of that situation. [703] I'm not a black belt in karate, and I'm don't suppose most of you are. [704] Okay? [705] There's a whole group on me then I'm not gonna stand about ... erm ... [...] , but if it's a one on one ... I might stand a chance. [706] So I think that is certainly worth it, if not least for the ladies to consider. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[707] It's an idea. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[708] But I want to bring something |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[709] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[710] out which doesn't include the men. [711] You've probably all been in situation where you seen people zigzag across the road because they think they're being followed ... the ladies will do it because she thinks ... a bloke is following her and the men are probably thinking ... does she think I'm following her? [712] And carry on down the road. [713] It's a very difficult situation ... because nobody knows how to react. [714] Now, some men think right, I'll walk across the road ... others will think well I'll stay behind because it might be safer cos there might be somebody lurking in the corners ... none of us know quite how to react to that. [715] And you'll find that the ... it's normally the woman that takes the initiative and crosses the road which she's unsure of. [716] The idea is though, that you don't put yourselves in risk situations in the first place. [717] You don't go into areas that are poorly lit if you can help it, you don't take a short cut through the dark woods ... because it'll save you five minutes on your journey, stick in well lit,we well lit areas. [718] How many of the ladies here are drivers? [719] Right. [720] On the back er table there there's a brochure called Women at the Wheel, it's a Vauxhall ... er application ... please do take a good copy, very good application. [721] Who knows the break down,el , the procedure for break downs on motorways? [722] What you should and shouldn't do? [723] Come on gents, you should know as well! [724] Whether you stay with |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[725] your car or not? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[726] That's understandable. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[727] Lock yourself in. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[728] Stay in the car ... stay with the car and put these ... erm, motorists lights on. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[729] Stay in the car? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[730] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[731] Any advances on that? [732] Anybody think any different? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[733] Have one of those things in the car and you speak to the R A C or the A A |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[734] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[735] clearly |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[736] But if it's lady, [laughing] cos I couldn't afford one of those [] ! |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [...] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) | [laugh] |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[737] [laughing] Yeah [] ! |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[738] I know. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[739] They are expensive. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[740] Actually I think they're they're ... [...] ... well advertised for what they are. [741] No, actually, no don't sit in the car. |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[742] The nearest phone. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[743] If you're on a motorway it's, it's maybe it's before you, every mile on a motorway there is an S O S phone box ... okay? [744] When you pick up the rec , the, the hands [...] it will actually take you through to the nearest police control room area ... now, if it's on the M eleven ... then most of the calls will go into Chelmsford, our police headquarters, once you cross over the borders and go into Metropolitan area, then that goes up to the Scotland Yard in their control rooms. [745] Every telephone box has a unique telephone number, once you pick that up, it actually flashes a little signal, we can pinpoint exactly where you are. [746] Now they're not the easiest things to speak into because the noise volume of the traffic is quite horrendous so you have to shout. [747] Has anybody broken down here? [748] Anybody been through this experience before? |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[749] Yeah. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[750] [...] ... Yeah. [751] It's a horrible experience ... because the the through traffic goes so fast ... erm, so anybody who actually doesn't know quite what you have to do. [752] On the marker posts that you see, the next time you, you travel past them at ... ninety miles an hour ... if you get time to see them, there is actually, a picture of the telephone headset and a number ... under that headset there will be an arrow ... pointing you in the direction of the nearest emergency telephone. [753] If you get a post with two arrows it means you're exactly half way and you've gotta make the decision for yourselves. [754] If you break down and you can drive to the nearest one, then do so, it i if it's something like a, your wheel, or your tyre's gone down, then drive. [755] Yes, you're gonna damage your wheel, but you'll be safer that way. [756] If you've got no choice but to get out and walk then you are gonna have to do that, and that's all very well being ... a day like today, where it's not pouring down with rain ... er, you're not walking in a pitch black area, but if you do suddenly change that and you put it into those sort of, well that sort of scenario you'll find it's very, very, frightening. [757] What we have to say is, straight from Essex Police ... if that happens to you, get out, wherever possible on the passenger's side of the vehicle ... and then go to your nearest box and then you pick up the receiver and get through the police control room ... and they will ask you a series of questions, have you broken down? [758] Are you a member of a national breakdown [...] ? [759] And are you a woman on your own? [760] Cos women on their own, or with young children get priority. [761] You know, [...] . [762] That all erm came about as a result of the Marie Rivers case |
| Unknown speaker (KNFPSUNK) |
[763] Mm. |
| Heather (PS26K) |
[764] And so we do try and give priority to, to ladies on their own. [765] Given, obviously the fact that you've broken, and if you are a member of a breakdown organization they will call them out for you. [766] If you are not, and I have to stress this very carefully ... then they will call the nearest available garage ... and the garage will come there very quickly ... and they will tow you off into the nearest exit and there they will leave you ... and that can cost you probably, in excess of ninety pounds. [767] So it does pay you to be a member of R A C, National Breakdown, A A or whatever ... because at least most of them provide a service where they can take you to your destination and or arrange further transport for you. [768] So, bear that in mind cos it wi , even if it's just sort of fifty yards up the motorway, that's where they'll drop you ... then you're on your own. [769] Once you've made your call, they might ask you to stay by the phone erm, to to contact you back ... it might be that they ask you did you want anybody contacted to tell them that, that you've broken down, they will do that for you. [770] You can ask them, if it's urgent, then they will do that. [771] Then, we ask you return to the area of your car, but do not get back in ... because you run the risk of being injured ... erm, through cars ploughing into the back of you, far more than you, as much for a personal attack. [772] So that is why, being a good boy scouts, and girl guides that you are ... you are gonna put things in the car so that you're, you are prepared for wet weather, or cold weather ... erm, such as an old blanket ... or something to sit on ... er, because we like you to sit upon a bank as far away from the traffic as possible [...] |